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Thread: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

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    What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    I seriously don't see anything special about this school, don't know why so many Asians parents are so excited about it, the facility is old, the technology are outdated, the curriculum is standard BOS crap, the teachers are public grade, the students are average nerdy Asians (probably above average IQ but I don't think most JR students are at Mensa level) with pushy parents.

    How would James Ruse fare if it was in a more academic competitive city like Shanghai or Hong Kong? I don't think James Ruse would be any near the top in Shanghai, considering many of the University affiliated schools, experimental schools or international schools has so much better specifics in almost everything, including the students.
    Last edited by financialwar; 15 Dec 2014 at 7:43 PM.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    They always get da top atar thats why and da quality of the students

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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    The only thing these Asian parents think of is the history of a school where students usually get the highest ATARs in NSW. Not that spectacular if you think about it, but apparently they are obsessed with it.

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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    The whole atmosphere of 99.95!!!!1!1
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithone View Post
    The whole atmosphere of 99.95!!!!1!1
    Only about 10 or so students there get 99.95. Not really the whole atmosphere considering there's a lot of students. Lets just say it's a population where most students get 90 or above.

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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Done.

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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by financialwar View Post
    How would James Ruse fare if it was in a more academic competitive city like Shanghai or Hong Kong? I don't think James Ruse would be any near the top in Shanghai, considering many of the University affiliated schools, experimental schools or international schools has so much better specifics in almost everything, including the students.
    You could argue that NSW has a better education system than China which would invalidate this comparison. The main reason the Gaokao is undergoing major reforms is because it isnt "fit for purpose", in that it encourages rote learning and is producing a class of professionals which lack the vision needed to drive innovation. The HSC can be criticised for the same thing, but it is nowhere near as bad as China's system.

    Back on topic, but the main advantage of being at a selective school is the atmosphere and culture, which pushes people to excel. It doesnt work for everyone though.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Reputation. They associate sending their child to a school known for producing the highest ATAR students (if they make it in) with securing a top-tier university place, and consequently a well paid job.

    Having said this, I reckon probably the biggest difference between a selective school and a non-selective school is the students overall value of academic success and their motivation to pursue that success. I'm making assumptions here but from observation this is stressed so much more in Asian families and hence carries down to the children.
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    Senior Member financialwar's Avatar
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    You could argue that NSW has a better education system than China which would invalidate this comparison. The main reason the Gaokao is undergoing major reforms is because it isnt "fit for purpose", in that it encourages rote learning and is producing a class of professionals which lack the vision needed to drive innovation. The HSC can be criticised for the same thing, but it is nowhere near as bad as China's system.
    That's why I stressed university affiliated school, experimental schools and international schools or schools with international divisions. These schools usually have the option not doing Gaokao, instead using IB, SAT etc, the students in these type of schools get into Harvard, Stanford etc.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by youngsky View Post
    Having said this, I reckon probably the biggest difference between a selective school and a non-selective school is the students overall value of academic success and their motivation to pursue that success. I'm making assumptions here but from observation this is stressed so much more in Asian families and hence carries down to the children.
    I think it's part of a wider "immigrant" mentality - those from Asian and Indian backgrounds tend to focus on education and to a lesser extent, so do those from European backgrounds. Obviously it stems from the hardships immigrants face and their desire to see their kids have a "better life". Frustration sets in though because given the difference in circumstances and age, kids of immigrants dont often share their parents motivation.

    However, with Europeans, they tend to emphasis property ownership as being the key to wealth over say having a good education. Dont get me wrong, they emphasise both, but I've noticed that European immigrants will look down on those who dont own property. Like, textbook conversation I have had with some relatives:

    Me: Ohh, Joe Bloggs does accounting and he really enjoys it.
    Relative: Yeh but he rents, at 40 you should have your own home. Too much going on holidays and wasting money, he should have at least one property by now given how much he makes.

    Obviously it's a generalisation, but it's just a cultural difference I've noticed.
    Last edited by enoilgam; 15 Dec 2014 at 8:27 PM.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by financialwar View Post
    That's why I stressed university affiliated school, experimental schools and international schools or schools with international divisions. These schools usually have the option not doing Gaokao, instead using IB, SAT etc, the students in these type of schools get into Harvard, Stanford etc.
    That's fair - but why exactly would they be "better" than Ruse?
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    That's fair - but why exactly would they be "better" than Ruse?
    Like everything?? Campus, Technology, Teachers, Curriculum, extra curriculum, university connections, government connections etc, most of these schools have campus like universities with accommodations for students, within these schools, they have international divisions for the talented and go through IB/SAT system, while other go through Gaokao.

    James Ruse is really nothing more than few old buildings with overachieving Asians, they were overachievers before enter JR, it's not like JR have a system or environment that turn underachievers into overachievers. You put these students into say Parramatta high, then Parramatta will be the no1 atar school, the only variable JR have is the students, these is absolutely nothing intrinsically special about JR.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    what's ur point

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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    > James Ruse is an agricultural high school
    > Australia has a comparative advantage in agriculture
    > Therefore James Ruse is special
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiraken View Post
    what's ur point
    Can be asked about all of this guy's posts.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by financialwar View Post
    I seriously don't see anything special about this school, don't know why so many Asians parents are so excited about it, the facility is old, the technology are outdated, the curriculum is standard BOS crap, the teachers are public grade, the students are average nerdy Asians (probably above average IQ but I don't think most JR students are at Mensa level) with pushy parents.

    How would James Ruse fare if it was in a more academic competitive city like Shanghai or Hong Kong? I don't think James Ruse would be any near the top in Shanghai, considering many of the University affiliated schools, experimental schools or international schools has so much better specifics in almost everything, including the students.
    Australia isn't actually known for its secondary education but james ruse is considered the best in NSW, and yes you are right about international schools being better.

    There is a known reputation that people from JR that people will do well (very high ATARs and go8 uni's), so that's why people see it as special.

    In relation to international schools, they are often in countries that have a culture that places more value on education.... So of course they would fare better than JR.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    99.95

    /thread

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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by financialwar View Post
    Like everything?? Campus, Technology, Teachers, Curriculum, extra curriculum, university connections, government connections etc, most of these schools have campus like universities with accommodations for students, within these schools, they have international divisions for the talented and go through IB/SAT system, while other go through Gaokao.

    James Ruse is really nothing more than few old buildings with overachieving Asians, they were overachievers before enter JR, it's not like JR have a system or environment that turn underachievers into overachievers. You put these students into say Parramatta high, then Parramatta will be the no1 atar school, the only variable JR have is the students, these is absolutely nothing intrinsically special about JR.
    Hey.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    It's fair to argue that the school itself (facilities, teachers, infrastructure, etc.) isn't anything ''special'' - I mean, if we wanted to talk about 'special schools' in that context, let's just talk about King's, Knox Grammar and the other private schools out there.

    Even if they do take the cream of the crop in Year 6, through the selective test, it's amazing how James Ruse has been ranked 1st, in terms of the HSC school rankings, for 18 consecutive years. Will be 19 consecutive years soon enough.

    Meanwhile, there really hasn't been a school that has held onto the 2nd position for a long period of time (i.e. many consecutive years).
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    I think it's part of a wider "immigrant" mentality - those from Asian and Indian backgrounds tend to focus on education and to a lesser extent, so do those from European backgrounds. Obviously it stems from the hardships immigrants face and their desire to see their kids have a "better life". Frustration sets in though because given the difference in circumstances and age, kids of immigrants dont often share their parents motivation.

    However, with Europeans, they tend to emphasis property ownership as being the key to wealth over say having a good education. Dont get me wrong, they emphasise both, but I've noticed that European immigrants will look down on those who dont own property. Like, textbook conversation I have had with some relatives:

    Me: Ohh, Joe Bloggs does accounting and he really enjoys it.
    Relative: Yeh but he rents, at 40 you should have your own home. Too much going on holidays and wasting money, he should have at least one property by now given how much he makes.

    Obviously it's a generalisation, but it's just a cultural difference I've noticed.
    Yeah that's true, what I was meaning to say was that in cases where that immigrant mentality is shared by the children, they would be more prevalent in the selective schools.

    That's an interesting observation, though it sounds a bit counterintuitive? Like if property ownership entails either a) inheriting property or b) purchasing one's own, then wouldn't the latter be most simply achieved by getting a good education -> stable job? Or I guess the idea might be that owning a property in itself is more likely to be seen as a huge milestone/threshold in European families...then again, I'm Asian, so this is just speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by financialwar View Post
    James Ruse is really nothing more than few old buildings with overachieving Asians, they were overachievers before enter JR, it's not like JR have a system or environment that turn underachievers into overachievers. You put these students into say Parramatta high, then Parramatta will be the no1 atar school, the only variable JR have is the students, these is absolutely nothing intrinsically special about JR.
    Aren't you answering your own question? Or was this thread meant to stir debate against JR and other selective schools?
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Selection process
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by youngsky View Post
    That's an interesting observation, though it sounds a bit counterintuitive? Like if property ownership entails either a) inheriting property or b) purchasing one's own, then wouldn't the latter be most simply achieved by getting a good education -> stable job? Or I guess the idea might be that owning a property in itself is more likely to be seen as a huge milestone/threshold in European families...then again, I'm Asian, so this is just speculation.
    Well you'd think so, but to be honest, getting property has a lot more to do with how you spend your money as opposed to how much you earn. My Dad gave me this gem of advice and I have to say it is so true: "It isnt how much you earn, it's how much you spend". When you earn more money, the temptation is there to spend and nothing spends like money. When I first started earning money, I was complacent with it because I thought "What's XXX when I'm earning XXXX". Eventually, those little expenses would add up and I'd open my wallet and think "Shit where did all my money go?". Every time I've moved up in earnings, I fall into the same trap and it never changes regardless of how much I'm making. My friends bag me out for trying to save on Opal by taking quick, cheap trips, but like I tell them, if you dont watch your money, it will go. I'm not saying you should be a tightarse, but dont waste it unnecessarily.

    EDIT: But more to your question, I think for Europeans, property ownership is seen as a bigger status symbol/mark of success then a career.
    Last edited by enoilgam; 15 Dec 2014 at 10:52 PM.
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    James Ruse is overrated. Its too old
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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by RivalryofTroll View Post
    It's fair to argue that the school itself (facilities, teachers, infrastructure, etc.) isn't anything ''special'' - I mean, if we wanted to talk about 'special schools' in that context, let's just talk about King's, Knox Grammar and the other private schools out there.
    Sure, these schools aren't so great academically though, isn't there a school with both good hardware and software? If there is an school in this country with the facility and stuff of King's and the students of JR, then we're talking about a school that can probably compete with schools like Shanghai high or Beijing No.4.
    Last edited by financialwar; 15 Dec 2014 at 11:31 PM.

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    Re: What is so special about James Ruse or any other selective?

    Quote Originally Posted by financialwar View Post
    Sure, these schools aren't so great academically though, isn't there a school with both good hardware and software? If there is an school in this country with the facility and stuff of King's and the students of JR, then we're talking about a school that can probably compete with schools like Shanghai high or Beijing No.4.
    Yes but for the most part noone is interested in selective hs fanfiction...

    and there's bigger concerns out there than competing with China
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