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Thread: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

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    Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    My Year 11 Maths class is one of the classes that accelerated the HSC 2U Maths course (we sat the trials with the Year 12s a few weeks ago). I'm not sure how it works and my school hardly gives any information on it but apparently the 2U acceleration is only offered to people doing 4U next year (I heard one of the teachers say during the trial exam that we're "not technically accelerating" it).

    Next year I'm dropping 3U English. I can either keep 3U Maths and do 11 units or go to 4U Maths which would be 12 units (I can't drop anything else). The uni degree I want to take assumes 3U knowledge but also "recommends" 4U.

    Most people do 10 units next year (and my Maths teacher told us 10 units is better) and I'm worried doing 12 might put me at a disadvantage - I can't drop anything other than 3U English. Also, 4U Maths has a reputation for being hard so I'm not sure whether it would be a good idea for me to take it even if it scales well.

    On the other hand, repeating the 2U course next year kind of seems like a waste, although I guess I could improve on my score. But I'm pretty sure my rank will be enough to get into 4U Maths next year and I also get the impression that my Maths teacher expects most of the class to be doing 4U. (So maybe it's not as hard as I think it is?)

    Any advice?

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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    why can't u drop something else other to bring it down to 10 units?
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squar3root View Post
    why can't u drop something else other to bring it down to 10 units?
    My other subjects are SDD, Chemistry and Physics.

    Physics is the one I'm doing least well in, but it's assumed knowledge for the uni course; SDD and Chemistry are my two best subjects so I don't want to drop them either.

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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    what is the uni course?

    if it is comp sci or engineering you do not need anything other than 3/4U math
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squar3root View Post
    what is the uni course?

    if it is comp sci or engineering you do not need anything other than 3/4U math
    I want to do Comp Eng + Comp Sci at UNSW.

    The course says 3U Maths and Physics are assumed knowledge.

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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by fan96 View Post
    I want to do Comp Eng + Comp Sci at UNSW.

    The course says 3U Maths and Physics are assumed knowledge.
    Firstly, you can't do a double degree in comp eng/comp sci unless you mean one or the other

    4U maths is ideal. The physics learnt in uni is completely different and there is a focus on mechanics/fluids/thermo etc as opposed to the stuff you learn in phys like "xyz scientist did this" etc
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Just take 4u and drop physics cause 4u is pretty fun but physics is just memorising
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squar3root View Post
    Firstly, you can't do a double degree in comp eng/comp sci unless you mean one or the other

    4U maths is ideal. The physics learnt in uni is completely different and there is a focus on mechanics/fluids/thermo etc as opposed to the stuff you learn in phys like "xyz scientist did this" etc
    What's this then? https://www.futurestudents.unsw.edu....gineering-hons

    Anyway, won't the physics taught in uni require parts of HSC Physics as a foundation? Specifically the formulae and the concepts in electricity.

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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by fan96 View Post
    What's this then? https://www.futurestudents.unsw.edu....gineering-hons

    Anyway, won't the physics taught in uni require parts of HSC Physics as a foundation? Specifically the formulae and the concepts in electricity.
    read in the degree rules under the section "Notes"
    Notes:
    Students are not permitted to declare a Bioinformatics Engineering, Computer Engineering, or Software Engineering major in the Bachelor of Engineering (Honours) in this dual award.
    Where students complete the requirements for the Bachelor of Engineering and the Bachelor of Science in less than 240 units of credit, the remaining elective courses taken to bring the total to 240 units of credit must be taken from the Faculty of Engineering
    - http://www.handbook.unsw.edu.au/unde...2016/3772.html

    basically you can't do computer science with a combination of comp eng, bioinfo or software. this is due to the overlapping subjects. You can do something like CompSci/Engineering(Electrical) but not CompSci/Engineering(Software)


    like I said before, physics learnt at uni is completely different. there is no foundation to be built upon from HSC physics. uni physics is basically maths
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squar3root View Post
    read in the degree rules under the section "Notes"

    - http://www.handbook.unsw.edu.au/unde...2016/3772.html

    basically you can't do computer science with a combination of comp eng, bioinfo or software. this is due to the overlapping subjects. You can do something like CompSci/Engineering(Electrical) but not CompSci/Engineering(Software)


    like I said before, physics learnt at uni is completely different. there is no foundation to be built upon from HSC physics. uni physics is basically maths
    Alright then. Thanks a lot for the help.

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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    4U isn't actually as hard as people say it is lol. If you're finding 2U/3U average to easy right now then you should be set for an e4 in 4U (since 4U has ridiculous scaling, even a 60-70/100 raw mark should be scaled to 90+ hsc mark).
    On the other hand, since you're currently accelerating, i recommend carrying the extra 4U unit until the end of the year when you get your 2U hsc marks back, and then make a decision on whether to keep it or not (if you do 4U your 2U mark won't count at all)
    Personally, i also accelerated 2U in year 11 (sounds like you also go sbhs?). I ended up getting 98 for 2U last year but i'm still doing 4U since i reckon i can get even better for 4U

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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by raz999 View Post
    4U isn't actually as hard as people say it is lol. If you're finding 2U/3U average to easy right now then you should be set for an e4 in 4U (since 4U has ridiculous scaling, even a 60-70/100 raw mark should be scaled to 90+ hsc mark).
    On the other hand, since you're currently accelerating, i recommend carrying the extra 4U unit until the end of the year when you get your 2U hsc marks back, and then make a decision on whether to keep it or not (if you do 4U your 2U mark won't count at all)
    Personally, i also accelerated 2U in year 11 (sounds like you also go sbhs?). I ended up getting 98 for 2U last year but i'm still doing 4U since i reckon i can get even better for 4U
    Yep I go SBHS.

    I didn't find the 2U content hard to remember, but applying it was a bit harder for me. I think I'm getting average marks so far. How does the 2U mark not counting in 4U work? A few people told me that the 3rd and 4th units of 4U count as 2 units each; is this true?

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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by fan96 View Post
    Yep I go SBHS.

    I didn't find the 2U content hard to remember, but applying it was a bit harder for me. I think I'm getting average marks so far. How does the 2U mark not counting in 4U work? A few people told me that the 3rd and 4th units of 4U count as 2 units each; is this true?
    2u doesn't count if you do 4 unit. 3 and 4 unit count as 2 units each.

    Also 2u and 3u are the same level then 4 unit is way harder like 10x harder than 2 unit but should be fine if you do a lot of papers to improve your problem solving skills.
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by fan96 View Post
    Yep I go SBHS.

    I didn't find the 2U content hard to remember, but applying it was a bit harder for me. I think I'm getting average marks so far. How does the 2U mark not counting in 4U work? A few people told me that the 3rd and 4th units of 4U count as 2 units each; is this true?
    To be honest I'm not really sure about how the 3rd and 4th unit of 4U work, but this much has to be clear to you: 4U english and 4U maths work completely differently.
    Say, if you do 4U english, then in year 12, you would be taking advanced, 3U and 4U english, and these 4 units of english would all count towards your ATAR.
    If you do 4U maths however, in year 12 you're only taking 3U and 4U classes. More importantly, only your 3U and 4U scores would be counting towards your ATAR. It still counts as 4 units towards the required 10 units for your HSC, but the difference is your 2U mark is completely neglected when calculating your ATAR. (This is why a guy who stateranked 2U in year 11 from our school 2 years ago ended up doing only 3U maths for his HSC)

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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by raz999 View Post
    To be honest I'm not really sure about how the 3rd and 4th unit of 4U work, but this much has to be clear to you: 4U english and 4U maths work completely differently.
    Say, if you do 4U english, then in year 12, you would be taking advanced, 3U and 4U english, and these 4 units of english would all count towards your ATAR.
    If you do 4U maths however, in year 12 you're only taking 3U and 4U classes. More importantly, only your 3U and 4U scores would be counting towards your ATAR. It still counts as 4 units towards the required 10 units for your HSC, but the difference is your 2U mark is completely neglected when calculating your ATAR. (This is why a guy who stateranked 2U in year 11 from our school 2 years ago ended up doing only 3U maths for his HSC)
    When you do 4u maths you're atar is calculated with an "Assumed 100%" for 2u, which is part of the reason why it scales so well
    However ext 1 and ext 2 maths count as 2 units each, totalling 4 units when you do both


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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by supR View Post
    When you do 4u maths you're atar is calculated with an "Assumed 100%" for 2u, which is part of the reason why it scales so well
    However ext 1 and ext 2 maths count as 2 units each, totalling 4 units when you do both
    I don't think this makes any sense.

    Let's assume that they do hypothetically give you 100% 2U mark (which they don't). It does absolutely nothing to your ATAR, because there is no 2U component in the calculation of your ATAR. So this does not explain why 4U scales so well.

    Secondly, they don't just give you 100 assumed mark for 2U.
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    I don't think this makes any sense.

    Let's assume that they do hypothetically give you 100% 2U mark (which they don't). It does absolutely nothing to your ATAR, because there is no 2U component in the calculation of your ATAR. So this does not explain why 4U scales so well.

    Secondly, they don't just give you 100 assumed mark for 2U.
    I've been told the 2U assumed 100% from a lot of my teachers and students doing 4 unit.
    They don't actually put on the certificate - 100% for 2U but they calculate the atar as if the student achieved that mark - apparently? This could be totally wrong and if so I'm sorry D:
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by supR View Post
    I've been told the 2U assumed 100% from a lot of my teachers and students doing 4 unit.
    They don't actually put on the certificate - 100% for 2U but they calculate the atar as if the student achieved that mark - apparently? This could be totally wrong and if so I'm sorry D:
    Nah if they gave 100% for 2U then there's no point even studying for 4U because a 100 in 2U would scale so high!!
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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by pikachu975 View Post
    Nah if they gave 100% for 2U then there's no point even studying for 4U because a 100 in 2U would scale so high!!
    Ahaha true true! Sorry for my mistake xD


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    Re: Should I take 4U Maths for Year 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by supR View Post
    Ahaha true true! Sorry for my mistake xD


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    No worries, 2u just doesn't count at all. One benefit of doing 4U is that 3U counts as 2 units which is good considering it's around the same difficulty as 2u and aligns much higher
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