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Thread: Small Cohort

  1. #1
    Junior Member supR's Avatar
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    Small Cohort

    Hey guys, I go to a rank ~120 school with a cohort of around 100 students.

    My subjects -
    Chemistry - ~15 students
    Physics - ~14 students
    3u maths - ~19 students
    4u - 5 students
    Adv Eng - ~75 students
    Eco - Soon to be ~9 students

    Considering the small class size in some of my subjects, how will this affect the impact of my rank and where should I be aiming to maximise my atar?


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    Taking a break! dan964's Avatar
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    Re: Small Cohort

    Quote Originally Posted by supR View Post
    Hey guys, I go to a rank ~120 school with a cohort of around 100 students.

    My subjects -
    Chemistry - ~15 students
    Physics - ~14 students
    3u maths - ~19 students
    4u - 5 students
    Adv Eng - ~75 students
    Eco - Soon to be ~9 students

    Considering the small class size in some of my subjects, how will this affect the impact of my rank and where should I be aiming to maximise my atar?


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    I think cohort strength is very important with small cohort size. Because if the cohort is mixed or weak, that will affect you greatly except if you ranked first or maybe second.
    the only exception would be English here.
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    Senior Member jazz519's Avatar
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    Re: Small Cohort

    Quote Originally Posted by supR View Post
    Hey guys, I go to a rank ~120 school with a cohort of around 100 students.

    My subjects -
    Chemistry - ~15 students
    Physics - ~14 students
    3u maths - ~19 students
    4u - 5 students
    Adv Eng - ~75 students
    Eco - Soon to be ~9 students

    Considering the small class size in some of my subjects, how will this affect the impact of my rank and where should I be aiming to maximise my atar?


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    If you're class is strong then it's not really that much of a problem. we had 12 people physics 5 band6s. Chemistry 16 people 6 band 6s, 3u maths 18 students 16 band 6s. But it is good if you try work with the whole class. Since especially in chemistry and physics we worked together a lot in groups on Facebook, cause since its a small cohort you can make big improvements across the whole class if you share resources
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    New Member gallen88's Avatar
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    Re: Small Cohort

    Hi,

    For your circumstances it depends on the perform of your cohort as other people have stated. If your cohort performs very well - which it seems you do have a strong cohort from what I noticed on another thread, you will be fine. Take this for example: NOTE I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON SCALING SO THIS EXPLAINATION COULD BE OFF. THIS IS JUST FROM WHAT I HAVE READ AND HEARD FROM OTHER PEOPLE.

    Student A is completing Chemistry at School A. The cohort has around 12 people and their rank is 7/12. However, the grade average is 81% and Student A earned 91% in their exams as an average. Since the cohort has done very well everyone will be scaled up (I'm not super accurate with scaling so bare with me here and I'm sorry for screwing up with the scaling) which will be very benefical for Student A's ATAR. Student B is completing Chemistry as well at School B. They are at the top of their cohort 1/12 with a 80% average, yet, the class average is 42%. This won't be beneficial as Student B will be scaled up as the outlier (not as much as Student A) but the cohort average can bring them down. Student B will still receive the top rank and marks but this will impact their ATAR due to the poor performance of the cohort.

    - Basically to answer your question: You should be aiming for high ranks BUT if your cohort is doing very well (this is if people in your classes and you are pulling in 80% - 100% for all your subejcts/exams) and you aren't in the top 3 don't be disheartened. All you need to do is just make sure you continue pulling in strong marks (this is if you and other people are pulling in 80% - 100% for all your subejcts/exams). If your cohort isn't too good (low percentage averages around 50% or less) aim for top three - more importantly make sure you're the outlier. If you're first with 91% and the average of the cohort is 55% then you'll be safe.

    Ranks are important, I know how you are feeling with the pressure as well. What you need to ask yourself is - how does everyone else go with their exams? If they are doing very well (like a high average some schools receive 70% - 95% averages) then it is all okay, but do make sure you are keeping up with your class average. No celebration if you're saying "hey our Physics class average is 81% but I'm pulling in 42% for an average and everyong else is pulling in 95% averages". However, if your cohort is perfoming badly - not the "70% I'm a failure" attitude - around below 50% then you should be aiming for 1st or 2nd place ranking to be the outlier and not be scaled down completely.

    All the best for your subjects - notice you're an Extension 2 Math student too - just work hard, DON'T BURN OUT, you'll be fine and definetly achieve your goal.
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  5. #5
    Junior Member supR's Avatar
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    Re: Small Cohort

    Quote Originally Posted by gallen88 View Post
    Hi,

    For your circumstances it depends on the perform of your cohort as other people have stated. If your cohort performs very well - which it seems you do have a strong cohort from what I noticed on another thread, you will be fine. Take this for example: NOTE I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON SCALING SO THIS EXPLAINATION COULD BE OFF. THIS IS JUST FROM WHAT I HAVE READ AND HEARD FROM OTHER PEOPLE.

    Student A is completing Chemistry at School A. The cohort has around 12 people and their rank is 7/12. However, the grade average is 81% and Student A earned 91% in their exams as an average. Since the cohort has done very well everyone will be scaled up (I'm not super accurate with scaling so bare with me here and I'm sorry for screwing up with the scaling) which will be very benefical for Student A's ATAR. Student B is completing Chemistry as well at School B. They are at the top of their cohort 1/12 with a 80% average, yet, the class average is 42%. This won't be beneficial as Student B will be scaled up as the outlier (not as much as Student A) but the cohort average can bring them down. Student B will still receive the top rank and marks but this will impact their ATAR due to the poor performance of the cohort.

    - Basically to answer your question: You should be aiming for high ranks BUT if your cohort is doing very well (this is if people in your classes and you are pulling in 80% - 100% for all your subejcts/exams) and you aren't in the top 3 don't be disheartened. All you need to do is just make sure you continue pulling in strong marks (this is if you and other people are pulling in 80% - 100% for all your subejcts/exams). If your cohort isn't too good (low percentage averages around 50% or less) aim for top three - more importantly make sure you're the outlier. If you're first with 91% and the average of the cohort is 55% then you'll be safe.

    Ranks are important, I know how you are feeling with the pressure as well. What you need to ask yourself is - how does everyone else go with their exams? If they are doing very well (like a high average some schools receive 70% - 95% averages) then it is all okay, but do make sure you are keeping up with your class average. No celebration if you're saying "hey our Physics class average is 81% but I'm pulling in 42% for an average and everyong else is pulling in 95% averages". However, if your cohort is perfoming badly - not the "70% I'm a failure" attitude - around below 50% then you should be aiming for 1st or 2nd place ranking to be the outlier and not be scaled down completely.

    All the best for your subjects - notice you're an Extension 2 Math student too - just work hard, DON'T BURN OUT, you'll be fine and definetly achieve your goal.
    Thanks for the thorough response. I enjoyed reading your post and it was helpful!


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    Re: Small Cohort

    my cohort is also quite small (100ish as well). here are the sizes and approximate rankings in each:

    eng adv - 78 (my ranking: probably in the 50s)
    gen maths - 45 (my ranking: somewhere in the top 18)
    ancient - 5 (my ranking: 4)
    business - 56 (my ranking: somewhere in the top 18)
    french - 4 (my ranking: 4)

    my school is ranked around 40 (probably going to drop quite a bit this year). how will this impact my atar?
    Last edited by Flop55; 11 Nov 2017 at 3:46 PM.
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  7. #7
    procrastinator captainhelium's Avatar
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    Re: Small Cohort

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop55 View Post
    my cohort is also quite small (100ish as well). here are the sizes and approximate rankings in each:

    eng adv - 78 (my ranking: between 30 and 71)
    gen maths - 45 (my ranking: somewhere in the top 18)
    ancient - 5 (my ranking: 3 or 4)
    business - 56 (my ranking: somewhere in the top 18)
    french - 4 (my ranking: bottom)

    my school is ranked around 40 (probably going to drop quite a bit this year). how will this impact my atar?
    100 isn't too bad for cohort size (my cohort had around 48 people lol). But anyways yeah cohorts may impact your ATAR especially if you're in the middle of the pack. If you're near the top end (I would say around top 15ish%), then you probably won't be affected much, if at all. Remember that your school assessment mark contributes to 50% of your HSC mark for each subject.

    Also remember that it isn't only cohort size that matters but also cohort strength I think.

    If everyone in your grade performs well, then your school assessment mark shouldn't drag you down. Since your school rank is around the 40s, I'm assuming you have a pretty strong cohort so I wouldn't worry too much
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  8. #8
    procrastinator captainhelium's Avatar
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    Re: Small Cohort

    Quote Originally Posted by supR View Post
    Hey guys, I go to a rank ~120 school with a cohort of around 100 students.

    My subjects -
    Chemistry - ~15 students
    Physics - ~14 students
    3u maths - ~19 students
    4u - 5 students
    Adv Eng - ~75 students
    Eco - Soon to be ~9 students

    Considering the small class size in some of my subjects, how will this affect the impact of my rank and where should I be aiming to maximise my atar?


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    Yeah cohort sizes and strength do matter especially when in a small grade. If possible, try to aim for around the top ranks for each subject to ensure that your cohort doesn't drag you down if it is weak by any chance. Remember that rank 1 doesn't get affected by the cohort and will always receive the highest examination mark achieved by any student as their school assessment mark. However, your English class doesn't seem too bad in terms of size so you could probably be safe around the top 20ish.

    Also, if you aren't ranked 1st in some subjects such as Eco or 4U, try to minimise the gaps between ranks above you since the school moderation process involves taking into account the gaps between each rank.

    However, if your cohort is very strong, then don't be too worried about your ranks since a strong cohort shouldn't impact you negatively too much, if at all.

    Also, dw I was also in a similar situation. My class sizes were extremely small (we had 15 people for English Advanced!). Just believe you can achieve those top ranks
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