Mayor insists that NSB + NSG should become partially selective schools?

[RivalryofTroll]

Quoted from - http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/selective-high-schools-should-let-in-local-students-insists-mayor-20130222-2ewyq.html

TWO of the state's top selective high schools on Sydney's north shore should introduce comprehensive classes for local students to help cope with the area's enrolments crisis, the North Sydney mayor says.

Jilly Gibson said the Department of Education and Communities should consider making North Sydney Boys' and North Sydney Girls' High only partially selective, so they could also accept local students.

''I think they should seriously consider it. We have a crisis in our local area,'' she said.

As reported in Fairfax Media on Friday, extra demountables have been placed in teacher car parks and new classrooms created in some schools to cope with the surging popularity of local public schools, where enrolments have grown an average of more than 5 per cent this year.

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At Mosman High School, one of the few local comprehensives, enrolments grew 9.9 per cent, according to draft figures collected by the the Northern Sydney Regional Council of Parents and Citizens' Associations.

The change could benefit the schools as well as the local community, Ms Gibson said.

''Making [the schools] partially selective and partially local comprehensive would, I believe, be a win-win solution for students from an academic, social and cultural perspective.''

Both schools were in the top three on Fairfax Media's list of high performing schools based on 2012 HSC results.

Only about 5 per cent of the students were from the local area, Steph Croft, an executive member of the P&C council, said. But she said the group's campaign was focused on securing a new school.

''The whole lower north shore needs another high school and a number of our high schools need another building,'' she said.

The public education advocate Jane Caro said students would ''flood in'' to the two schools if the change occurred.

The department would not comment on the proposal. ''A range of options to meet the rising enrolment demand in Northern Sydney Region are being considered,'' a spokeswoman said.

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If NSG & NSB were to become partially selective, would they still be within the top 30? Top 50?

What do you think of these proposed changes?

Discuss.

 

[OzKo]

I think any arguments based around ranks dropping should be disregarded entirely if there's an issue with enrolment's in the area.

Ranks are useless as is.

 

[RivalryofTroll]

I think any arguments based around ranks dropping should be disregarded entirely if there's an issue with enrolment's in the area.

Ranks are useless as is.

Well, the 2nd question is still relevant

 

[OzKo]

In my opinion, it's a much more appealing option financially in contrast to setting up a new school and having to deal with all the new logistical challenges.

 

[funkshen]

no, the geniuses who populate the north shore's most prized and accomplished selective schools should not have to tolerate the mutants and degenerates of the broader public school system.

 

[nerdasdasd]

no, the geniuses who populate the north shore's most prized and accomplished selective schools should not have to tolerate the mutants and degenerates of the broader public school system.

The students in the broader public school system are not mutants and degenerates.......

 

[funkshen]

The students in the broader public school system are not mutants and degenerates.......

yes, they are.

 

[someth1ng]

I strongly disagree with making NSB/NSG partially selective.

Sure, it might be economically viable but the high achievers of NSB/NSG will have to learn in a poorer environment due to more average students mixing with them and it's just making selective places more competitive as less students will want to go to NSB/NSG as there are better alternatives such as SBHS/SGHS. Top achievers are best when they are with top achievers.

You simply cannot mix a top school with average students as the gap is just way too big now and you don't want the environment to make the school poorer in general.

 

[OzKo]

But why does the selective school HAVE to be in North Sydney - an area which is struggling to place students.

Just expand other selective schools as to cope with the movement of students.

 

[nerdasdasd]

yes, they are.

No they're not. What do you mean by "the broader public school system" anyway?

 

[Some Vunt]

I know people in that area who could've gone to NSG/B but went to private schools instead.

I'm assuming most would go to private schools since it's a ~wealthy~ area.
So who cares?

 

[starshine02]

I don't think they should make it partial selective even though it would be economically easier to ease the enrollment issue. They could just keep expanding the existing non selectives in that area. The rank they would change to would depend on the amount of local students they'd allow into the school. But I reckon they'd still be within the top 30 even if they accepted local students.

I wonder how existing students would feel about the change. Personally I don't think I would really like it that much but if it's a must then alright . If they were to do this they should start by allowing only yr7 local students entry so that it'll be fairer for those current students and for future selective applicants

 

[Verify]

Oh god please no, don't do this. Why do they need to make NSG/NSB partially selective though? I mean, if this goes ahead, would it be effect in the next say, 2 years? What about building new schools in the area?

 

[kaz1]

I strongly disagree with making NSB/NSG partially selective.

Sure, it might be economically viable but the high achievers of NSB/NSG will have to learn in a poorer environment due to more average students mixing with them and it's just making selective places more competitive as less students will want to go to NSB/NSG as there are better alternatives such as SBHS/SGHS. Top achievers are best when they are with top achievers.

You simply cannot mix a top school with average students as the gap is just way too big now and you don't want the environment to make the school poorer in general.

The selective students would be in different classes to the local students. imo this would make the school better more people to mix with rather than the horde of Asian nerds currently in the school

 

[Trebla]

The partially selective school model isn't a good one having experienced it myself. A major problem is that once they mix, there is really no added benefit in being a selective student because it pretty much becomes a place where the learning environment is less stimulating because the teachers need to cater to all abilities (like a normal comprehensive school) rather than cater for above average students with a more specialised teaching model i.e. effectively becomes selective kids in a non-selective school rather than non-selective kids in a selective school.

Separating the selective and non-selective kids in classrooms, whilst preferable, is not sustainable due to the need for resources adapting to two different styles of teaching and also when it comes to elected subject choices, quite often the classroom numbers make it impossible to create a timetable that separates the two streams.

Also, if one cares about school rankings you would notice that partially selective schools like Sefton and Macquarie Fields almost consistently rank below many non-selective schools.

 

[Blue Suede]

Just gonna say that there's Bradfield right across the road from NSG and up the street from NSB and they don't have full enrollments at all so I don't understand why the Mayor isn't considering that as an option.

As someone who went to a selective school, if I heard that it was going to become partially selective, I'd move to a different selective school.

In terms of why is the selective school based in North Sydney? Well it's a nice, central location for a lot of people who attend the school, but more importantly it goes back to the school's history (mostly nsg here). NSG has been a selective school since its inception in 1914 and during the war, etc was always selective. It moved buildings a couple of times, but the reputation of the school is in the name, and thus should it remain. Don't ruin the history of the school by making it partially selective.

 

[Kiraken]

Why dont they just expand the local public schools instead?

 

[clintmyster]

Absolute rubbish. Selective schools should be just that, selective. Part-selective should mean that there are classes of selective and other classes of comprehensive, not mixed, otherwise it defeats the purpose and just implies students are on scholarship.

 

[Bobbo1]

Wow, way to increase the inequality of education between the rich and poor again... The wealthy families who live around the Sydney city will be able to enrol their kids in these school regardless of how smart they are and make them leech off the actual selective students..

 

[OzKo]

Christ, some of arguments here.

geez