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Thread: If you are in year 11, read this first.

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    Premium Member withoutaface's Avatar
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    If you are in year 11, read this first.

    I've created this to hopefully stem the flow of "I'm in year 11, should I do 4u?" threads that have been coming into this forum of late.

    Points to note:

    1. Your 3u marks should be up around 70%. This is by no means set in stone, because of varying test difficulties etc, but if, for example, you're getting 40% in 3u I'd strongly advise you against 4u.
    2. You should love maths. Nothing else, unless you are extremely talented, will give you enough motivation to get through this course.
    3. You must be prepared to give a substantial amount of your study time to 4u (50+% of your study time should go to 3 and 4u study).
    4. If your teacher says you're not 4u material, they're probably right.
    5. If you can't get through the course without spending $100 a week on tutoring, don't do it.

    FAQ
    Is 4u hard?
    Yes.
    Is it rewarding?
    Yes.
    Will I have to have early morning/late afternoon classes?
    Depends on your school, but if you're at a selective school or a school with a lot of people then probably not.
    Does 4u scale well?
    Only if you work hard. Doing a subject just for the scaling is never a good idea.

    If anyone wants to suggest anything else to add to this thread just post it underneath.
    siganture removed due to excessive size

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    Slide Rule, you will find that the BOS can restrict you. If the school doesn't have the capacity for you to do the subject (i.e class is full), they can restrict you. Trust me i've been down that avenue and you wont get anywhere.

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    Psychic refugee KFunk's Avatar
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    Threatening to contact the BOS worked for me; it took about a four or five week fight to get into 4-Unit (because we were "full"). If there's a will there's a way.

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    I actually asked BOS, but oh well, maybe your maths teachers aren't as informed as ours.

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    Hello! Sparcod's Avatar
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    That's so stupid.
    A 4-unit student going to tutoring. I don't why its funny. If you do 4-unit, you don't need help, you should be doing everything by yourself. Also, 4-unit students are smart. They don't need them. ONLY DO IT IF YOU ARE SMART.
    Mimiphxn likes this.

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    Meh, guys in top 5 in my school go to tutoring. And they will get 95+ in 4u.

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    Hello! Sparcod's Avatar
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    FAQ...
    at the average selective school, how many students do 4-unit maths?


    what is the drop-out rate out of 4-unit maths?


    how's it different to 3-unit maths in terms of content?


    what if you fail IT?

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    joe-king4eva~~~~ joeylike2hiphop's Avatar
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    Question r u serious

    Quote Originally Posted by velox
    Meh, guys in top 5 in my school go to tutoring. And they will get 95+ in 4u.
    man that is so fucken good!!!are your 4u exams really easy?
    weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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    I've found Sydney Boys papers considerably harder than CSSA when it comes to non-conics questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by joeylike2hiphop
    man that is so fucken good!!!are your 4u exams really easy?
    He's probably referring to HSC mark though.

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    Psychic refugee KFunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    FAQ...
    at the average selective school, how many students do 4-unit maths?
    I go to an average selective school and about a third of the students in year 12 do 4-unit maths.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    what is the drop-out rate out of 4-unit maths?
    I suspect that this might be quite variable. At my school something like 5% of students that take 4-unit mathematics end up dropping the course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    how's it different to 3-unit maths in terms of content?
    It is far more intensive. It really requires you to develop your ability to sustain a mathematical argument. The algebra is harder. Where 3-unit often gives you numbers to work with 4-unit seems to have more theoretical exercises where you deal with 'n' (or however they want to represent a variable quantity). The thinking is more abstract and you run into infinity more often. The relation between 4-unit and 3-unit in terms of content:

    Graphs ---> A lot more depth than basic 3-unit graph drawing. More a tool than a topic.

    Complex Numbers ---> This is probably the most unfamiliar topic. Different to topics in 3-unit.

    Conics ---> Like parametrics but much harder... Conics is the devil ( in case you didn't know).

    Polynomials ---> Harder polynomials.

    Integration ---> Harder integration. Once you've done this you kill 3-unit integration.

    Volumes ---> There is a lot mroe to this than basic 2/3-unit volumes. It often involves derriving the integral for a volume from scratch using limits etc. You can deal with non-circular cross sections (eg. parabolic or triangular cross sections).

    Mechanics ---> Similar to 2/3-unit particle dynamics but much harder. The algebra can be pretty intensive in this topic.

    Harder 3-unit ---> This one speaks for itself.

    (*Note: the above is full of generalisations)

    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    what if you fail IT?
    Then it sucks to be you . Should that happen you should be thankful that your 3U mark counts for 2 units (which is a bonus given the scaling) and keep the difficulty of the course in perspective.
    frog1944 likes this.

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    Hello! Sparcod's Avatar
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    Thanks. Is Extension 2 maths the hardest subject of them all (and the one that gives the best scaling)?

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    EE2 Maths is most definitely NOT the hardest subject of them all; I'd say something open ended like EE2 English tops it. The scaling is quite good (whether it is the best varies from year to year, but it's always up there).

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    It depends on your definition of 'hardest'

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    brown? ishq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    Thanks. Is Extension 2 maths the hardest subject of them all (and the one that gives the best scaling)?
    No.
    It depends on what you're good at.
    And some languages scale more.

    David is right - EE2 takes a lot more out of you.
    | Class of 2005 |

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    im in yr 11 doin 4u early. i derno how im goin tho. wats with the scaling? if i get bout 85 4 raw mark is that ok?

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    Raw mark yeh unless your school makes easy tests.

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    Hello! Sparcod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFunk
    I go to an average selective school and about a third of the students in year 12 do 4-unit maths.




    I suspect that this might be quite variable. At my school something like 5% of students that take 4-unit mathematics end up dropping the course.



    It is far more intensive. It really requires you to develop your ability to sustain a mathematical argument. The algebra is harder. Where 3-unit often gives you numbers to work with 4-unit seems to have more theoretical exercises where you deal with 'n' (or however they want to represent a variable quantity). The thinking is more abstract and you run into infinity more often. The relation between 4-unit and 3-unit in terms of content:

    Graphs ---> A lot more depth than basic 3-unit graph drawing. More a tool than a topic.

    Complex Numbers ---> This is probably the most unfamiliar topic. Different to topics in 3-unit.

    Conics ---> Like parametrics but much harder... Conics is the devil ( in case you didn't know).

    Polynomials ---> Harder polynomials.

    Integration ---> Harder integration. Once you've done this you kill 3-unit integration.

    Volumes ---> There is a lot mroe to this than basic 2/3-unit volumes. It often involves derriving the integral for a volume from scratch using limits etc. You can deal with non-circular cross sections (eg. parabolic or triangular cross sections).

    Mechanics ---> Similar to 2/3-unit particle dynamics but much harder. The algebra can be pretty intensive in this topic.

    Harder 3-unit ---> This one speaks for itself.

    (*Note: the above is full of generalisations)



    Then it sucks to be you . Should that happen you should be thankful that your 3U mark counts for 2 units (which is a bonus given the scaling) and keep the difficulty of the course in perspective.

    Can you tell me briefly what each of these topics are about and what they involve? complex numbers? conics? mechanics?

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    Mr. jarrypan's Avatar
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    5. If you can't get through the course without spending $100 a week on tutoring, don't do it.
    I don't agree with this idea. it is a total waste, how about the poor students, should they abandon the chances to study?
    And I think if you can understand all the question the teacher teaches, you will do well in 4U

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    the tests arent easy, they're alright like not realli realli hard. i derno. i got 103/120 n im comin 10th. I might move up a couple of places, but the marks dont scale that much right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by withoutaface
    . If you can't get through the course without spending $100 a week on tutoring, don't do it.
    That's Bull. The person who has tutoring in my class is third from the bottom.

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    Random User Dimsimmer's Avatar
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    I understand most of the concepts that are involved in 3u maths and i am in year 11. I am underachieving in my exams, which i am averaging about 50% and i am not getting around 90% in 2u. I don't work hard enough. So would you think i would be able to do 4u if i work a lot harder. By the way, i go to a normal selective school.

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    You should talk to your teacher. They should be able to tell you if you are capable or not. If you plan on doing 4 unit you will need to start doing quite a bit of work.

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    make tea, not love gobaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeylike2hiphop
    man that is so fucken good!!!are your 4u exams really easy?

    haha sydney boys are not to be underestimated

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    Banned Bookie's Avatar
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    Well, when theres a 120 of us doin 4 unit and SHS, the tests are bound to be hard. Dont underestimate us. What?

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    A l
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    at the average selective school, how many students do 4-unit maths?
    At my school, an average selective school at MATHEMATICS ONLY, usually has about two classes for Mathematics Extension 2 every year. There are usually five Mathematics Extension 1 classses, one Mathematics 2 unit class and one General Mathematics class. There were a lot of applicants for Mathematics Extension 2 this year and hopefully we might have three classes this year, because I reckon that our year is pretty good at Mathematics. Even people who had fairly mediocre results in Mathematics Extension 1 at my school were allowed to go on to Mathematics Extension 2.
    Last year, we had our best student at Mathematics, who came second in the state for Mathematics Extension 2. He came second to a guy from James Ruse Agricultural High School. Let's hope we can match that or come close to that in our grade.
    Unfortunately, the principal decides how many classes there will be and she is a pretty mean principal who has this bad idea that people are better off doing less work and topping easier subjects than working hard in a more challenging subject. We even had a section in our newsletter titled "Is Your Child Trying Too Hard?" !LOL!
    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    what is the drop-out rate out of 4-unit maths?
    Usually a small number of people drop out because they can't handle the workload. A friend predicted that there would be a lot of people dropping out this year when they realise they chose the course for the scaling and couldn't handle the difficulty and workload of the course. I hope that doesn't happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    how's it different to 3-unit maths in terms of content?
    VERY DIFFERENT. I just had a go at Complex Numbers and boy, that was very different and very unfamiliar compared to the Real Numbers dealt in Mathematics Extension 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smart_Dunce
    what if you fail IT?
    Your problem. There goes 1 unit of work and 2 units of the HSC wasted. As KFunk mentioned, you can make back up in your Mathematics Extension 1 exam which will count for 2 units instead of one, which helps considering how well is scaled.
    Most people's definition of failing is below 50%. My personal definition of failing is below class average. That's what happens when people get very competitive. This competition at my school only happens in Mathematics and Science for some reason. Tells you something about the teaching qualities between faculties doesn't it.......?
    Quote Originally Posted by withoutaface
    If you can't get through the course without spending $100 a week on tutoring, don't do it.
    Interesting idea. I reckon the majority of people taking Mathematics Extension 2 would have tuition for it, but obviously not for such a high price per week! I would believe that most of the people taking the course would be from an Asian background and you know how many Asian parents sometimes force their children to attend tuition whether they like it or not.....

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