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Thread: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

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    Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    I'm going to uni next year, and originally, I wanted to get into data science or analytics, so my plan was to do Maths&Stats for undergrad then a Masters in Data Science (or maybe Statistics). The problem is, I'm really worried about the job prospects for data scientists (especially in a small city like Perth). I would even consider trying for a quant position, but again barely any jobs for this in Perth (also, wouldn't I need a finance degree to work in banking...?)



    So suddenly I've been seriously looking into studying medicine in the hope of becoming a doctor, surgeon or other medical professional.
    My main motivations for studying med would be:

    1. The money
    2. The prestige/fame
    3. The very good job security (i.e. Great job prospects in pretty much any city in the world)



    Are these good reasons to study medicine, or should I stick to my original plan? If the latter, how could I manage to get good jobs and salaries in data science/analytics (which I think would be especially difficult in small cities).
    Last edited by BenSmithy; 18 Dec 2016 at 7:21 PM.

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Those are the 3 worst reasons to study medicine
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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    make sure you dont say any of those reasons in a med interview even if they are your true reasons for doing med, thats guaranteed to get you an instafail
    also if you didnt get into med this year studying for med will become very time consuming and is hard so unless youre passionate and adamant about doing med id stick with your first option

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Squar3root View Post
    Those are the 3 worst reasons to study medicine
    Ok...but why? From what some of my relatives and friends have told me, all 3 reasons do apply to medicine careers, right? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but GPs can make 150k-250k, and specialists/surgeons can easily make up to 300k+.

    Also, there will always be a need for doctors, no matter what city, no matter what the state of the economy is, etc.

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Ok...but why? From what some of my relatives and friends have told me, all 3 reasons do apply to medicine careers, right? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but GPs can make 150k-250k, and specialists/surgeons can easily make up to 300k+.

    Also, there will always be a need for doctors, no matter what city, no matter what the state of the economy is, etc.
    Do you even know the purpose of doctors?

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by D94 View Post
    Do you even know the purpose of doctors?
    To make money, and make relatives happy

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Ok...but why? From what some of my relatives and friends have told me, all 3 reasons do apply to medicine careers, right? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but GPs can make 150k-250k, and specialists/surgeons can easily make up to 300k+.

    Also, there will always be a need for doctors, no matter what city, no matter what the state of the economy is, etc.
    Are you willing to sacrafice a decade of your life?

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Ok...but why? From what some of my relatives and friends have told me, all 3 reasons do apply to medicine careers, right? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but GPs can make 150k-250k, and specialists/surgeons can easily make up to 300k+.

    Also, there will always be a need for doctors, no matter what city, no matter what the state of the economy is, etc.
    if you're aim is to make a lot of money, IB or something in finance would be a better idea
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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by si2136 View Post
    Are you willing to sacrafice a decade of your life?
    Isn't the actual studying portion of it only 7 years? Then the residences, internships, etc are paid, and you'd actually be working as a medical professional.

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Isn't the actual studying portion of it only 7 years? Then the residences, internships, etc are paid, and you'd actually be working as a medical professional.
    you don't make much (like from 60-80k) during intern but after completing your finance degree which is 3 years and graduating into the IB field you would be easily making upwards of 200k+
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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Squar3root View Post
    Those are the 3 worst reasons to study medicine
    Blunt but accurate. There are so many better alternatives if those are your motives.

    I can never understand why people think that a maths related degree has low job prospects - I think it's just a by-product of insular HS/Uni thinking. This is the era of big data and people with mathematics related degrees are in high demand. In terms of job safety and security I would say they are around about the same. Medicine is a safe career, but nowhere near as safe as it was in the past.
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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Ok...but why? From what some of my relatives and friends have told me, all 3 reasons do apply to medicine careers, right? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but GPs can make 150k-250k, and specialists/surgeons can easily make up to 300k+.

    Also, there will always be a need for doctors, no matter what city, no matter what the state of the economy is, etc.
    Would you rather make more money but hate what you're doing for your whole life until you retire/die or do something you love and enjoy but make average/less than doctor money? I think the latter is a better option so you aren't bored going to work for your entire life.
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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by pikachu975 View Post
    Would you rather make more money but hate what you're doing for your whole life until you retire/die or do something you love and enjoy but make average/less than doctor money? I think the latter is a better option so you aren't bored going to work for your entire life.
    Fair point, but I'm sure that you'd begin to enjoy med work at least a little bit after a few years (i.e "get used to it"). Also, there's lots of pressure to make the most of the "incredible opportunity and talent I have" (i.e. Getting a 99.90 ATAR).

    All my family+friends (they aren't asian btw) hold the mentality that "if you can do medicine and get high marks, then DO IT". They see it as a privilege to study something that leads to a high paying and secure career, and would look down upon a maths degree as a waste of talent and hard work and label it as a blown opportunity that most people dont ever get in their lives.

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Fair point, but I'm sure that you'd begin to enjoy med work at least a little bit after a few years (i.e "get used to it"). Also, there's lots of pressure to make the most of the "incredible opportunity and talent I have" (i.e. Getting a 99.90 ATAR).

    All my family+friends (they aren't asian btw) hold the mentality that "if you can do medicine and get high marks, then DO IT". They see it as a privilege to study something that leads to a high paying and secure career, and would look down upon a maths degree as a waste of talent and hard work and label it as a blown opportunity that most people dont ever get in their lives.
    We can't force you to make decisions, your choice if you want to do med or not.

    But just don't regret it.

    If you have self-awareness, you must be thinking that there must be a point if there are many people objecting you on doing medicine when you're the only one who supports it.

    Reputation is not as important as you think it is.
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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    as kiraken once said

    "when you're sticking your hand up someone's ass feeling their prostate, prestige is the last thing you are worrying about"
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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Squar3root View Post
    Those are the 3 worst reasons to study medicine
    yeah
    Fuck
    OP would end up killing himself


    Quote Originally Posted by si2136 View Post
    Are you willing to sacrafice THE REST of your life?
    ftfy

    If you were to be a surgeon you would give up 99% of your life.
    ~90% for a specialist physician.


    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    people with mathematics related degrees are in high demand. In terms of job safety and security I would say they are around about the same. Medicine is a safe career, but nowhere near as safe as it was in the past.
    !!!

    People don't get into training programs or into staff specialist jobs like they used to.
    To be a surgeon it's something like an average of 10 years TO GET ONTO a training program
    Then if you "pass" (get in the top 20% or some shit) every exam that's 5-7 more years
    Then you need to be a fellow
    Then you need to get a staffy job

    Like
    Fuck

    It's such a long process
    And even then you might be completely fucked.

    Unless you love it and see no other option; don't do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Fair point, but I'm sure that you'd begin to enjoy med work at least a little bit after a few years (i.e "get used to it"). Also, there's lots of pressure to make the most of the "incredible opportunity and talent I have" (i.e. Getting a 99.90 ATAR).

    All my family+friends (they aren't asian btw) hold the mentality that "if you can do medicine and get high marks, then DO IT". They see it as a privilege to study something that leads to a high paying and secure career, and would look down upon a maths degree as a waste of talent and hard work and label it as a blown opportunity that most people dont ever get in their lives.
    the geniuses of the world should not do medicine, but should do research and maths and technology degrees

    A medical course teaches you to stop being an individual and do things as you are told; basically to be an obedient child.
    Highly intelligent people should be encouraged to think outside the box and form new theories about the world.

    Pls do the TSP maths/science program at USyd (or elsewhere) (?UWA)

    Because you got so high without aspirations of Medicine it probably means you must be a pretty intelligent guy.
    Pls don't do med. Do a PhD or something.

    It sounds like no one in your (extended) family is you. It also sounds like they aren't doctors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squar3root View Post
    as kiraken once said

    "when you're sticking your hand up someone's ass feeling their prostate, prestige is the last thing you are worrying about"
    mine is more like
    "When you're wrist-deep in some old lady's vagina…"
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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Riproot View Post
    yeah
    Fuck
    OP would end up killing himself


    ftfy

    If you were to be a surgeon you would give up 99% of your life.
    ~90% for a specialist physician.


    !!!

    People don't get into training programs or into staff specialist jobs like they used to.
    To be a surgeon it's something like an average of 10 years TO GET ONTO a training program
    Then if you "pass" (get in the top 20% or some shit) every exam that's 5-7 more years
    Then you need to be a fellow
    Then you need to get a staffy job

    Like
    Fuck

    It's such a long process
    And even then you might be completely fucked.

    Unless you love it and see no other option; don't do it.

    the geniuses of the world should not do medicine, but should do research and maths and technology degrees

    A medical course teaches you to stop being an individual and do things as you are told; basically to be an obedient child.
    Highly intelligent people should be encouraged to think outside the box and form new theories about the world.

    Pls do the TSP maths/science program at USyd (or elsewhere) (?UWA)

    Because you got so high without aspirations of Medicine it probably means you must be a pretty intelligent guy.
    Pls don't do med. Do a PhD or something.

    It sounds like no one in your (extended) family is you. It also sounds like they aren't doctors.

    mine is more like
    "When you're wrist-deep in some old lady's vagina…"
    Interesting perspective from an actual medical student. Thank you.

    Just a few Qs...
    -before you started uni, did you enjoy biology, anatomy and classes like that? How did you know whether you would like this sort of stuff, and did you actually end up enjoying the med degree?

    -What did you mean in this line:
    "Pls do the TSP maths/science program at USyd (or elsewhere) (?UWA)"


    -You dont have to answer this one if you dont want to, but approximately what atar did you get? I'm wondering whether Ill find the med program as hard as some other people make it out to be. Not trying to brag, but I am lucky enough to have a good memory and found year 12 decently easy, so just trying to work out whether med will actually be THAT difficult.

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Interesting perspective from an actual medical student. Thank you.

    Just a few Qs...
    -before you started uni, did you enjoy biology, anatomy and classes like that? How did you know whether you would like this sort of stuff, and did you actually end up enjoying the med degree?

    -What did you mean in this line:
    "Pls do the TSP maths/science program at USyd (or elsewhere) (?UWA)"


    -You dont have to answer this one if you dont want to, but approximately what atar did you get? I'm wondering whether Ill find the med program as hard as some other people make it out to be. Not trying to brag, but I am lucky enough to have a good memory and found year 12 decently easy, so just trying to work out whether med will actually be THAT difficult.
    We get you got a great ATAR. End of story. Not everyone is suited for Medicine, even the geniuses in the world like how Riproot has put out to you in his post. I think you should think more deep about everything he has just put out to you. Which you haven't so far, neither have your questions.

    Whats the point of posting and creating these threads multiple time. Not one time have you referred back to what people have already been mentioning to you. Are you just seeking a response which idly fits with your unrealistic intentions and thoughts? Keep going at it, you are just not gonna get it.
    .
    Last edited by Simorgh; 30 Dec 2016 at 6:49 PM.

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    There's no point of persuading him. His mindset won't change, hence he has created multiple threads on the same issue while receiving the same negative response of doing Med. I don't blame his mindset though, he's probably too young to figure out the overrated importance of occupational status in society.

    Seriously, medicine doesn't pay that much if you think about the hours, money and years you invest. You'd rather hit big trading options if you're smart in a few years.

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSmithy View Post
    Interesting perspective from an actual medical student. Thank you.

    Just a few Qs...
    -before you started uni, did you enjoy biology, anatomy and classes like that? How did you know whether you would like this sort of stuff, and did you actually end up enjoying the med degree?

    -What did you mean in this line:
    "Pls do the TSP maths/science program at USyd (or elsewhere) (?UWA)"


    -You dont have to answer this one if you dont want to, but approximately what atar did you get? I'm wondering whether Ill find the med program as hard as some other people make it out to be. Not trying to brag, but I am lucky enough to have a good memory and found year 12 decently easy, so just trying to work out whether med will actually be THAT difficult.
    i enjoyed sciences during high school, but honestly if I went to a school that taught humanities better I could see myself doing that instead and then doing med.
    I'm much more interested in the psychosocial side of medicine, even though I started wanting to be a reconstructive surgeon.
    The degree is pretty awful tbh. The first two years are just basic uni, but hard. Then 3rd-5th year is just slave labour. It's not as "hard" as it is mentally and physically taxing.
    Working for free for 40 hours a week takes a toll on you, and doing that whilst dealing with the egotistical pricks around you makes it worse.


    I went to USyd for a year
    If you do science there and received 99+ as your ATAR you can do the Talented Students' Program which is basically geared to getting the most talented students into research early and fostering their genius. Haha
    It's a pretty good scheme, I assume most Go8 unis have a variant of this.
    UWS has "The Academy" for anyone who gets above 90. Lol

    Med is not difficult.
    Like
    I got 94.75 in high school with very little effort, and have passed med with no effort + many life issues. This year I should get either a credit or distinction (depending on scaling) and put in 0 effort.
    It isn't hard.
    It's just mentally the worst. If you aren't 100% committed it is a complete waste of time to be sucking up to doctors 40 hours a week and doing their jobs for them without income.

    Quote Originally Posted by si2136 View Post
    Seriously, medicine doesn't pay that much if you think about the hours, money and years you invest. You'd rather hit big trading options if you're smart in a few years.
    this

    At the end of the day
    To be a good doctor; you need to give up your life
    In 5 years time if you aren't doing that you won't get a job after 3 years out.


    If you aren't willing to sacrifice your life for something you don't really like. Then don't do med. lol
    Like
    Wot rong u?

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    Re: Maths (Stats/data science/analytics) vs Medicine

    Medicine is challenging and rewarding, but as others have said, it's pretty easy to give up if the three points OP raised are sole motivators.

    Money - there are plenty of regular fees doctors need to pay and even if you earn enough, you'll have precious time to actually use it
    Prestige/fame - among family and friends, otherwise not much practical use
    Security (worldwide) - Australian medical degrees alone are rarely recognised outside Aus & NZ without additional training

    However, some of the examples here seem a bit extreme:
    Quote Originally Posted by Riproot View Post
    Working for free for 40 hours a week takes a toll on you, and doing that whilst dealing with the egotistical pricks around you makes it worse.
    This doesn't seem within the norm - forty hours of actual work (excluding tutorials, lectures and all that tagging along) as a medical student in clinical years seems excessive, and probably not necessary if you are interested in psychiatry/rehabilitation/geriatrics/general medicine (or something else which has a psychosocial focus).

    To be a good doctor; you need to give up your life
    In 5 years time if you aren't doing that you won't get a job after 3 years out.
    I don't believe this to be true. It shouldn't be necessary for a doctor to sacrifice themselves (however, some do) and while it's not a walk in the park, plenty of doctors manage to fit life in. Re: jobs, you will find a job, just not necessarily the one you wanted.

    If you aren't willing to sacrifice your life for something you don't really like. Then don't do med. lol
    Agree in that disliking medicine won't help with the mental fortitude that is required to be in it for the long haul.

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