Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 317
Like Tree4Likes

Thread: Philosophy

  1. #51
    Ain't love grand. mei_ling03's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Kingsford/Kensington
    Posts
    501
    Rep Power
    11
    hmm it appears i'm returned a lil late.. did anyone miss me?

    before i go back to what sei said, as i said i would, i have to say i completely disagree with the idea of God as the 'inner force' or that basically He is anything you want him to be. this isn't really related to philosophy, but seeing as it seems that some physical 'proof' is needed, does it ever make you wonder how statues bleed, stigmata occurs, why people speak tongue (Holy language spoken unconsciously whilst praying), or why miracles occur? of course i can't answer this at this point, but does it ever make you think there's something more to this world, something supernatural? if you don't believe all that, you could also consider that there is the same amount of historical evidence that Jesus existed as there is for Julius Caesar. noone has a problem believing Caesar existed, why not Jesus and His work?

    if you are to ask me, "but what about other religions and their miracles" or "what about those who are never exposed to religions".. my answer is that i don't know. i haven't had the chance to explore deeply all religions or enough experience of the world. but i still hold strong with my beliefs and will continue to as long as no-one else convinces me otherwise... it's a famous philosophy that it is better to believe in God than not to believe - if you're wrong, nothing can happen but good if you have followed the good preached by the religion. if you're right (and follow the teachings) you are most likely to be granted entry into Heaven. what i meant by "only limiting yourself" if you don't believe, is that you cut yourself from the possibilities and you are only left with damnation (such a cruel sounding word!).

    Originally posted by ajyt

    The concept of God was, and has, been mutated. People now believe God is an external force of power or control.
    how exactly has the concept of God changed? is there any historical proof? i would, however, agree with the idea that the concept of God has changed from an external force to an 'inner force' in our society. from my knowledge, Judaism is the oldest religion known and i don't know of any historical proof that the concept of God has changed as you have described. Christianity follows on from Judaism, and i still don't see where this concept has changed. please enlighten me.
    B Psychology @ UNSW: 3rd year. i'm getting old :mad1:

  2. #52
    Ain't love grand. mei_ling03's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Kingsford/Kensington
    Posts
    501
    Rep Power
    11
    Originally posted by lengstar
    here's a question:

    if a person has never heard of the word of God, yet continues to live a campassionate and benevalent lifestyle and helps other people, is he more deserving that a criminal who believes in God, yet still commits crimes only to pray for forgiveness of his sins?

    and what of people who have no respect for other people, who think those that do not believe in God don't deserve to go to heaven, yet there are people who don't people in God and are much better people than those that do? who is more deserving? the stuck up elitist bitch or the humble person?
    for those who have never heard of God, i freely admit that i don't know what happens in their situation. but as for those who 'believe' in God and don't follow His ways - this does not mean that this person is truly following God.. and in my view, not necessarily correct, this person should not be considered any more deserving than another. let me quote from 1 John 4: "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.... Whoevever lives in love lives in God, and God in him (perhaps this answers the first question).... For anyone who says "I love God", yet hates his brother, is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen... Whoever loves God must also love his brother." does this answer your question?
    B Psychology @ UNSW: 3rd year. i'm getting old :mad1:

  3. #53
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    0 00 N, 160 00 W
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    11
    argh! i knew it - every time i get into a debate about this stuff it always leads to.. well debate. (sigh).

    firstly, it's clear that there was a period in history when the church was a body of power - like the time of Saint Joan. when i say the concept changed, i refer to the way religion is classed, and the way God is directly linked with religion.

    before i blabber on, i should say that my perspective is more on the scientific side. i believe in the power of belief and the power of the mind. i do, however, have my doubts about very 'deliberate' miracles such as the parting of the sea, etc.

    One 'miracle' i believe is the story with the Bhudda - once he was confronted by some people with swords. he wasn't frightened and didn't feel any hatred and didn't move, so when the bad guy brought the sword down on him, the sword stopped before it cut the Bhudda. myself, i attribute this miracle to the power of the mind.

    what i'm trying to say is that i believe God is the mind's way of solving problems. for example, a child who is a 'loner' might have an imaginery friend to talk to. Another friend of mine once argued: your friends and family are here now to help you through, but what if one day you're all alone, and the whole world is against you? The only one who will be there for you is God.

    True. But i repeat, it all comes down to believing in oneself. if it comforts your mind to believe that an enourmous power is helping you, then so be it. in the end, the power lies in the power of belief. Not belief in something else, but belief that you can do it.

    And about religion. Fervent followers of the church need not baulk at non-followers. I'm saying that the church and religion is a separate entity from God. Tupac once said: ..why doesn't the church open its doors to the homeless?
    i ask: why is the church divided amonst itself? why do the different religions have friction between them, and why does the classing of belief - religion - establish yet more lines of differences and conflict of opinion in society? Aside from the purposes of political gain, wars are waged fundamentally because of differences in opinion. Petty disagreements like these evolve into hostility.

    Now think about this - if unification of the religions was achieved, that would illiminate these differences. Conversely, if the classing of belief was erradicated, so would be the established borders of differences amongst believers.

    What i'm trying to get at in any of my arguments is that: i really do think people should not mix the concept of religion and the church, with the concept of the mind, belief, and God.
    Class of 2003

  4. #54
    Ain't love grand. mei_ling03's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Kingsford/Kensington
    Posts
    501
    Rep Power
    11
    Originally posted by sei
    How on earth do you know he doesn't write down these statements? (that God does not write our life out) Are you omniscient? Are you implying (even though you said he can) that he really CAN'T write them down and is bound by his decisions? Because the point is that he CAN and that proves that life is predetermined if you believe in an omniscient God (you are not understanding this are you?
    lol @ the omniscient statement about me..hehe i find that quite funny.. anyway i see what you are trying to say, but as annoying as this may seem, i disagree. umm..simple way to explain.. ok ( i know this sounds stupid): we are lab rats that WILL choose our way through life and in a way, WE have already made ourselves a maze to travel through til we reach the other side (death). God is the person who looks down upon us and sees what we'll do and where we'll go - our names are already (or not) written in the "Book of the Lamb" (Lamb = Jesus). does this make sense? if so, i hope you at least see where i've been coming from...
    one more thing before it's asked: no, i don't believe in fate. we choose our own destinies. hmm you could say i believe in a "half-fate" - that we are living out our choices.
    God is never bound by anything.

    Originally posted by sei
    The above (from you) clearly shows that you are implying that God is either NOT omnipotent (all powerful) or not wholly good as He either:
    1.Had to give the Devil power (which challenges God's omnipotence), or
    2.Chose to give the Devil power (which challenges God being wholly good).
    And further to that, you wrote that God gave us the choice between evil and good, not two goods -this has been written plenty of times, at least add something to it. How about explaining WHY evil HAS to exist? And WHY God made evil exist? I already wrote all those counters against why people typically say God allowed evil to exist or created evil. Have a read of them, and tell me WHY God made evil exist when he didn't have to.
    lol am i God? clearly not. how am i supposed to know WHY he made his choices? all i know is WHAT were his choices because it is written there in the Bible. i still don't understand why choosing to allow Satin's power on earth challenges God being wholly good. God isn't Satin.

    Originally posted by sei
    OK so you are implying that he is not wholly good then. If he has the power to intervene in natural disasters (as you said he did), yet CHOOSES not too, he cannot be a wholly good being. Think about it.
    The 'new life' argument from a natural disaster is pretty poor -it seems like you're grabbing at straws to try to justify such a disaster of mass-scale and show that some good comes out of it when God does not intervene. I don't think it's very comforting knowing that a few organisms ("new life") may grow out of the wreck caused by a natural disaster that killed hundreds or thousands of people. The 'new life' argument also proposes that life after the disaster is better than life before (otherwise why would an all-powerful, wholly good God allow it?). I'm sure the families of the thousands who died would disagree that life is better after it (and it is clearly an event that an all-powerful and wholly good being could and would have prevented).
    i think you're reading into the statement about disasters bringing new life too much. all i was trying to say is that WE don't always see why things happen and the good that can come out of these disasters (e.g. building of a person, compassion between people,etc). all these questions about WHY God does things or allows things to occur i cannot answer. once again, i'm not God. because things don't benefit us directly doesn't make them evil. i can't explain why babies die, why people suffer, why disasters occur. you can ask God that.

    Originally posted by sei
    There was no argument as such that God has been subjected to some causal law, it was a counter -ie in case someone was going to say that evil was a means to good.
    What do you mean by driving force coming from within him rather than an external force? Can you clarify that thanks.
    ok sorry i'm just confused. i thought he/she was saying what a friend of mine was saying to me before: that if God is so complete, why did he make humans and not be satisfied with just existing. what my friend was saying was that something external must have 'pressured' God to create us.

    Originally posted by sei
    Who are WE to try to comprehend him? Presumably WE are his people mei ling, who He created. Christians are meant to be in a loving bond with God, and to love him intimately. I'm sure you would like to have knowledge about the being who you believe is responsible ultimately for your life, a being that you not only love intimately, but trust wholly, through your faith.

    And would you mind explaining what exactly we are limiting on ourselves by trying to seek a fuller understanding of God?
    i said who are we to comprehend him, to summarise his power and choices in a paragraph. i meant that we will never FULLY understand him, that's why He is God. therefore we should not claim to know. i should have expressed myself better. there is no reason why we shouldn't seek a fuller understanding of God - that's why i'd like to do philosophy too to challenge or cement my beliefs.
    i meant limiting ourselves in trying to prove that God does not exist (i answered that in my 3rd last post).
    Last edited by mei_ling03; 16 Nov 2003 at 6:20 PM.
    B Psychology @ UNSW: 3rd year. i'm getting old :mad1:

  5. #55
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    0 00 N, 160 00 W
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    11
    Oh yes -

    i never intended to imply Jesus did not exist. But his strories, i believe, are there to tell a moral story. I repeat, the story of "Little Red Riding Hood" teaches little kiddies not to sidetrack and talk to strangers. The original story has been revised many times to teach varied moral stories.

    The story is taken for its teachings, and we learn from that. Jesus was a good guy who did good stuff and inspired some people. Then some people chose to write stories to exhibit those morals.

    And now you've forced me to say this -- if non-religious people cut themselves from possibilities, I say that people who adopt a particular religion are in fact the ones who confine their way of thinking into a set domain. Saint Joan wasn't religious - she believed in her God. See the difference?
    Class of 2003

  6. #56
    Ain't love grand. mei_ling03's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Kingsford/Kensington
    Posts
    501
    Rep Power
    11
    i know this is irrelevant but i don't believe in the power of "saints". saints are just people that other people elected as "holy". sorry, it always ticks me off...

    i'd like to stay and argue.. but dishes have to be washed, etc etc
    see you all in 8 days...SCHOOOOOLLIES!!!!!!!
    B Psychology @ UNSW: 3rd year. i'm getting old :mad1:

  7. #57
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    0 00 N, 160 00 W
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    11
    for god's sake, that's not the point!
    Class of 2003

  8. #58
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    0 00 N, 160 00 W
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    11
    .. and i too have a body to wash
    Class of 2003

  9. #59
    sei
    sei is offline
    Cadet sei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    78
    Rep Power
    11
    Originally posted by mei_ling03
    lol @ the omniscient statement about me..hehe i find that quite funny.. anyway i see what you are trying to say, but as annoying as this may seem, i disagree. umm..simple way to explain.. ok ( i know this sounds stupid): we are lab rats that WILL choose our way through life and in a way, WE have already made ourselves a maze to travel through til we reach the other side (death). God is the person who looks down upon us and sees what we'll do and where we'll go - our names are already (or not) written in the "Book of the Lamb" (Lamb = Jesus). does this make sense? if so, i hope you at least see where i've been coming from...
    one more thing before it's asked: no, i don't believe in fate. we choose our own destinies. hmm you could say i believe in a "half-fate" - that we are living out our choices.
    God is never bound by anything.
    Didn't you read my post about if God left a list on earth detailing exactly what would happen in our lives? How come you didn't respond to this? You disagreeing just shows that you didn't consider what I wrote because not only did you not respond to it, but you still (for whatever reason) chose to inform us yet again that you (baselessly) disagree. Even your rat example contradicts what you are saying 'we have already made ourselves a maze to travel through' -even that statement implies predeterminism. Respond to my earlier example if God put that list of our life's events in front of us on earth.

    Originally posted by mei_ling03
    lol am i God? clearly not. how am i supposed to know WHY he made his choices? all i know is WHAT were his choices because it is written there in the Bible. i still don't understand why choosing to allow Satin's power on earth challenges God being wholly good. God isn't Satin.
    Choosing to ALLOW Satan's power challenges God being wholly good (100% good) or being omnipotent because if God WAS wholly good he wouldn't allow ANY evil event to happen (which he does by allowing Satan power) and if he was omnipotent he would have the power to stop Satan from ever having power over earth. Since you say he CHOSE to allow Satan power on earth it shows that you do not really believe him to be wholly good, because he is allowing the existence of a being who will create things and acts that are not good (and since according to the Bible God is omniscient, he knows this will happen too!).
    Can't you see the contradiction? Or am I wasting my time here because you are the only one replying to my arguments, and you are oblivious to the contradictions in your own posts, let alone how you never admit your arguments are weak or uninformed when I take them apart.

    Originally posted by mei_ling03
    i said who are we to comprehend him, to summarise his power and choices in a paragraph. i meant that we will never FULLY understand him, that's why He is God. therefore we should not claim to know. i should have expressed myself better. there is no reason why we shouldn't seek a fuller understanding of God - that's why i'd like to do philosophy too to challenge or cement my beliefs.
    I can nearly guarantee you now that any delving into philosophy on your part will definitely not cement your beliefs about God. Conversely, you'll find that a lot of philosophy challenges fundamental beliefs about God.

    Originally posted by mei_ling03
    i meant limiting ourselves in trying to prove that God does not exist (i answered that in my 3rd last post).
    I haven't tried to prove that God doesn't exist -don't make things up. Therefore, I'm not limiting myself.

    Originally posted by mei_ling03
    i know this is irrelevant but i don't believe in the power of "saints". saints are just people that other people elected as "holy". sorry, it always ticks me off...
    You don't believe in the power of Saints? Do you understand HOW they actually come to be Saints?
    Now or Never

  10. #60
    That Guy Gregor Samsa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Permanent Daylight
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    11
    I'm also interested in Existensialism, and some other forms of philosophy, especially in trying to view the links between them, for instance, how some Existensialist doctrines are actually quite similar to those of the ancient Stoics; namely that, existence is absurd, yet we must try to make the best of it while we are in possession of life, Waste no more time debating what a good man is. Be one-Marcus Aurelius.

    Quite similar to Camus in 'The Myth Of Sisyphus', except in this case, the contrast is between absurd existence (existensialism) and the inevitability of death (Stoicism, although that's not the only tenet of this philosophical 'branch'.)

    Another 'link', I feel, is shown in King Lear, which can be read in this fashion, with Lear, Gloucester and Edgar enduring their sufferings in a chaotic world, only to each experience some form of redemption.

    When we are born, we cry that we are come to this great stage of fools-Lear.

    Henceforth, I'll bear out pain until it do cry out 'Enough, Enough' and die.-Gloucester.

    Men must endure their going hence even as their coming hither. Ripeness is all-Edgar.

    This is an example of another area of philosophy that interests me, how is it reflected in texts and societal discourse? How does it interact? (Russell defined philosophy as being effectively a bridge between religion and science). Camus states that All novels are philosophical texts, and in that sense, philosophy is much more widespread currently than most people give it credit for. Of course, the ambiguity of the questions being 'answered' is what makes philosophy such an ongoing pursuit.
    "Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric"-Bertrand Russell.
    "Youth is happy because it has the ability to see beauty. Anyone who keeps the ability to see beauty never grows old."-Franz Kafka.

  11. #61
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    0 00 N, 160 00 W
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    11
    "If there were no God, it would be necessary to invent him." -- Voltaire
    Class of 2003

  12. #62
    Ain't love grand. mei_ling03's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Kingsford/Kensington
    Posts
    501
    Rep Power
    11
    helloOO! well, it's a shame i didn't come back to find another 8 pages of discussion here... cmon guys don't you all have something to say about this topic? oh well just here to browse.. have fun

  13. #63
    Saddam's new life freaking_out's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    In an underground bunker
    Posts
    6,791
    Rep Power
    15
    Originally posted by ajyt
    "If there were no God, it would be necessary to invent him." -- Voltaire
    thats is total bull!!!
    Last edited by freaking_out; 27 Nov 2003 at 9:49 PM.
    B Engineering/B Science @ USYD

    "Don't worry, there's always tafe''

  14. #64
    dum-di-dum iambored's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Location
    here
    Posts
    10,958
    Rep Power
    18
    Originally posted by ChangingPants
    Ahh yes, philosophy. One that always always has a profound effect on me is contemplation of the concept of existence. Not existentialism, but existence. We know as little about existence as we do about death. Stare at yourself in the mirror sometimes, and try to step outside yourself, look at yourself as though from the eyes of a stranger. It is a momentary sensation when you manage to wrap your mind around something so puzzling as existence and being... it only lasts a split second - perhaps beyond the reach and capabilities of our limited human minds?
    hell yeah how weird is that

  15. #65
    dum-di-dum iambored's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Location
    here
    Posts
    10,958
    Rep Power
    18
    Originally posted by lengstar
    and what of people who have no respect for other people, who think those that do not believe in God don't deserve to go to heaven, yet there are people who don't people in God and are much better people than those that do? who is more deserving? the stuck up elitist bitch or the humble person?
    the humble person of course
    imo - believing in god is not everything, it does not determine your deservance, more important is how you use this belief to live, and if you don't use it at all, then its bs

    i'll read this whole thread one day

  16. #66
    Cadet
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    33
    Rep Power
    11
    I've skimmed through this thread and I'm proud to see ppl discussing this topic. I've noticed however that alot of you assume too much and forget to free your mind of any "facts" or "truths". Remember the uncertainty and that theres always multiple view points. You could start with the simplest "facts" and ask yourself 'why?' in absolutely every thought as you progress further.

    "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." - René Descartes

    "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein

    Try not assuming that god thinks like humans, so... simply. Question god's primordial and current existence and reason for existence (that voltaire quote is an all-time goodie!). Even if you are a christian (I was when younger). I spoke with a devout christian once who commended me, saying something along the lines of "God wants us to question and search for him because if we search with all our hearts we will surely find him."

    Well keep up the good work guys. Perhaps look into gnosticism, pantheism, idealism etc with serious thought. Most importantly, keep your minds thinking, keep questioning and you will keep growing. Enjoy.

    BTW, go matrix !!
    Last edited by johnwoo; 28 Nov 2003 at 7:25 PM.
    It is not the answer that enlightens. But the question - Eugene Ionesco

  17. #67
    Cadet PacifistWarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Illawarra, South Coast, NSW
    Posts
    50
    Rep Power
    11
    Woohoo! My thread has made it to five pages. What are you peoples favourite areas of philosophy?
    ** My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. - Ashleigh Brilliant**

    **This sentence contradicts itself -- no actually it doesn't. - Doug Hofstadter**

  18. #68
    Executive Member lengstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,208
    Rep Power
    11
    Existentialism, i'm still in denial over my own existence.

  19. #69
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    0 00 N, 160 00 W
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    11
    Originally posted by freaking_out
    thats is total bull!!!
    the saying points out that God is a manufactured concept. are u saying that's bull, or did you interpret it some other way?

  20. #70
    dum-di-dum iambored's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Location
    here
    Posts
    10,958
    Rep Power
    18
    has this turned into a religion thread? we need another philosophical topic

  21. #71
    sei
    sei is offline
    Cadet sei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    78
    Rep Power
    11
    Originally posted by iambored
    has this turned into a religion thread? we need another philosophical topic
    not yet. Religion is a HUGE part of philosophy. So in discussing religion, this thread has actually stayed on topic very well..

    And still no-one wants to refute the arguments I put up?..
    Now or Never

  22. #72
    Your friendly HSC guide Ragerunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    HSC
    2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    UNSW
    Posts
    5,477
    Rep Power
    14
    A question that I have been wondering...

    It revolves around perspectives.

    Is everyone equal?

    We all feel that the world revolves around us. Each individual has their own point of view. Whether it is going out, breathing, walking, moving, it appears as though you control your life. Everything around you revolves around your actions. You are the center of attention.

    But how is that possible?

    Who is to say that you are the center of attention when everyone in the world has their own perspective to look upon.

    I believe and know that there is a main focus. One person which the world/universe truely revolves around. Can you guess?

    I certainly would love to take philosophy to get a lot of these questions answered or at least have a better understanding.
    B Science @ UNSW (Major in Psychology)

  23. #73
    Cadet PacifistWarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Illawarra, South Coast, NSW
    Posts
    50
    Rep Power
    11
    Nobody is equal. Individuals aren't equal to themselves on some days. People all have equal rank in terms of being human, but this is not the same as being equal generally.

    I have often wondered what it would be like to 'step into' somebody elses body for a bit and think their thoughts (while knowing I'm really me) and experience being them.
    ** My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. - Ashleigh Brilliant**

    **This sentence contradicts itself -- no actually it doesn't. - Doug Hofstadter**

  24. #74
    i'm feeling fat and sassy chelloveck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    HSC
    2004
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Location
    fenner hall. perving on mcdickpants across the road dancing to dresden dolls in his undies.
    Posts
    351
    Rep Power
    10
    yeah, i've thought that too...but how can you you be thinking as two people at once?
    namaste!...that's the extent of my hindi so far...

  25. #75
    EDIT
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    HSC
    N/A
    Gender
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,729
    Rep Power
    15
    Philosophy is in essence thought. And I've started a website purely based on thought.

Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •