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Thread: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

  1. #1
    Junior Member Jaxxnuts's Avatar
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    Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    So once you all finish the HSC, you will get an ATAR which will determine what university course you do. For those who do not get in (due to not meeting the ATAR cutoff) you would do an internal transfer (which could take 6months-1 year). Also there are people saying "employers don't care about your ATAR" and mental health support networks saying "there's life after year 12"

    So for all current year 12 students, do you personally believe the HSC is meaningless or is it worth trying to gain some self satisfaction out of working hard (and stressing yourself over bad exam results)

    What does one gain from doing well in the HSC (other than securing a desired uni course easier and self satisfaction of trying hard and working your butt off)

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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxxnuts View Post
    So once you all finish the HSC, you will get an ATAR which will determine what university course you do. For those who do not get in (due to not meeting the ATAR cutoff) you would do an internal transfer (which could take 6months-1 year). Also there are people saying "employers don't care about your ATAR" and mental health support networks saying "there's life after year 12"

    So for all current year 12 students, do you personally believe the HSC is meaningless or is it worth trying to gain some self satisfaction out of working hard (and stressing yourself over bad exam results)

    What does one gain from doing well in the HSC (other than securing a desired uni course easier and self satisfaction of trying hard and working your butt off)
    Well the main goal is to get your university course so you won't have to do a boring job for the rest of your life.

    Also it's just one year of working really hard, there's no point putting 12-13 years of schooling to waste.

    I guess some other goals can include - making parents proud, satisfaction that your hard work paid off, scholarships.
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    Senior Member jazz519's Avatar
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    getting into your course and the uni you want is probably the main point, but if you do very well in the hsc and have like some extra curricular stuff on the side too, there's a good chance you will get some type of scholarship if you apply for one which will help you pay off your hecs debt faster or you won't have any at all.

    It might also open another opportunity for you, through being able to get paid for doing tutoring at a centre or privately
    Last edited by jazz519; 29 Jul 2017 at 9:54 PM.
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Quote Originally Posted by jazz519 View Post
    getting into your course and the uni you want is probably the main point, but if you do very well in the hsc and have like some extra curricular stuff on the side too, there's a good chance you will get some type of scholarship if you apply for one which will help you pay off your hecs debt faster or you won't have any at all.

    It might also open another opportunity for you, through being able to get paid for doing tutoring at a centre or privately
    This. Most tutoring colleges require at least ATAR 95+ to be considered. Additionally, if you get all rounders/band 6 in any subjects, it's like you're automatically qualified to tutor in that subject, and people are willing to pay (privately) for inflated costs esp. If you're an all rounder. Also you get scholarships and welcome lunches to try and entice you to go to their uni (free food and money, who wouldn't want that?!)

    Apart from that, no one really gives a shit once you get into uni. No one will go around asking for your atar, they'll go asking for your course and majors, so really your atar is a means to get into that desired course/very similar course to the target course. And who knows, once you get to uni, perhaps you'll find uni isn't for you, or end up switching to a completely different degree. I'm sure jazz will agree, uni is harder, but you're not consumed by that same stress of getting an atar to get into a degree.
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    Junior Member Jaxxnuts's Avatar
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbird_14 View Post
    This. Most tutoring colleges require at least ATAR 95+ to be considered. Additionally, if you get all rounders/band 6 in any subjects, it's like you're automatically qualified to tutor in that subject, and people are willing to pay (privately) for inflated costs esp. If you're an all rounder. Also you get scholarships and welcome lunches to try and entice you to go to their uni (free food and money, who wouldn't want that?!)

    Apart from that, no one really gives a shit once you get into uni. No one will go around asking for your atar, they'll go asking for your course and majors, so really your atar is a means to get into that desired course/very similar course to the target course. And who knows, once you get to uni, perhaps you'll find uni isn't for you, or end up switching to a completely different degree. I'm sure jazz will agree, uni is harder, but you're not consumed by that same stress of getting an atar to get into a degree.
    But the syllabus will change so no point in tutoring things like chem or physics (unless you do it at uni)

    I guess scholarships would be one of the main factors for motivation in getting a high ATAR

    But besides tutoring, getting into a uni course as part of first preference and scholarships, an ATAR is meaningless (I suppose)?

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    Member Mathew587's Avatar
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Do you want to get into a specific degree in uni?
    Do you want to get a decent scholarship?
    Do you want to make yourself and your parents proud?
    Do you want more opportunities in life?
    Do you want to tutor after high school?

    If you said yes to any of the above, then your atar is important
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    Junior Member Jaxxnuts's Avatar
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathew587 View Post
    Do you want to get into a specific degree in uni?
    Do you want to get a decent scholarship?
    Do you want to make yourself and your parents proud?
    Do you want more opportunities in life?
    Do you want to tutor after high school?

    If you said yes to any of the above, then your atar is important
    Did you read any of the posts above?

    1. If you don't make the ATAR cutoff then you can do an internal transfer which would take 6months-1 year
    2. All a scholarship does (to my knowledge) is help pay off some uni fees. Even if you don't have a scholarship you can still pay off HECs debt (I think)
    3. Yes but years after your HSC there are things you will need to be more concerned about other than how you did in year 12 a couple of years back
    4. How does an ATAR/bad HSC mark limit opportunities?
    5. Tutoring isn't about what ATAR you get. It's mainly how you communicate your knowledge to others effectively. There are 99+ ATAR students who don't have the right communication skills to tutor others and there are some other not so great ATAR students who have the ability to communicate their knowledge to others effectively

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    I love trials pikachu975's Avatar
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxxnuts View Post
    Did you read any of the posts above?

    1. If you don't make the ATAR cutoff then you can do an internal transfer which would take 6months-1 year
    2. All a scholarship does (to my knowledge) is help pay off some uni fees. Even if you don't have a scholarship you can still pay off HECs debt (I think)
    3. Yes but years after your HSC there are things you will need to be more concerned about other than how you did in year 12 a couple of years back
    4. How does an ATAR/bad HSC mark limit opportunities?
    5. Tutoring isn't about what ATAR you get. It's mainly how you communicate your knowledge to others effectively. There are 99+ ATAR students who don't have the right communication skills to tutor others and there are some other not so great ATAR students who have the ability to communicate their knowledge to others effectively
    1) Internal transfer still requires a good mark in uni so you gotta study hard anyway, why delay it by one year?
    2) Scholarships can still give you benefits such as the Talented Students Program or Co-Op. Also HECS fees are huge, so any scholarship helps unless you want to pay off an extra 10k or something.
    3) Making your parents proud is still important for most people because your parents have spent a lot of money on you so youw ant to make the most of it.
    4) Basically limits your courses so you have to transfer but if you don't do well in the uni course you can"t transfer so it's risky. Maybe an internship will ask for your ATAR too.
    5) Tutoring still requires a band 6 in a subject to tutor for the most part and also most people would prefer 99+ atar tutors because obviously they know how to study effectively so they can also help you with study tips and skills, not just the subject. However a lot of people also prefer those with experience.
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    Moderator enoilgam's Avatar
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Seven years on from my HSC and realistically, I believe it's largely meaningless under most circumstances. The whole "You need to do well so you can get a good job and have a good future" is so far removed from reality to the point of being laughable. Keep in mind a couple things:

    - You can easily transfer into almost any degree throughout uni
    - Universities these days are primarily concerned about enrolment, so entry scores are dropping across the board
    - Employers in this day and age are sticking to the mantra of "Grades arent the best indicator of how a person will perform in the workplace" to the point where they are almost against people who do well at school/uni

    Australia is not China/Japan/Korea. In those countries, if you get a bad mark in High School, then you definitely wont have any opportunities. Australia is a super laid back country with a "she'll be right mate" attitude, we just dont value academic performance and prestige like those countries do. Now, I disagree with both philosophies, but that's irrelevant.

    Working in HR I see it all the time, marks, grades and all that jazz are just meaningless. I mean, look at me and my best mate. We both went to the same high school and did the exact same degree/major at uni. He got 35 ATAR points less than me and had a pass average at uni versus my distinction average. Right now, we pretty much have almost exactly the same job. Why did this happen? Simply because he played the game correctly and put in his effort just where he needed to (namely with getting the right work experience/connections). An ATAR/GPA doesnt hold a candle to that sort of thing.

    That all being said, the real big advantage of an ATAR is scholarships, which will give you a leg up. This is especially true for ones that pay out cash and let you decide whether to pay for the degree or not - you can use this to save a good chunk of a property deposit (which believe me, is a HUGE advantage).
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    Junior Member Jaxxnuts's Avatar
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Quote Originally Posted by pikachu975 View Post
    1) Internal transfer still requires a good mark in uni so you gotta study hard anyway, why delay it by one year?
    2) Scholarships can still give you benefits such as the Talented Students Program or Co-Op. Also HECS fees are huge, so any scholarship helps unless you want to pay off an extra 10k or something.
    3) Making your parents proud is still important for most people because your parents have spent a lot of money on you so youw ant to make the most of it.
    4) Basically limits your courses so you have to transfer but if you don't do well in the uni course you can"t transfer so it's risky. Maybe an internship will ask for your ATAR too.
    5) Tutoring still requires a band 6 in a subject to tutor for the most part and also most people would prefer 99+ atar tutors because obviously they know how to study effectively so they can also help you with study tips and skills, not just the subject. However a lot of people also prefer those with experience.
    1. I guess delaying it by one year is a second choice if you can't get it first
    2. Ok the only thing the HSC is useful for is Scholarships I guess
    3. True but not everyone who does well in the HSC goes tutoring. In fact some students who go tutoring don't perform as well as their tutored counterparts so I guess the main reason behind this is motivation
    4. Fair point but I guess this comes with the fact that if you don't get your required ATAR at first, you do an internal transfer. I thought no one cared about your ATAR after high school
    5. Not all tutors are past B6 and 99+ ATAR students (although most are). You also have to take into account that there are qualified teachers who tutor as well as uni professors and students who have degrees in maths, physics, chemistry, biology, etc. I even hear there are dodgy old asian maths tutors who are unqualified and just tutor maths to make a living-nothing else. If a student needs to seek advice from a B6/99+ ATAR student then they can come onto this forum to seek for advice with regards to studying and cramming effectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    Seven years on from my HSC and realistically, I believe it's largely meaningless under most circumstances. The whole "You need to do well so you can get a good job and have a good future" is so far removed from reality to the point of being laughable. Keep in mind a couple things:

    - You can easily transfer into almost any degree throughout uni
    - Universities these days are primarily concerned about enrolment, so entry scores are dropping across the board
    - Employers in this day and age are sticking to the mantra of "Grades arent the best indicator of how a person will perform in the workplace" to the point where they are almost against people who do well at school/uni

    Australia is not China/Japan/Korea. In those countries, if you get a bad mark in High School, then you definitely wont have any opportunities. Australia is a super laid back country with a "she'll be right mate" attitude, we just dont value academic performance and prestige like those countries do. Now, I disagree with both philosophies, but that's irrelevant.

    Working in HR I see it all the time, marks, grades and all that jazz are just meaningless. I mean, look at me and my best mate. We both went to the same high school and did the exact same degree/major at uni. He got 35 ATAR points less than me and had a pass average at uni versus my distinction average. Right now, we pretty much have almost exactly the same job. Why did this happen? Simply because he played the game correctly and put in his effort just where he needed to (namely with getting the right work experience/connections). An ATAR/GPA doesnt hold a candle to that sort of thing.

    That all being said, the real big advantage of an ATAR is scholarships, which will give you a leg up. This is especially true for ones that pay out cash and let you decide whether to pay for the degree or not - you can use this to save a good chunk of a property deposit (which believe me, is a HUGE advantage).
    With regards to transferring easily, I think that is applicable for all uni courses besides super competitive courses such as Medicine (and I guess actuarial studies as well as law)

    But doesn't an ATAR show people your work ethic in your final year of high school (although mindsets would be completely different in the 2 cases)?
    Last edited by Jaxxnuts; 30 Jul 2017 at 6:29 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator enoilgam's Avatar
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    Re: Do you guys think the HSC is something meaningless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxxnuts View Post
    With regards to transferring easily, I think that is applicable for all uni courses besides super competitive courses such as Medicine (and I guess actuarial studies as well as law)

    But doesn't an ATAR show people your work ethic in your final year of high school (although mindsets would be completely different in the 2 cases)?
    Personally, I believe it does. I don't fully subscribe to the view that an ATAR/GPA isnt a good indicator of how a person will do in the workforce. This is from a post I made a few months back:

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    When you're hiring graduates, you are essentially hiring them on soft skills, which are far more difficult to assess than hard skills. An ATAR is one of the few objective data points you can collect from a graduate and it offers a good point of comparison.

    Overall, I think grades have been significantly devalued as a tool for evaluating graduates. The focus on cultural fit has got to the point where grades are almost considered a non factor or check box item. To me, I dont think grades are the most important factor in hiring graduates, but it is important. To me, an ATAR and GPA/WAM indicate the following about a candidate:

    - Their committment to achievement and succeeding at what they do
    - Their ability to learn/absorb information and turn that into results
    - To a lesser extent, their competence in their field (this is especially the case for more technical fields like law)

    I also like to compare a persons ATAR with their WAM/GPA. To me, if a person has a high ATAR and high GPA that indicates that they can succeed in different environments, as opposed to someone who performs poorly in one vs the other. I like seeing a person who has succeeded consistently throughout their life.

    As I said though, marks arent the only factor and I still think cultural fit/experience is more important. However, I personally value grades a lot more than most.
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