Are select school/private school teachers of a higher quality?

[cannibal.horse]

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I go to a school ranked 187th, for the most part the staff at my school are older/better then those in the rest of the region (we're a rural area) but there are a few exceptions...
- My modern history teacher is shit, he gives us excel/maquarie photocopies for notes
- My advanced english teacher has had that many complaints by students he's not allowed to teach advanced next year
- My mate's electronics teacher burnt all the wires in his major project, due tomorrow.

You tend to find that a lot of comprehensive high schools in the sydney region (St Pius X and St Marys Cathedrel) get ranked within the 100-150's whereas schools in rural areas, well, usually start at about 150...


So are teachers in sydney areas, and particually at select and private schools of a better quality? (generally speaking) or is it just the students are more diligent?

arguements for:
- Sydney being a city might be more attractive for many teachers, and teaching good students in select schools would make these schools more attractive

arguements against:
- Pay and the transfer system is the same at every school, and with the exception of private schools you cant just dismiss staff because they are average teachers.

[kaz1]

I think the teachers are the same at all public schools (including selective). But the teachers in private schools might be better.

[midifile]

It's kinda hard to say, as not many people on here have been to both a school in sydney and a rural school, and even if they have, they can't really make judgments about the whole system after experiencing two schools.

As for private schools, I think that the advantage that a lot of private school have that they can get rid of crap teachers. Of course, there are some private schools which still have bad teachers, but, for example, at my school (ranked in the top 20), if a teacher is shit and parents/students compain, something will be done, and either they wont be allowed to teach year 11 and 12, or more likely they will be fired.

[lyounamu]

Originally Posted by cannibal.horse

I go to a school ranked 187th, for the most part the staff at my school are older/better then those in the rest of the region (we're a rural area) but there are a few exceptions...
- My modern history teacher is shit, he gives us excel/maquarie photocopies for notes
- My advanced english teacher has had that many complaints by students he's not allowed to teach advanced next year
- My mate's electronics teacher burnt all the wires in his major project, due tomorrow.

You tend to find that a lot of comprehensive high schools in the sydney region (St Pius X and St Marys Cathedrel) get ranked within the 100-150's whereas schools in rural areas, well, usually start at about 150...


So are teachers in sydney areas, and particually at select and private schools of a better quality? (generally speaking) or is it just the students are more diligent?

arguements for:
- Sydney being a city might be more attractive for many teachers, and teaching good students in select schools would make these schools more attractive

arguements against:
- Pay and the transfer system is the same at every school, and with the exception of private schools you cant just dismiss staff because they are average teachers.

Yeah, that's my school which is currently ranked 101 or 100!

Anyway, back on track: I don't know if all the good teachers are coming to the urban area. But I am sure about one thing: good teacher empower students to help themselves rather than spoon-feed them throughout the HSC year (or even durng the Preliminary year). Therefore, class environment has an impact on this matter as it affects students' learning environment and the knowledge they absorb. No matter, how much teachers spoon-feed them, if the students themselves are not self-sustaining and not working well, all the effort goes to waste. The reason why we perceive (usually) Selective teachers as the top quality is not necessarily due to the fact that they teach effectivey. It's the students' result that deceive us into thinking that the teachers' efforts go hand in hand with their results. But that's not necessarily the case.

Same story for many private high schools. Students usually are of the high quality than normal public schools and that's probably why they perform well, thus deceiving us to believe that teachers there are awesome to the core. So I think it's all up to the students when it comes to determining how good the teachers are. Apart from that way, how would you really come about determining whether that teacher is good or not? (when you didn't even experience that teacher yourself?)

[midifile]

Originally Posted by lyounamu

Same story for many private high schools. Students usually are of the high quality than normal public schools and that's probably why they perform well, thus deceiving us to believe that teachers there are awesome to the core.

I wouldn't say that students are of a higher quality at private schools (apart from those on scholarships). There are a lot of kids at my school who are really stupid and/or dont give a shit about school because they know their parents will just give them a job or (in the case of the really rich ones) a business or pay for them to go to a private uni (like bond).

[lyounamu]

Originally Posted by midifile

I wouldn't say that students are of a higher quality at private schools (apart from those on scholarships). There are a lot of kids at my school who are really stupid and/or dont give a shit about school because they know their parents will just give them a job or (in the case of the really rich ones) a business or pay for them to go to a private uni (like bond).

That's why I said "many". As in "many", I am referring to Sydney Grammar, Reddam House, Ravenswood, Pymble Ladies' College, Ascham, Abbotsleigh, Knox Grammar, Cranbrook...etc

[midifile]

Originally Posted by lyounamu

That's why I said "many". As in "many", I am referring to Sydney Grammar, Reddam House, Ravenswood, Pymble Ladies' College, Ascham, Abbotsleigh, Knox Grammar, Cranbrook...etc

Lol. Yeah I get what you mean..

Originally Posted by lyounamu

Reddam House

but that's my school.

I guess there are shit students everywhere.

[lyounamu]

Originally Posted by midifile

Lol. Yeah I get what you mean..



but that's my school.

I guess there are shit students everywhere.

I knew. That's why I mentioned.

But still, Reddam House is pretty decent. Its rank hovers around top 10 or top 20 which is better than 300-400 or so other public schools.

[midifile]

Originally Posted by lyounamu

I knew. That's why I mentioned.

But still, Reddamn House is pretty decent. Its rank hovers around top 10 or top 20 which is better than 300-400 or so other public schools.

Yeah I agree it's good and i'm glad I go there.

But, im not too sure if we'll stay in the top 20 this year.


EDIT: I'm trying to work out if you put that 'n' there on purpose or if it was a typo

[lyounamu]

Originally Posted by midifile

Yeah I agree it's good and i'm glad I go there.

But, im not too sure if we'll stay in the top 20 this year.


EDIT: I'm trying to work out if you put that 'n' there on purpose or if it was a typo

Sorry. It was definitely a typo.

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by lyounamu

Yeah, that's my school which is currently ranked 101 or 100!

Anyway, back on track: I don't know if all the good teachers are coming to the urban area. But I am sure about one thing: good teacher empower students to help themselves rather than spoon-feed them throughout the HSC year (or even durng the Preliminary year). Therefore, class environment has an impact on this matter as it affects students' learning environment and the knowledge they absorb. No matter, how much teachers spoon-feed them, if the students themselves are not self-sustaining and not working well, all the effort goes to waste. The reason why we perceive (usually) Selective teachers as the top quality is not necessarily due to the fact that they teach effectivey. It's the students' result that deceive us into thinking that the teachers' efforts go hand in hand with their results. But that's not necessarily the case.

Same story for many private high schools. Students usually are of the high quality than normal public schools and that's probably why they perform well, thus deceiving us to believe that teachers there are awesome to the core. So I think it's all up to the students when it comes to determining how good the teachers are. Apart from that way, how would you really come about determining whether that teacher is good or not? (when you didn't even experience that teacher yourself?)

Whilst I agree that to a large extent it is the students who drive their work teachers play a large role as well.

Having a teacher who's taught a subject for decades/marks the hsc is an enormous advantage. They can show students the mechanics of learning (buzz phrases, key points, 'fishing' techniques where you can borrow information from other dot points) which can really put them head and shoulders above a kid with an excel guide and a lot of time on his hands.

It is particually frustrating in history subjects where the higher marks can often depend on access to university texts (Briant, Bury & Meiggs, Peter Grant, Maria Brosius, Dandamaev etc etc) which can cost big bucks, and with a teacher who knows them thoroughly they can often direct you straight through the tedious sections to the pages they're after.

The boy who got a 99.55 at my school was very smart, but also having (by luck) senior markers in every subject would have played its part as well.

[runnable]

Private schools wish to think they employ higher quality teachers with their slightly higher pay. But thats not always the case.

[lyounamu]

Originally Posted by runnable

Private schools wish to think they employ higher quality teachers with their slightly higher pay. But thats not always the case.

z

So you get more pay at private?

Then how much more would you get? I heard at some subject coordinators at Riverview get 100 K+ if not 150 K+

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by lyounamu

z

So you get more pay at private?

Then how much more would you get? I heard at some subject coordinators at Riverview get 100 K+ if not 150 K+

Man my parents work in public schools, I'm 90% sure there is no difference in pay and if there was it would be minimal, otherwise there would be legal rammifacations.

[midifile]

Originally Posted by lyounamu

z

So you get more pay at private?

Then how much more would you get? I heard at some subject coordinators at Riverview get 100 K+ if not 150 K+

I'm pretty sure it's about 10% extra at private schools but it varies between schools.

But I think that some of the better teachers at my school get much more that that.