Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26
Like Tree9Likes

Thread: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

  1. #1
    Moderator enoilgam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    HSC
    2010
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Location
    Mare Crisium
    Posts
    11,758
    Rep Power
    12

    Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Inspired by powlmao’s similar thread on the subject and in response to the increasing amount of ATAR estimates on this site, I have decided to put together a guide for all those seeking an estimate.

    What information do I need to provide for an estimate?

    Necessary information

    1)Your subject ranks (NOT your raw percentages)

    2)Your school rank

    An estimate cannot be made without these two pieces of information. The reason for this is as follows:

    Your subject rankings:
    Ranks are what will be used to calculate your internal marks. Your raw internal percentages don’t really mean much, as they are moderated according to your ranks and external results. For more on the minutiae of moderation, see the Board of Studies explanation of the process here: http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au...oderation.html. Also, this might seem like a no-brainer, but put how many people are in each of your subjects - 2nd out of 10 is different to 2nd out of 60.

    Your school rank:
    School rank is needed as it helps us put your marks into perspective. For example, a person coming first in Extension 1 maths at James Ruse is probably going to state rank in the subject, whereas a person coming first in this subject at a school ranked 400th in the state will probably only get a band 5.

    Other information which can help but is NOT necessary:

    - Trial marks
    - ATAR statistics from your school
    - How many people at your school get over 90 in each subject
    - School ranks from more than one year
    - Any other information you think is pertinent

    Trial marks: Trial marks can help give us an idea of how strong you are in the subject, as they match the format of your final exams. Trial marks in science and especially maths subjects are extremely useful; as marking standards are usually consistent from school to school (your answers are generally right or wrong). However, for English and humanities subjects, they are less useful, as marking standards can vary from school to school. This is because often times, some school markers (who are not HSC markers), are unaware of what exactly the HSC markers are looking for, and mark with different standards, which reduces the usefulness of these trial marks. However, if you have them they are still worth providing.

    ATAR statistics from your school:
    This includes information like the highest ATAR from your schools previous cohort, or how many people get over 90. It can also include the median/average ATAR from the previous cohort. This information is more useful for people who go to a low ranking school; as it can help us to see whether your school has outliers who do significantly better than everyone else. However, it is also useful for most other schools as well.

    How many people at your school get a band 6 in each subject:
    This can help us determine in which subjects you are likely to get a band 6, as it can show us your schools strengths and weaknesses. For instance, my old High school was strong in maths, with about 20% of the cohort getting a band 6 in 2 unit. However, we were weak in English and were lucky to have one person per year get a band 6.

    School ranks from more than one year:
    This can help show us if your school rank is stable or volatile, which can change the way we estimate

    Any other information you think is pertinent:
    Put simply, the more information we have the stronger your estimate will be. If you’re not sure whether something is relevant, include it anyway and let us judge whether it is or not.

    Reliability of an estimate

    An ATAR estimate is just that, an estimate. ATAR estimates, whether given on this site or by your school are generally unreliable. The main reasons for this are as follows:

    - There is no definitive way of converting ranks and a school rank into an ATAR.
    - The school rank is taken from the previous cohort and it’s possible that one cohort will perform better or worse than another. For some schools, there rankings stay stable whilst others can vary significantly.
    - Your rankings only apply to your internal marks which count for 50% of the HSC. Some students will do proportionally better in their final exams then they did internally and vice-versa. Obviously, we cannot predict if this will happen

    However, despite the fact that they are unreliable, an ATAR estimate can still be of some use. An ATAR estimate can give you a general idea of what you might get based on the information your provide us.

    How do estimators come to their estimate?


    Generally speaking, most estimators will use your school rank to put your subject ranks into perspective and then arrive at an estimate. They will also take any other information you provide into account. Personally, I use my own ATAR/school ranks, plus the ATAR/school ranks of my friends and others I know to gauge what your ranks/school rank could give you.

    Some people convert your ranks into a mark for each subject and put it into an ATAR calculator.

    The impact of your school


    Your school rank has NO impact on your ATAR, but the strength of your cohort does. This topic is very contentious, and there are other threads on this site which go into detail on it, so I am not going to go into a big spiel about it.

    Put simply, the biggest determinant of a student’s ATAR is the student themselves.
    Just because you go to a school ranked 500th in the state, doesn’t mean you are doomed to a poor ATAR – there are many users on this site who went to poor ranking schools and have done extremely well.

    Low ranked school estimates


    Generally speaking, estimates from low ranking schools (ranked under 450) are much more difficult to do than others. This is mainly because the average ATAR of such schools varies quite a bit and little is known about how they perform. Also some have outliers who do extremely well whilst with others have people sitting on above average ATAR’s (80’s).

    If you are coming first in most of your subjects, you will often get a broad estimate accompanied by the line “it depends on the externals”. This is because as you are coming first in many subjects, your marks will be determined by your externals (if you read the attached link, you will note that the person who comes first internally gets the highest external mark as their internal).

    Who gives the best estimates?


    As mentioned before, an ATAR estimate is just that, an estimate. Don’t limit yourself to getting an estimate from one person/user. Getting a wide variety of opinions from different users will net you the best result.

    Another important point to remember is that a school estimate is no more reliable than an estimate from this site (in my opinion, we are better at it then most schools, but that is another issue). The school doesn’t have a magic method of getting your ATAR, as their method is similar to ours. So if you have a school estimate, don’t give it more value than one from this site.

    ATAR calculators


    ATAR calculators deal in final marks so putting in your raw percentages is useless and will get you nowhere. The calculators are only useful on the day before the ATAR’s are released and to see what final marks are needed for approximately what ATAR.

    Conclusion/other information


    As mentioned before, an ATAR estimate is just that, an estimate. If your estimate is lower then you expected, don’t get disheartened and give up, because our estimates are far from accurate or absolute. Last year, there was one person who asked for an estimate, and got a consensus opinion (including me) of low 80’s. She ended up getting somewhere in the mid-90’s.

    By the same token, don’t become complacent if your estimate is better than you expected – one person last year PM’d me for an estimate and I said something that was a lot higher than what they expected. They replied to me saying “wow that’s so much higher than I expected, I guess that means I can take it easy now”. This attitude is dangerous and will put you in a perilous position.

    Also, when making a thread on the topic, try to make it need and tidy so we can clearly see the necessary information and other details. Some threads are messy and it’s difficult to tell what’s what.

    If anyone thinks I’ve missed anything, gotten something wrong or missed something in this guide, please feel free to post it below and I will change it as necessary. I have probably forgotten some things so I will probably add to this guide at some point. Also, if anyone has any questions about this guide, please make a post below and I or someone else will get back to you.
    Last edited by enoilgam; 10 Mar 2012 at 3:15 PM.
    Moderator: Modern History, Legal Studies, Studies of Religion (SOR), Commerce/Business and The University of Notre Dame Australia

    Essay Guides:
    - Modern History
    - Legal Studies
    -
    Ex-HSC Student (2010) ****
    Advanced English l Maths 2U l Economics l Legal Studies l Modern History l Studies of Religion I

  2. #2
    Executive Member passionxmusic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    HSC
    N/A
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,045
    Rep Power
    6

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    I hate giving estimates because I do it using a variety of methods and also base them upon similar marks I have heard of and known about. Hence why I always place plus or minus a few points because it's a rough estimate.

    But I agree! Anyone seeking ATAR advice should ask around and keep your mind open to the fact that we are just estimating ; so please don't hunt us down coz you were a few marks short of what we 'estimated' for you.

    For HSC Students:
    - Subject and the marks you have (not wish you had).
    - School Rank.
    - Individual Subject Rank.

    For University Students Planning on Transfer*:
    - Your Old ATAR.
    - Your current WAM/GPA per semester.
    - Which university you plan on transferring to (whether internal or external).

    *Some universities will create a new ATAR on the basis of combining 50% of your old score plus 50% of your GPA/WAM or 25% of your old score plus 75% of your GPA/WAM or use your whole GPA/WAM and convert it into a new ATAR.
    Last edited by passionxmusic; 14 Mar 2012 at 5:53 PM.
    "I could have been a doctor ~ I just didn't have the patients."
    [[ Discipline of Anatomy and Histology - USyd Graduate ]]

  3. #3
    :)
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    HSC
    N/A
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,184
    Rep Power
    6

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    where does one find out their school rank?
    Bachelor of Science, University of Western Sydney

  4. #4
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    HSC
    N/A
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11
    Rep Power
    4

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Yo, no matter what subjects your doing, get the fuck off here, go study, get 90+ and you will get a good ATAR. 90+ is achievable in all subjects.
    If you get 90+ for all subjects, you most likely end up with 99+ as final ATAR.
    joey9911, NehaRose and Ribble like this.
    Subjects: Adv. English - Mathematics Extension 2 - Chemistry - Physics
    ATAR: 99.95

  5. #5
    Moderator enoilgam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    HSC
    2010
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Location
    Mare Crisium
    Posts
    11,758
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieApocalypse View Post
    where does one find out their school rank?
    I'm not really sure - for 2010 there was better education and SMH. For last year there doesnt seem to be much. If someone has a link with the complete 2011 school rankings can they post it in this thread.
    Moderator: Modern History, Legal Studies, Studies of Religion (SOR), Commerce/Business and The University of Notre Dame Australia

    Essay Guides:
    - Modern History
    - Legal Studies
    -
    Ex-HSC Student (2010) ****
    Advanced English l Maths 2U l Economics l Legal Studies l Modern History l Studies of Religion I

  6. #6
    Cadet
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    HSC
    2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    82
    Rep Power
    4

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    HSC 2012
    Std English l Biology l Chemistry l Mathematics l Mathematics Ext 1 l Italian Beginners

    ATAR : 95.90
    HBHS '12

    UTS 2016

  7. #7
    Panda enthusiast madharris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    HSC
    2012
    Uni Grad
    2016
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,160
    Rep Power
    6

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Quote Originally Posted by xDarkSilent View Post
    that's only for maths and english... the school ranking is meant to be for all subjects

  8. #8
    Cadet
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    HSC
    2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    82
    Rep Power
    4

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    really :O never knwe :L
    HSC 2012
    Std English l Biology l Chemistry l Mathematics l Mathematics Ext 1 l Italian Beginners

    ATAR : 95.90
    HBHS '12

    UTS 2016

  9. #9
    Cadet
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    HSC
    2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    82
    Rep Power
    4

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    HSC 2012
    Std English l Biology l Chemistry l Mathematics l Mathematics Ext 1 l Italian Beginners

    ATAR : 95.90
    HBHS '12

    UTS 2016

  10. #10
    👌👀👌👀👌👀 lolwot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    HSC
    2013
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    356
    Rep Power
    5

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Bump so this thread is more visible.
    ༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༽ ༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༽ ༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༽ ༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༽ ༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༽ ༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༽ ༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༼ ºل͟º༽

  11. #11
    real human bean Absolutezero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    HSC
    N/A
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    15,057
    Rep Power
    20

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Quote Originally Posted by lolwot View Post
    Bump so this thread is more visible.
    It's stickied to the top of the page, it doesn't need to be bumped.

  12. #12
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    HSC
    2014
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    21
    Rep Power
    4

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    but if i have these two pieces of information: school rank, subject ranks how do i actually get an atar estimate.
    i.e. School: Fort Street High School
    2011 Rank: 8th
    Subjects (so far-cos i'm accelerated):
    Mathematics Extension 1: rank 10/130
    Mathematics 2 unit: rank 10/120
    Chemistry: rank 15/125
    Last edited by puneetnanda; 9 Apr 2013 at 6:12 PM.

  13. #13
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    HSC
    2013
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    3

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Hi everyone!

    So I know it's just term 2 for Year 12, but I just want to check and see if I'm getting the marks I need to get the ATAR I want. I'm not too sure about study scores, so if anyone has done my subjects before, could you please tell me what your SAC averages and exam score were in order to achieve the around the study score you had?


    Can anyone please help me predict my study scores (& even my ATAR) for this year?

    English:
    Averaging 85-87% (judging from the people I’ve discussed marks with, I’m probably ranked 9 of a class of 20?)

    Literature:
    Averaging 85-90% (probably 7 or 8 out of class of 15?)

    Legal:
    Averaging 88-95% (Ranked 7th out of a class of 21)

    History (Revs):
    Averaging 86-90% (10th out of 25)


    Religion & Society:
    Averaging 88-95% (3rd out of 15)


    I know it's a bit early, but if you could estimate my study scores for each subject, it would be lots of help.

    School Statistics
    o All students successfully attained their VCE
    o 13.6% of study scores were above 40
    o 24% of students attained an ATAR score of 90 and above
    o 48% of students attained an ATAR of 80 and above
    o College Dux for 2012 had an ATAR score of 99.00
    o Three students attained perfect study scores in Art, Biology and English

    By the way, my school is ranked in the 70s apparently (71 for last year I think, it’s generally around the 70s).




    Thank you!

  14. #14
    Moderator enoilgam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    HSC
    2010
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Location
    Mare Crisium
    Posts
    11,758
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    There have been a lot going around lately, so I just want reinterate that ATAR to ranks estimates can be even more difficult and unreliable then standard estimates.
    Moderator: Modern History, Legal Studies, Studies of Religion (SOR), Commerce/Business and The University of Notre Dame Australia

    Essay Guides:
    - Modern History
    - Legal Studies
    -
    Ex-HSC Student (2010) ****
    Advanced English l Maths 2U l Economics l Legal Studies l Modern History l Studies of Religion I

  15. #15
    Premium Member anomalousdecay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    HSC
    2013
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,812
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    They are pretty unreliable and are only a guide. Iirc back a year ago I got estimates of around 85 but got 96 so yeah there is a big difference between now and later on in the year.

  16. #16
    Cadet
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    HSC
    N/A
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    93
    Rep Power
    3

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    hi
    i really want to know my rough atar estimate
    my subjects are
    Standard english (i am an average student at english)
    General Maths
    PDHPE
    Business Studies
    Physics
    Chemistry
    i am aiming for 90+ atar
    do u think i will be able to achieve it with the subjects i have???
    please give me an estimate of the atar????
    please also give me an estimate of the marks i will need to get that atar considering i am not very good at english....thanks

  17. #17
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    HSC
    2014
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Im an Australian year 12 student who lives in NSW... am I still able to get an atar of 70?

    I go to Coffs Harbour Senior College and these are my subjects with the marks and ranks i got for the in school 50% of your ATAR:

    Senior Science:
    - coarse rank = 14/51
    - mark = 79%

    General Maths:
    - Coarse rank = 32/129
    - mark = 73%

    Legal Studies:
    - Coarse rank = 9/22
    - Mark = 72%

    Business Studies:
    - coarse rank = 14/37
    - mark = 69%

    English Standard:
    - coarse rank = 64/124
    - mark = 58%

    Im hoping to do a Bachelor of Science at Newcastle uni which I need roughly an atar of 65 for (well thats the cut-off point at least). Im hoping to get an atar of 70, though Newcastle uni offers an extra 4 atar points for people who live in my town so i only really need an atar of 61. So pretty much what marks am i going to need to get in the HSC to get an atar of 70 and do you think this is possible for me??

  18. #18
    Cadet
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    HSC
    2014
    Uni Grad
    2018
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    67
    Rep Power
    4

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Id say your high 70s, maybe even low 80s atm. Just keep doing what your doing and you should be fine. If I had to give an estimate, I'd say 78.5

    Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

  19. #19
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    HSC
    2015
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Hi!
    I would really appreciate an ATAR estimate, as I really want to get an ATAR of 97 or above, for my course.

    SCHOOL RANK ~24TH

    English Adv: 35/125
    Legal Studies: 12/19
    Maths 2u: 45/125
    Maths 3u: 95/125 (I know this is really bad, that's why I'm stressing
    Japanese continuers: 2/3
    Physics: 15/75


    THANK YOU!
    PS: I was wondering if my maths 3u would still count considering im doing so bad (it would be great if it counted because it scales so well compared to legals studies, but i'm not sure judging from the horrible rank im on! is there still a chance?)

  20. #20
    Hi Φ Rathin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    HSC
    2017
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,641
    Rep Power
    3

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlylover86 View Post
    Hi!
    I would really appreciate an ATAR estimate, as I really want to get an ATAR of 97 or above, for my course.

    SCHOOL RANK ~24TH

    English Adv: 35/125
    Legal Studies: 12/19
    Maths 2u: 45/125
    Maths 3u: 95/125 (I know this is really bad, that's why I'm stressing
    Japanese continuers: 2/3
    Physics: 15/75


    THANK YOU!
    PS: I was wondering if my maths 3u would still count considering im doing so bad (it would be great if it counted because it scales so well compared to legals studies, but i'm not sure judging from the horrible rank im on! is there still a chance?)
    95, improve legal
    2016 Preliminary

    Maths Extension • English Advanced • Biology • Legal Studies • Physics • PDHPE

    2017 HSC

    Maths Extension 2 • English Advanced • Biology • Physics • PDHPE

    Atar aim: 97
    Desired Course: Physiotherapy

  21. #21
    Cadet bachelorofbored's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    HSC
    2015
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Hunters Hill
    Posts
    57
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Hey Guys, I was wondering if I could have an ATAR estimate before trials? My academic co-ordinator predicted an 82.20.
    - These ranks haven't been updated since half-yearlies when I have significantly improved my results in Ancient History
    - If my marks would help this, please let me know and I can send them through.

    English Standard: 35/122
    Legal Studies: 10/42
    Geography: 17/30
    Ancient History: 30/39
    Studies of Religion II: 33/56

    Cheers Guys

    *School Rank = 72*
    Last edited by bachelorofbored; 21 Jul 2015 at 2:38 PM.

  22. #22
    The pessimistic optimist. BLIT2014's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    HSC
    2014
    Uni Grad
    2018
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Location
    In my head
    Posts
    8,651
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Quote Originally Posted by bachelorofbored View Post
    Hey Guys, I was wondering if I could have an ATAR estimate before trials? My academic co-ordinator predicted an 82.20.
    - These ranks haven't been updated since half-yearlies when I have significantly improved my results in Ancient History
    - If my marks would help this, please let me know and I can send them through.

    English Standard: 35/122
    Legal Studies: 10/42
    Geography: 17/30
    Ancient History: 30/39
    Studies of Religion II: 33/56

    Cheers Guys
    http://bettereducation.com.au/results/hsc.aspx
    School rank needed.
    Non scholæ sed vitæ discimus

    Got 1-2 minutes ? Please do my survey :P https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/8ZPYZSD

  23. #23
    Cadet bachelorofbored's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    HSC
    2015
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Hunters Hill
    Posts
    57
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Quote Originally Posted by BLIT2014 View Post
    School Rank = 72

    Cheers mate

    Now, since I have the appropriate information, could somebody please predict my future?
    Last edited by bachelorofbored; 21 Jul 2015 at 3:10 PM.

    ATAR Goal - 82.50+
    2016 Goal - Bachelor of Laws / Arts
    Standard English (75) - Studies of Religion II (81) - Ancient History (84) - Geography (82) - Legal Studies (87)
    Recieved an ATAR of: 79.40

    Currently Studying a Bachelor of Arts / Bachelor of Laws @ The University of Wollongong

    Offers:
    Bachelor of Arts / Laws @ UND
    Bachelor of Arts / Laws @ UNE
    Bachelor of Arts / Laws @ ACU
    Bachelor of Arts / Laws @ UOW
    Bachelor of Laws / Pol and Int. Relations @ UC


  24. #24
    Cadet bachelorofbored's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    HSC
    2015
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Hunters Hill
    Posts
    57
    Rep Power
    2

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Just to confirm,

    Subjects:
    English Standard: 35/122
    Legal Studies: 10/42
    Geography: 17/30
    Ancient History: 30/39
    Studies of Religion II: 33/56

    School Rank:
    72


    ATAR Goal - 82.50+
    2016 Goal - Bachelor of Laws / Arts
    Standard English (75) - Studies of Religion II (81) - Ancient History (84) - Geography (82) - Legal Studies (87)
    Recieved an ATAR of: 79.40

    Currently Studying a Bachelor of Arts / Bachelor of Laws @ The University of Wollongong

    Offers:
    Bachelor of Arts / Laws @ UND
    Bachelor of Arts / Laws @ UNE
    Bachelor of Arts / Laws @ ACU
    Bachelor of Arts / Laws @ UOW
    Bachelor of Laws / Pol and Int. Relations @ UC


  25. #25
    将来: NEET Sien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    HSC
    2016
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    大学入試地獄
    Posts
    2,221
    Rep Power
    3

    Re: Must read guide for those seeking an ATAR estimate

    Quote Originally Posted by bachelorofbored View Post
    Just to confirm,

    Subjects:
    English Standard: 35/122
    Legal Studies: 10/42
    Geography: 17/30
    Ancient History: 30/39
    Studies of Religion II: 33/56

    School Rank:
    72

    high 70s -Mid 80s

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •