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Thread: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

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    CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Hi, I have been looking to transfer into a CS or IT program, how is this program compared to other unis?
    I have heard it is more practical which is what I like and I seem to learn more. However, the units in the CS program is different than those at UNSW etc and it is 4 years instead of 3 years..

    How is the teaching aspect at UTS? Are the lectures clear and make sense? Cause that is mostly why I want to transfer.

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoogk0s View Post
    Hi, I have been looking to transfer into a CS or IT program, how is this program compared to other unis?
    I have heard it is more practical which is what I like and I seem to learn more. However, the units in the CS program is different than those at UNSW etc and it is 4 years instead of 3 years..

    How is the teaching aspect at UTS? Are the lectures clear and make sense? Cause that is mostly why I want to transfer.
    Yo, I currently go to UTS and previously went to UNSW (idk whether 1 semester of experience at UTS will be any help though).
    Also, I thought comp sci at UTS is 4 years as they have an integrated honours year? I can speak more for IT as I've had to do all the IT core subjects this semester but I hope I can enlighten you a little.

    For my computing classes, none of the tutors have actually got up in front of the classroom to "teach", it seems to be more of a self learning approach which I don't really mind. Also the lectures were pretty pointless for most of my classes so idk.

    e.g. I had to do Programming Fundamentals and we had lectures for about the first 5-6 weeks but also had to watch videos online (in addition to the lectures) for the whole sem. I didn't really find any of it helpful and had to teach java to myself, but you might idk. Also, the labs were weird, the tutors didn't formally teach us anything and we spent the first hour doing a mastery test and then we could leave unless we needed to ask the tutor questions.
    On the other hand, I did comp1911 at unsw and the tut/labs were structured so much better as they actually got up in front of the classroom, went through tutorial questions with us and then we went to our lab and attempted exercises on our own (but the course was way more intense and stressful than prog fun at UTS).

    from what I can gather (if future courses also follow this trend) UTS seems to have:
    - a lot of online lecture viewing in addition to face to face lectures
    - a LOT of group assignments (deathhhhh)
    - less subjects seem to have final exams (rly good as I only have 2 final exams this sem as opposed to my usual 4)
    - a lot of self learning in practical classes (which is good as you learn a lot but why pay$$)

    I feel that UNSW has a more engineering based CS program which is where it differs to UTS (also UNSWs computing is v hardcore), but if you go on both of the universities handbooks, you can check out specific subject outlines and compare them.

    As for the BScIT, you have to do a minimum of 9 months of work experience which you undertake at the end of 2nd year (I guess this is why people say UTS is more practical?).

    Sooo, overall, the course structures and teaching have been a slight let down (compared to what I experienced last year), but I've been way less stressed, haven't had as many contact hours, and haven't been drowning in work. I've basically been cruising. Granted, it will probably get hard in future years, so hopefully someone in 2nd year + can enlighten us both on that? lol.

    I dunno if I've answered your question, it was kinda broad but if you want to know anything else let me know.
    BSc in idk wat @ unsw

    my life is a joke, come and laugh with me

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    UTS Bachelor of IT isn't computer science, there's very little to no math in the entire course, i'm currently in my 2nd year and haven't used anything more than simple arithmetic. The UNSW course is real computer science with very intensive mathematics, UTS doesn't have any course programs that offer this, it mainly focuses on how programming incorporates in the real world business environment.

    Now the teaching at UTS is absolutely atrocious, you're better off just self learning, many of the lecturers are terrible and the tutors don't even actively teach you until you ask a question, in which most of the time they are clueless. There's also a ton of group assessments, my next semester has subjects that all have group projects, which is really irritating since there's many foreign students who can't even communicate properly or just don't care.

    So really UTS offers close to nothing, if i could go back i'd probably go to TAFE and get an Diploma in IT instead. However in regards to your question, if you want hands on practical real world programming and IT then UTS (or TAFE) is the way to go, otherwise just go to UNSW for real computer science with all the intense maths and theory, you're likely to become a much better programmer in that course since it teaches you a very high level of abstract thinking.

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clara_Oswald View Post
    Yo, I currently go to UTS and previously went to UNSW (idk whether 1 semester of experience at UTS will be any help though).
    Also, I thought comp sci at UTS is 4 years as they have an integrated honours year? I can speak more for IT as I've had to do all the IT core subjects this semester but I hope I can enlighten you a little.

    For my computing classes, none of the tutors have actually got up in front of the classroom to "teach", it seems to be more of a self learning approach which I don't really mind. Also the lectures were pretty pointless for most of my classes so idk.

    e.g. I had to do Programming Fundamentals and we had lectures for about the first 5-6 weeks but also had to watch videos online (in addition to the lectures) for the whole sem. I didn't really find any of it helpful and had to teach java to myself, but you might idk. Also, the labs were weird, the tutors didn't formally teach us anything and we spent the first hour doing a mastery test and then we could leave unless we needed to ask the tutor questions.
    On the other hand, I did comp1911 at unsw and the tut/labs were structured so much better as they actually got up in front of the classroom, went through tutorial questions with us and then we went to our lab and attempted exercises on our own (but the course was way more intense and stressful than prog fun at UTS).

    from what I can gather (if future courses also follow this trend) UTS seems to have:
    - a lot of online lecture viewing in addition to face to face lectures
    - a LOT of group assignments (deathhhhh)
    - less subjects seem to have final exams (rly good as I only have 2 final exams this sem as opposed to my usual 4)
    - a lot of self learning in practical classes (which is good as you learn a lot but why pay$$)

    I feel that UNSW has a more engineering based CS program which is where it differs to UTS (also UNSWs computing is v hardcore), but if you go on both of the universities handbooks, you can check out specific subject outlines and compare them.

    As for the BScIT, you have to do a minimum of 9 months of work experience which you undertake at the end of 2nd year (I guess this is why people say UTS is more practical?).

    Sooo, overall, the course structures and teaching have been a slight let down (compared to what I experienced last year), but I've been way less stressed, haven't had as many contact hours, and haven't been drowning in work. I've basically been cruising. Granted, it will probably get hard in future years, so hopefully someone in 2nd year + can enlighten us both on that? lol.

    I dunno if I've answered your question, it was kinda broad but if you want to know anything else let me know.
    Have you done the Diploma yet?

    I'm thinking about dropping it since it seems pretty useless and everyone i ask says that you need to somehow find an internship for 9 months straight which is really difficult, and you can't even graduate until you complete it.

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Hey Clara thanks a lot for your answers.

    So what was the reason why you left UNSW? Was it because you felt like you were struggling in the subjects?
    The Programming Fundamentals unit you did is probably similar to comp115 at maq. That seems weird but I find that I learn by myself better haha, I like to do stuff on my own (apps and web) but at maq theres heaps of exams and I cant really do much. The introduction to programming (COMP115) unit we had to do 6 exams in total for arrays, functions etc idk if its the same in UTS.

    Since you did some comp units at unsw did you have to redo them at uts? I dont know if it is possible but if I transfer in mid-year will I get credit for the units I did, such as intro to programming? (i dont really want to do them again lol)

    I just cant decide what I should go for, but I want to do computer science.

    Here are my choices:
    https://www.engineering.unsw.edu.au/...mputer-science
    http://sydney.edu.au/engineering/pub...ence-flyer.pdf
    http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/courses/c09119.html

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Toxin View Post
    UTS Bachelor of IT isn't computer science, there's very little to no math in the entire course, i'm currently in my 2nd year and haven't used anything more than simple arithmetic. The UNSW course is real computer science with very intensive mathematics, UTS doesn't have any course programs that offer this, it mainly focuses on how programming incorporates in the real world business environment.

    Now the teaching at UTS is absolutely atrocious, you're better off just self learning, many of the lecturers are terrible and the tutors don't even actively teach you until you ask a question, in which most of the time they are clueless. There's also a ton of group assessments, my next semester has subjects that all have group projects, which is really irritating since there's many foreign students who can't even communicate properly or just don't care.

    So really UTS offers close to nothing, if i could go back i'd probably go to TAFE and get an Diploma in IT instead. However in regards to your question, if you want hands on practical real world programming and IT then UTS (or TAFE) is the way to go, otherwise just go to UNSW for real computer science with all the intense maths and theory, you're likely to become a much better programmer in that course since it teaches you a very high level of abstract thinking.
    In this guide it says that they have discrete maths, data structures and algorithms etc just like any computer science degree..
    http://www.uac.edu.au/undergraduate/...s/603230.shtml

    I saw UWS have computer science degree as well but not sure how good it is.
    http://www.uac.edu.au/undergraduate/...s/724000.shtml

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoogk0s View Post
    Hey Clara thanks a lot for your answers.

    So what was the reason why you left UNSW? Was it because you felt like you were struggling in the subjects?
    The Programming Fundamentals unit you did is probably similar to comp115 at maq. That seems weird but I find that I learn by myself better haha, I like to do stuff on my own (apps and web) but at maq theres heaps of exams and I cant really do much. The introduction to programming (COMP115) unit we had to do 6 exams in total for arrays, functions etc idk if its the same in UTS.

    Since you did some comp units at unsw did you have to redo them at uts? I dont know if it is possible but if I transfer in mid-year will I get credit for the units I did, such as intro to programming? (i dont really want to do them again lol)

    I just cant decide what I should go for, but I want to do computer science.

    Here are my choices:
    https://www.engineering.unsw.edu.au/...mputer-science
    http://sydney.edu.au/engineering/pub...ence-flyer.pdf
    http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/courses/c09119.html
    no worries!
    I had initially started a biotechnology degree but wasn't enjoying it as much as i thought i would (and the chemistry and math at UNSW were like death for me) and I was really conflicted as I wanted to something more like animation or programming. So i decided to change to games development as it has both the programming and the creative aspect. Whether or not I want to continue with it i still don't know. I will ride it out till the end of the year and if i still get pissed off with the teaching/end up getting sick of programming i may consider changing my degree again .-. (forever in first year .___.)

    Is comp115 taught in java or another oo language?
    The first year intro computing courses at UNSW are taught in C and they're pretty hardcore so I'm not sure they will carry over your comp115 unless the subjects are very similarly structured. UTS wouldn't accept my comp1911 in credit recognition for programming fundamentals due to the difference in languages we learnt so i had to suffer through the basics all over again.

    As for the UTS programming fundamentals, we had to do mastery tests every week under exam conditions. There's like 22 'tests' in total and you need to pass the test you're currently on before you can move onto the next one if that makes sense. It honestly wasn't bad though, I worked out most of the programs on my own since the lectures AND youtube videos were no help at alllll. But the lecturer also uploads the answers to the tests so you can memorise the programs beforehand which is what a lot of people ended up doing. Really, I feel that it was a total joke and I'm kind of hoping future programming courses aren't the same.

    Honestly, at UNSW you're going to have a lot of pressure on you as many of the assessments in the semester aren't too heavy weighted and the engineering and science/math courses have got 50-60+% final exams so keep that in mind for when you decide which uni you want to change to. I personally found it really stressful to the point i was constantly upset.

    I think Sydney and UNSW are fairly similar in their difficulty, and have better teaching than UTS in most respects. Then again, it's also up to the individual, if you want to learn then you will learn regardless of where you go.
    Also, I feel like a lot of people are going to say "go for UNSW/USYD bc prestigious comp sci degree" but don't let that cloud your judgement, like do what you feel is right for you and what you think will make you happiest.

    I nearly went for UTS comp sci rather than games dev, but the math was the deal breaker for me since i had that terrible experience of failing math last year at UNSW, like it actually scarred me I'm not even joking. Despite that, I actually really miss UNSW and kind of want to go back, but I just don't know what I'd study.
    Last edited by Clara_Oswald; 19 Jun 2017 at 3:33 AM.
    BSc in idk wat @ unsw

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Toxin View Post
    UTS Bachelor of IT isn't computer science, there's very little to no math in the entire course, i'm currently in my 2nd year and haven't used anything more than simple arithmetic. The UNSW course is real computer science with very intensive mathematics, UTS doesn't have any course programs that offer this, it mainly focuses on how programming incorporates in the real world business environment.

    Now the teaching at UTS is absolutely atrocious, you're better off just self learning, many of the lecturers are terrible and the tutors don't even actively teach you until you ask a question, in which most of the time they are clueless. There's also a ton of group assessments, my next semester has subjects that all have group projects, which is really irritating since there's many foreign students who can't even communicate properly or just don't care.

    So really UTS offers close to nothing, if i could go back i'd probably go to TAFE and get an Diploma in IT instead. However in regards to your question, if you want hands on practical real world programming and IT then UTS (or TAFE) is the way to go, otherwise just go to UNSW for real computer science with all the intense maths and theory, you're likely to become a much better programmer in that course since it teaches you a very high level of abstract thinking.
    tbh UNSW has a LOOOOT of international students. sometimes i'd wonder if there were more international students than local students and a lot of them have terrible english too so @OP wherever you go, you'll have to deal with international students.

    and as much as i've dissed the teaching at UTS, I wouldn't say it's is completely, completely terrible though, the facilities are really nice and some of the courses they offer seem pretty cool. and @OP, even though lethal toxin thinks that you'll become a better programmer by going to UNSW, you can't just rely on that bc i knew people who did jack shit and kept failing courses. it is literally up to the individual and the amount of work you decide to put in. you can still extend yourself and become a good programmer whether you're at UTS or UNSW or wherever.

    forgot to say, UTS comp sci does have math. they do discrete math, stats, linear algebra and some modelling thing.
    Last edited by Clara_Oswald; 19 Jun 2017 at 3:36 AM.
    BSc in idk wat @ unsw

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Toxin View Post
    Have you done the Diploma yet?

    I'm thinking about dropping it since it seems pretty useless and everyone i ask says that you need to somehow find an internship for 9 months straight which is really difficult, and you can't even graduate until you complete it.

    nah i haven't bc i'm in first year and also I'm not doing BScIT, I've just had to do all the core IT subjects for this semester as part of my degree.
    I didn't even realise you could drop the diploma. Like the whole professional practice thing was the reason i didn't pick the IT degree in the end tbh, i thought it was a little weird doing it in the middle of the degree.
    BSc in idk wat @ unsw

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoogk0s View Post
    In this guide it says that they have discrete maths, data structures and algorithms etc just like any computer science degree..
    http://www.uac.edu.au/undergraduate/...s/603230.shtml

    I saw UWS have computer science degree as well but not sure how good it is.
    http://www.uac.edu.au/undergraduate/...s/724000.shtml
    After looking it up, to my surprise there actually is a full comp sci course at UTS

    https://www.uts.edu.au/future-studen...courses/c09119

    It must be new because i could never find it before, i think i might actually transfer into it and complete the math subjects haha.

    The atar cut off is also pretty low, only 80.10, i think you should go for it.

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clara_Oswald View Post
    no worries!
    I had initially started a biotechnology degree but wasn't enjoying it as much as i thought i would (and the chemistry and math at UNSW were like death for me) and I was really conflicted as I wanted to something more like animation or programming. So i decided to change to games development as it has both the programming and the creative aspect. Whether or not I want to continue with it i still don't know. I will ride it out till the end of the year and if i still get pissed off with the teaching/end up getting sick of programming i may consider changing my degree again .-. (forever in first year .___.)

    Is comp115 taught in java or another oo language?
    The first year intro computing courses at UNSW are taught in C and they're pretty hardcore so I'm not sure they will carry over your comp115 unless the subjects are very similarly structured. UTS wouldn't accept my comp1911 in credit recognition for programming fundamentals due to the difference in languages we learnt so i had to suffer through the basics all over again.

    As for the UTS programming fundamentals, we had to do mastery tests every week under exam conditions. There's like 22 'tests' in total and you need to pass the test you're currently on before you can move onto the next one if that makes sense. It honestly wasn't bad though, I worked out most of the programs on my own since the lectures AND youtube videos were no help at alllll. But the lecturer also uploads the answers to the tests so you can memorise the programs beforehand which is what a lot of people ended up doing. Really, I feel that it was a total joke and I'm kind of hoping future programming courses aren't the same.

    Honestly, at UNSW you're going to have a lot of pressure on you as many of the assessments in the semester aren't too heavy weighted and the engineering and science/math courses have got 50-60+% final exams so keep that in mind for when you decide which uni you want to change to. I personally found it really stressful to the point i was constantly upset.

    I think Sydney and UNSW are fairly similar in their difficulty, and have better teaching than UTS in most respects. Then again, it's also up to the individual, if you want to learn then you will learn regardless of where you go.
    Also, I feel like a lot of people are going to say "go for UNSW/USYD bc prestigious comp sci degree" but don't let that cloud your judgement, like do what you feel is right for you and what you think will make you happiest.

    I nearly went for UTS comp sci rather than games dev, but the math was the deal breaker for me since i had that terrible experience of failing math last year at UNSW, like it actually scarred me I'm not even joking. Despite that, I actually really miss UNSW and kind of want to go back, but I just don't know what I'd study.
    I actually wanted to do a game specific degree which they offer at maq and it has a mix of software, games and maths units but I didn't go for it, I can still do games design as electives (if I stay there lol).

    yeah COMP115 is based on the java language but using processing software which is easier and it is mostly for the creative side. So basically at macq we have comp115 which is introduction to programming and next semester i will be doing comp125 fundementals of computer science which teaches elementary data structures and abstract data types, classes, stacks and stuff like that, you might of done it. I think all of that is combined in one unit at UNSW that is why it is hardcore? or I might be wrong.

    That sucks, so that would be the case for me as well if I did transfer. Do you at least get credit for the units you did and count them as electives?
    Well I am already quite worried at macq for next sem as I will be doing discrete maths, UNSW even has more maths units. I am terrible at maths too and you're scaring me hahah.
    I seen UWS do have CS program and the units look similar to any CS program, but I don't know if it is any good.

    https://www.westernsydney.edu.au/fut...mputer_science

    You are right tho any CS is going to be the same at the end, I am just going to take any offer I get lol but not sure if I can transfer in mid-year.

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoogk0s View Post
    I actually wanted to do a game specific degree which they offer at maq and it has a mix of software, games and maths units but I didn't go for it, I can still do games design as electives (if I stay there lol).

    yeah COMP115 is based on the java language but using processing software which is easier and it is mostly for the creative side. So basically at macq we have comp115 which is introduction to programming and next semester i will be doing comp125 fundementals of computer science which teaches elementary data structures and abstract data types, classes, stacks and stuff like that, you might of done it. I think all of that is combined in one unit at UNSW that is why it is hardcore? or I might be wrong.

    That sucks, so that would be the case for me as well if I did transfer. Do you at least get credit for the units you did and count them as electives?
    Well I am already quite worried at macq for next sem as I will be doing discrete maths, UNSW even has more maths units. I am terrible at maths too and you're scaring me hahah.
    I seen UWS do have CS program and the units look similar to any CS program, but I don't know if it is any good.

    https://www.westernsydney.edu.au/fut...mputer_science

    You are right tho any CS is going to be the same at the end, I am just going to take any offer I get lol but not sure if I can transfer in mid-year.
    soz i just saw this lol.

    if you were interested, this is the course i did last year, btw, the actual CS students had to do a similar course to ours but just crammed more stuff into it ))))
    http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~cs1911/1...seOutline.html

    and this is what we covered in programming fundamentals:
    1. The BlueJ environment.
    2. Data Flow: assignment; input, output; numeric expressions, and calculations.
    3. OO Programming: class; object; constructor; visibility modifiers; local variables.
    4. Control Flow: selection and repetition.
    5. Data Structures and Basic Algorithms: arrays; sorting and searching.
    6. Design notations, processes, and rules

    As for credit rec, I did science subjects last year and 2 computing subjects (comp1911 and databases). I got credits for all my science courses (as electives) and I got the credit for databases so i don't have to take that course next year. I can go for an unspecified elective for my comp1911, i just haven't bothered to go down yet (I'm still pissed with them for making me come back 3 times because apparently the course outline "wasn't detailed enough" and wouldn't accept it).

    UNSW just crams a lot into their courses and make their stuff challenging because of their reputation and they assume that "since you all got into this fine institution, you should be capable of doing this." Like for my math course last year, we did 4 topics a week and only had two 1 hour tutorials a week to cover it but idk how it is anywhere else though lol.

    the UWS course looks pretty standard.

    I am like 90% sure you can do mid year transfer at UTS. you could even do games dev here, if that is what you're interested in
    BSc in idk wat @ unsw

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Toxin View Post
    After looking it up, to my surprise there actually is a full comp sci course at UTS

    https://www.uts.edu.au/future-studen...courses/c09119

    It must be new because i could never find it before, i think i might actually transfer into it and complete the math subjects haha.

    The atar cut off is also pretty low, only 80.10, i think you should go for it.
    Yeah, I think it is new. I was looking at transferring at the beginning of the year and they were like "oh yeah we expect the cut off to be above 90" and i was like lol um nvm. im kinda surprised it's actually that low, i actually would've got in. even though I haaaaated math last year and i suck, i kinda miss the challenge. maybe i should transfer to comp sci too .__.
    BSc in idk wat @ unsw

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clara_Oswald View Post
    soz i just saw this lol.

    if you were interested, this is the course i did last year, btw, the actual CS students had to do a similar course to ours but just crammed more stuff into it ))))
    http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~cs1911/1...seOutline.html

    and this is what we covered in programming fundamentals:
    1. The BlueJ environment.
    2. Data Flow: assignment; input, output; numeric expressions, and calculations.
    3. OO Programming: class; object; constructor; visibility modifiers; local variables.
    4. Control Flow: selection and repetition.
    5. Data Structures and Basic Algorithms: arrays; sorting and searching.
    6. Design notations, processes, and rules

    As for credit rec, I did science subjects last year and 2 computing subjects (comp1911 and databases). I got credits for all my science courses (as electives) and I got the credit for databases so i don't have to take that course next year. I can go for an unspecified elective for my comp1911, i just haven't bothered to go down yet (I'm still pissed with them for making me come back 3 times because apparently the course outline "wasn't detailed enough" and wouldn't accept it).

    UNSW just crams a lot into their courses and make their stuff challenging because of their reputation and they assume that "since you all got into this fine institution, you should be capable of doing this." Like for my math course last year, we did 4 topics a week and only had two 1 hour tutorials a week to cover it but idk how it is anywhere else though lol.

    the UWS course looks pretty standard.

    I am like 90% sure you can do mid year transfer at UTS. you could even do games dev here, if that is what you're interested in
    Damn thats quiet different to the topics we did in COMP115. They teach basic data structures in another unit. but we did programming fundementals, data flow and control so I will probably still have to redo it. I dont know why MAQ structured the unit like that.

    COMP115:
    basic computing and programming concepts
    program design and problem solving
    programming fundamentals

    COMP125:
    elementary data structures
    abstract data types
    stacks,linkedlist
    Sorting, Searching

    that sounds good I can at least get some credit as electives.

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Toxin View Post
    Have you done the Diploma yet?

    I'm thinking about dropping it since it seems pretty useless and everyone i ask says that you need to somehow find an internship for 9 months straight which is really difficult, and you can't even graduate until you complete it.
    I'm also considering dropping it if that is possible. It now seems to me like a massive waste of effort, when you could just get one during the summer or something without the constraints of UTS. Most of the available internships are during the summer anyway.

    Also, knowing UTS, they will probably still charge fees for those subjects you have to take during the internship.

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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by gergie86 View Post
    Also, knowing UTS, they will probably still charge fees for those subjects you have to take during the internship.
    That's an interesting point actually.

    For engineering at least, the subjects were free and worth no credit points. It actually caused problems with concession - not a big problem for travel, but it had pretty big implications for people receiving centrelink I believe. So I believe the subjects were replaced with ones with a credit point value, but I assume they would also have a fee as a result.
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    Re: CS & IT degrees worth it at UTS?

    wb software engo then at uts? isn't that considered somewhat similar to a cs degree?
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