Chinese parenting compared to Western (1 Viewer)

S4Saustralia

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It sounds pretty unbelievable.

Do any of you hold your parents in contempt for their strict control? How do you rate your childhood happiness and would you rather succeed less if it equated to a less restricted adolescence?

Most importantly, having experienced it...would you replicate similar behaviour to your children?
 

Naoko_Takeuchi

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There's only so much a person can achieve with hard work - the article implies any kid can become what he wants if his parents push him hard. It's untrue. To become a mathematician or an astrophysicist hard work isn't enough. The article doesn't bring up intelligence at all. East Asians do well partly because of a hard working culture but it's mainly because East Asian groups have higher average IQs than whites.

If there are any Chinese in this thread, don't give the Anglos the satisfaction by agreeing with the article. Be proud of your genes and natural abilities.

See this thread here: http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?t=253681&page=1
 

Shadowdude

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• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama
HAHA, So true!

I love this article already.


Anyway, do you think that East Asians have higher IQs due to this sort of pushing? I think so.
 

S4Saustralia

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There's only so much a person can achieve with hard work - the article implies any kid can become what he wants if his parents push him hard. It's untrue. To become a mathematician or an astrophysicist hard work isn't enough. The article doesn't bring up intelligence at all. East Asians do well partly because of a hard working culture but it's mainly because East Asian groups have higher average IQs than whites.

If there are any Chinese in this thread, don't give the Anglos the satisfaction by agreeing with the article. Be proud of your genes and natural abilities.

See this thread here: http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?t=253681&page=1
Thank you for your input. However, I was never intending this to turn into a racial debate.

However, I can hardly agree that strict parenting is a 'natural ability'. If we take a step back from the idea of the article and focus on the article itself, my impression is that Amy does not want children but rather trophies. The author claims that she is guiding her children for their benefit and be grateful...but I have to question real impacts on the child.

What if the child fails to meet their expectations? Are they excluded from the family or will the mother have a sudden change of heart?

The author also seems to be self-righteous about her parenting approach and somewhat proud of her children's restricted lifestyle. I also have a problem with how she works so hard to make her children unable to question themselves. As demonstrated below:

[Lulu was trying to learn a piano piece, but continued to faile]


Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart. Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she was giving up and stomped off.


"Get back to the piano now," I ordered.
"You can't make me."
"Oh yes, I can."


Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.
I am not suggesting that this is the mentality of a chinese parent, but I am suggesting that it is improper parenting. At the end of the article, Amy claims she is "arming her children with inner-confidence"...This does not sound true in relation to her parenting. It sounds to me that she is arming her children with insecurity due to the constant failure to live up to expectations.

It's also concerning to read that the mother restricted her children play-dates and sleepovers. I really doubt her children have any true friends, and as academically brilliant as they may be, I feel that they will be disadvantaged once entering uni or the workforce with social skills of a child.

But let's be realistic, we cannot judge the mentality of a culture based on one individual, that is why I came here to ask asian students what their parents were like. Can I ask if you are asian?

I feel that this kind of parenting has resulted from a competitive mentality to be the best and outdo peers. The mentality seems to be very individualistic and very concerned about competing with peers. I also noticed your comment: "don't give the Anglos the satisfaction by agreeing with the article. Be proud of your genes and natural abilities."...There is nothing wrong with having pride in your culture, but it sounds as if you are trying to justify the behaviour of Amy by stating that Asians are better than other Cultures, and thus, have won the 'competition'.

How would you rate your success based on happiness and fulfillment rather than Academic/Intellectual ability.

Most importantly, despite the difficulty, we should try to avoid an argument to which race is superior...None of us will never know which parenting approach is best as both have pros and cons and we cannot experience both to properly compare them. However, one thing that we can definitely agree on is that as long as the children are happy, the parenting approach is successful.
 

S4Saustralia

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Anyway, do you think that East Asians have higher IQs due to this sort of pushing? I think so.

Let's be completely fair and try to avoid a racial argument.

However, according to wikipedia - "Jensen and Rushton have estimated the average IQ of blacks/Africans to be around 85; of whites/Europeans to be around 100, and of East Asians to be around 106." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence). Regardless of these stats, as long as one is pleased with their own ability, they shouldnt worry about how others are doing.

I would rather avoid arguments on which race is best based on intellegence. I think the true concern is to the mental well-being of the children based on opposing parental approaches and for the sake of the argument, it might be most beneficial to remove race from the identity of the parent and rather classify the individual as 'Strict' or 'not strict'. From here, we can find the impacts and make judgements to which parental approach is best...We really cant criticize any parental approach as both yield completely different results, however, based on the well-being of the children, we can make decsions as to which approach we prefer and hopefully follow a similar approach in the future.
 

Shadowdude

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Well, I think that Asians use the Pygmalion Effect - that is, you're not good enough and you will have the strength to fight from adversity - and you shall. They fight back and they then experience success.

I agree that what the person did there is very extreme - like all night on the piano... that's just extreme. And only in America. I didn't get that, all I got was very forceful pushing to concentrate on my studies - and I was not yelled at if I wasn't first. I had a very nice mix of "Western" comfort parenting and "Asian" demands parenting - though it leaned very much on the Asian side.

I was forced to perform well, I was put in a pressure cooker (metaphorically) and I came out the other end successful enough for them.


Besides, I see the bogans walking around the shops pashing their girlfriends and doing whatnot - and that's the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have my children being academic robots who have no social skills rather than walking, talking, stupid receptacles of lust. Social skills can be worked on - I've worked on them, and I can now talk to many people on a wide variety of topics - though I never had much social interaction outside of school. Respect and dignity cannot be regained as easily.
 
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S4Saustralia

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I agree with your entire message until this point.

I'd rather have my children being academic robots who have no social skills rather than walking, talking, stupid receptacles of lust. Social skills can be worked on - I've worked on them, and I can now talk to many people on a wide variety of topics - though I never had much social interaction outside of school. Respect and dignity cannot be regained as easily.
I am very uncertain about pushing anything onto children. What extent would you go to ensure that your children were 'academic robots'? What would you do if your child preferred to be a 'stupid receptacle of lust'?

I really think that is most important, what the child prefers...and yes, I understand that perhaps children are too young and naive to make up their own mind...however, I doubt that shoveling our values down their throat will result in happiness.
 

Shadowdude

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We have to push things onto children because parents have had the life experience. Parents have been there, done that - and the children have not. They need to be taught.

I was talking of two extremes of course - but I'd push on them [my children] a healthy need to do well at school. But I was very unhappy when I found out I liked sport when I was already too old and too behind everyone else. They need balance - and so I'd also push for them to socialise outside of school in sports teams and things like that. And what's wrong with being in a play anyway? Neither style in the article is correct - a balance must be struck.

And if my children wanted to be a stupid receptacle of lust, I'd take it as an affront to myself - because obviously these thoughts don't pop out of nowhere. If they kept going, I'd disown them and throw all their stuff out of the house. Family name is very important in Asian cultures and I will not allow a stupid child to ruin my family's name.

What the child prefers is important - but we need to make sure that whatever they do, they become useful members of society and not parasites.
 

FreeWorld

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Natural abilities does not exist in an entire race, but to specific individuals so you sir are an idiot. If you achieve an atar of 99, then it is a 1/100 chance that you're intelligent, because the rest is just hard working.
 

Shadowdude

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Natural ability still needs to be fostered. It is much better fostered, in my opinion - in Asian cultures due to that Pygmalion effect. I don't see that sort of honing of natural ability in many other cultures.
 

FreeWorld

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When someone gets an atar of 99 or consistently getting HD in uni with minimal effort then come ask me whether they're intelligent and have the natural abilities. Otherwise studying 15 hours a day for your whole schooling years is AIN'T NATURAL KID.
 

4025808

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lol the article seems rather false in many ways, as my parents are never like that and they don't believe in that. They know that there are limits to a child in what they can do and as such. I know of parents who, like Amy's, push and push their child to become number 1 in the state or something... though tbh I reckon their children, from what I see tend to be either socially awkward or just don't want to be under their parents control.

My parents would let me attend sleepovers, be in a school play and do all sorts of stuff, as long as it wasn't sex or drugs :p They would be alright if I got a C once, provided that I improved to a B or a higher grade. But anything lower than a C would be considered bad for my parents. I remember my parents tried to push me to get into a better selective school but it didn't work out. Eventually they gave up on that method and just let me pursue what I wanted to do, as they knew I would do better that way.

I tend to find that the methods of Amy's parenting are effective only in childhood, once the child enters university, stuff doesn't turn out to be the way it was before, as often or not, they lack social skills, possibly intelligence (coz uni is not just about hard work, thinking skills are critical as well).

As some people stated before, there should be a balance. You might not have as much success right now but you'll be better off in the future, as you're more balanced out.
 

twistedrebel

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doubt all asians are like that. Very few.

Also asians dont really have a superior IQ to whites, its just they are pushed harder by their parents, due to a number of factors.
 

germansuplex

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I don't see that much of a difference between Chinese and Western parenting. It's all the same and only comes down to the parent's view of wanting the best for their child. Even though they may be expressed different ways, it's the same.
 

cosmo kramer

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However, I can hardly agree that strict parenting is a 'natural ability'.
It is not an 'ability', but it is a behavior, and as behavior is ultimately rooted in behavioral characteristics that are to some extent genetically grounded, one could say that parental style is indeed somewhat genetically determined. The home environment is merely an extended phenotype.

Also asians dont really have a superior IQ to whites, its just they are pushed harder by their parents, due to a number of factors.
Except they do. Oriental East-Asians score on average 3-5 points higher than White Europeans on IQ tests. This is a thoroughly well documented and global pattern.

Oriental East-Asians adopted into White households outscore the White average. When the Oriental East-Asian parental style is found in White households it is negatively correlated with academic achievement. White-Asian differences are Spearman effects which is not predicted by what you are saying. There is no unique correlation structure between the two groups that would manifest if there was something specific to Asian intellectual developmental processes that make them superior to White intellectual developmental processes. Asian-White differences are in accordance with a suite of life history characteristics such as physical and mental maturation rates. Essentially, the statement that White-Oriental IQ differences are genetic in origin meets more predictions than the argument that it is due to parental upbringing styles.

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/004064.html
 
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