Poll: do you believe in god?

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Thread: Does God exist?

  1. #101
    Child of the Most High
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    I never said that! If I did, it WOULD be a load tripe! I absolutely suck and I will never deny that! If I do, I give you permission to shoot me!

    My claim is that not one single person is good enough for God. Judged against the standards of everyone else, you might be a good enough person. BUT that is not the measure! Our measure is the righteousness of God.

    The only thing that can measure up to the goodness of God is the goodness of God itself. Only God is righteous enough to please God! Which puts us in a dilly of a pickle because no matter what we do, we cant be right with God.

    Only one man lived a completely righteous life. That man was Jesus. And on him all the punishment that we deserve was place so that he may present us before God as righteous.

    I am a christian. It does not make me better than you. It does not mean I've been a better person so I've earnt the right to be a christian. In fact I suck so much that I have no doubt that anyone is better than me!

    The difference is that I have asked Jesus to take my sin from me, to pay the penalty that I deserve because I am not good enough to ever pay it. And he did. Now when God looks at me, he doesn't see sinful Wilmo, but he sees the beautiful righteousness of his Son. His own righteousness. And with that he is satisfied.

    Christians are not the best people... but Jesus was righteous, and he gave his life as a ransom for many that they may be considered righteous before God
    I'm a quarter of a Civil Engineer... Ha.

  2. #102
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    Jesus Was Way Cool

    Jesus was way cool. Everybody liked Jesus.
    Everybody wanted to hang out with him.
    Anything he wanted to do, he did.
    He turned water into wine, and if he had wanted to,
    He could have turned wheat into marijuana, sugar into cocaine,
    or vitamin pills into amphetamines.
    He walked on the water and swam on the land.
    He would tell these stories and people would listen.
    He was really cool.
    If you were blind, or lame, you just went to Jesus and he would put his
    hands on you and you would be healed.
    That's so cool.

    He could have played guitar better than Hendrix.
    He could have told the future.
    He could have baked the most delicious cake in the world.
    He could have scored more goals than Wayne Gretzky.
    He could have danced better than Baryshnikov.
    Jesus would have been funnier than any comedian you can think of.

    Jesus told people to eat his body and drink his blood.
    That's so cool. Jesus was so cool.
    But then some people got jealous of how cool he was, so they killed him.

    But then he rose from the dead! He rose from the dead, did a little dance, and went up to heaven. I mean, that's so cool. No wonder there are so many Christians.

  3. #103
    A Restless Member veterandoggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otay
    I mean, that's so cool. No wonder there are so many Christians.
    Hey! you guys had 600 years of conquests as a head start!
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  4. #104
    StudyforEver SashatheMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veterandoggy
    Hey! you guys had 600 years of conquests as a head start!
    but muhammad had a legion on idiots who are easily tricked into believing balony

  5. #105
    A Restless Member veterandoggy's Avatar
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    and what do ya know? it totally smoked aetheism in regards to followers...
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    So I got home, and the phone was ringing. I picked it up, and said 'Who's
    speaking please?' And a voice said 'You are.'

    [s]B Computing (Business Information Systems) (E-Business)-UWS parra (1st year)[/s]

    Software Engineering @ UNSW -First Year

    why race? Because football & soccer only require ONE ball

  6. #106
    Andrew Quah
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    Quote Originally Posted by veterandoggy
    and what do ya know? it totally smoked aetheism in regards to followers...
    Yes, because what is most followed is always the most accurate choice...
    I suggest you sign up on the christianity bandwagon if that's how you want to think.

  7. #107
    A Restless Member veterandoggy's Avatar
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    were catching up...

    and i guess the world is 95+% idiots and <5% sane people?
    Last edited by veterandoggy; 18 Dec 2005 at 1:51 PM.
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    So I got home, and the phone was ringing. I picked it up, and said 'Who's
    speaking please?' And a voice said 'You are.'

    [s]B Computing (Business Information Systems) (E-Business)-UWS parra (1st year)[/s]

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    why race? Because football & soccer only require ONE ball

  8. #108
    Andrew Quah
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    Well it's not about idiots and sane people... more people who have properly logically criticised their religion, and people who have not. I also believe there are alot more atheists than studies might show, while I may put myself down as a catholic due to being born a catholic I am actually atheist... It's just when you don't care that much some people will continue to place themselves in X religious group.

    But to be honest, your argument holds no ground. 500 years ago 99.95% of the world thought the earth was flat, probably more like 99.999999%.... does that make them right? Hell no.

  9. #109
    Member euskadi_warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not-That-Bright
    I also believe there are alot more atheists than studies might show... It's just when you don't care that much some people will continue to place themselves in X religious group.
    Yeh, I read a report somewhere about that where they surveyed a number of people asking of what religion they were and a huge majority said they were part of a religious group. However, when asked if they believed in what their religious tradition believes, a huge amount of people responded negatively. If I can find this report, I'll post it up.

  10. #110
    Member nedzelic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonlightSonata
    This thread is for discussions about whether God exists.

    I created a similar thread a long with the same title but I eventually deleted it because it became a monster. I am reluctant to recreate this thread, however such discussions about God are encroaching on a number of different topics and should be contained.

    I strongly suggest that anyone taking part in this thread read the Fallacies section of the argument guide.

    NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOO you gullible cretins
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  11. #111
    Premium Member withoutaface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veterandoggy
    were catching up...

    and i guess the world is 95+% idiots and <5% sane people?
    Argumentum ad populum. Please stop now.
    siganture removed due to excessive size

  12. #112
    Cadet chockie's Avatar
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    i can't remember who said it...but whoever said that even if proof was found for God, they wouldn't follow the bible...

    whether God exists or not, imagine what the world would be like if everyone followed the bible's values of love, forgiveness, helping the poor, healing the broken etc? You're either contributing to the unfortunate state of society today, or working to make it better. People complain about the world being so terrible. Now, I wonder why it is. Think about it.

    In a postmodern society that says life has no meaning, why are so many people still trying to find it? You only have to look around to see that humans have an innate desire for purpose...something to complete their lives, whether it be money or whatever.

    I believe God exists and i see evidence all around me. Miracles aren't some story from an ancient book - they still happen today. I think denying the possibility of miracles is extraordinarily closed-minded. I don't deny the possibilty of, for example, evolution. One of my science teachers believes God created the world and evolution was a factor in the continual creation of plant and animal species.

    I think people are scared of the truth because of the implications it would have on their lives. In reality, the truth will set you free but i can't make you understand that.

    Lee Strobel - The Case For Christ is a good book. Yes, it argues FOR Christianity, but was written by a guy who was a lawyer (if i remember right) and originally set out to disprove Christianity's claims. Very interesting.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by chockie

    whether God exists or not, imagine what the world would be like if everyone followed the bible's values of love, forgiveness, helping the poor, healing the broken etc? You're either contributing to the unfortunate state of society today, or working to make it better. People complain about the world being so terrible. Now, I wonder why it is. Think about it.
    Ah, did it ever occur to you that such ideas aren't to found only within the bible (or any other religious text for that matter), or that religious notions are but one of the many social constructs that guide our actions? No? Well, I suggest that you think about what has been written within this thread, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by chockie
    I think people are scared of the truth because of the implications it would have on their lives. In reality, the truth will set you free but i can't make you understand that.
    It's not a truth, it's an escape. I'm not denying that for some it sets them free from the worries of the world and life in general (or that such an escape is necessarily bad (when it doesn't encourage insular behaviour, that is)), but it isn't as though it's a tangible truth as you suggest.
    Last edited by Generator; 19 Dec 2005 at 5:08 PM.

  14. #114
    Cadet chockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generator
    It's not a truth, it's an escape. I'm not denying that for some it sets them free from the worries of the world and life in general (or that such an escape is necessarily bad (when it doesn't encourage insular behaviour, that is)), but it isn't as though it's a tangible truth as you suggest.
    It wasn't my suggestion, i was quoting - "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32) That Jesus claimed to actually BE the truth is a pretty big call...in my opinion he must be either mad or power hungry or...not lying. Mad - well no historical fact about him suggests such. Power hungry - he travelled from place to place, without a home of his own, living off the charity of friends, and no wealth whatsoever. Telling the truth...well he just might've been.

    "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." - Luke 1:1-4

    That to me doesn't sound like a storybook, it sounds like an historical account. Luke was a Greek doctor - a learned man. Therefore i choose also to believe the existence of God, the claims of Jesus and his works and miracles that it goes on to document.

    But that is my choice.

  15. #115
    A Restless Member veterandoggy's Avatar
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    we say muhammad was illiterate and uneducated (which he was) and couldnt have possibly thought up of what is in the quran, but as you can see it isnt enough evidence to prove god's existence, since nothing is enough to PROVE it, only to give reason.
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    So I got home, and the phone was ringing. I picked it up, and said 'Who's
    speaking please?' And a voice said 'You are.'

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    why race? Because football & soccer only require ONE ball

  16. #116
    Senior Member gerhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chockie
    It wasn't my suggestion, i was quoting - "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32) That Jesus claimed to actually BE the truth is a pretty big call...in my opinion he must be either mad or power hungry or...not lying. Mad - well no historical fact about him suggests such. Power hungry - he travelled from place to place, without a home of his own, living off the charity of friends, and no wealth whatsoever. Telling the truth...well he just might've been.
    this is a pretty terrible argument


    edit: also the second bit. luke was a doctor and he believed! it must be true! youre appealing to an authority because you cant give your own reasons, and its not even a real authourity but a fallacious one; a doctor is an expert in medicine, not in religion.
    Last edited by gerhard; 19 Dec 2005 at 7:46 PM.

  17. #117
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    If any sort of higher being does exist then why do they/ does he let shit happen to us all the time?

  18. #118
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    Christians - maybe I don't understand this - why was Jesus's blood needed to wash away the sins of the world?

    Couldn't God just have sent Jesus down and let him die at a ripe old age, and just written the previous sins off, without needing bloodshed?

    It might have been more effective in the short term, but would Jesus have been such a hit if he hadn't been a martyr?
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  19. #119
    Senior Member gerhard's Avatar
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    question to muslims about jesus - you guys say jesus was a prophet, correct? but what about when jesus said he was the son of god? do you think that jesus was simply mistaken about this, or that he was lying or...

  20. #120
    Cadet chockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard
    this is a pretty terrible argument
    Unless you're prepared to deny that a man named Jesus ever existed, then you have to at least consider the claims he made.

  21. #121
    Cadet chockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malkin86
    Christians - maybe I don't understand this - why was Jesus's blood needed to wash away the sins of the world?

    Couldn't God just have sent Jesus down and let him die at a ripe old age, and just written the previous sins off, without needing bloodshed?

    It might have been more effective in the short term, but would Jesus have been such a hit if he hadn't been a martyr?
    In the Old Testament, priests sacrificed lambs to atone for their people's sins. Because God is perfect, any sin against him must be punished. The idea was that a lamb's blood would be shed and God would accept this as a sufficient atonement. This practice stopped after Jesus died. As the perfect and innocent son of God, his death was considered sufficient punishment for all sins, past present and future. That's why he's sometimes referred to as the 'lamb of God'.

    The whole point of the Christian faith is based on this idea - that Jesus' atonement for humanity's sins means people are able to be perfect in God's eyes, through believing in what Jesus did.

  22. #122
    A Restless Member veterandoggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard
    question to muslims about jesus - you guys say jesus was a prophet, correct? but what about when jesus said he was the son of god? do you think that jesus was simply mistaken about this, or that he was lying or...
    look, ill tell you what. you find the verse that says that and ill find the verse in which he says "on my own authority i can do nothing"

    whoops! i hope i was mistaken, because if this verse exists it might imply that he had to get permission to perform his miracles, and is in fact under the power of a more supreme being, which would support our argument that he was a prophet and not a god.

    btw there are many verses which are similar in this regard, and there are a few debates between ahmad deedat (may allah be pleased with him) and jimmy swaggart (hope i spelt his name correct). plus ahmad deedat has made many debates against other evangelists/preists, but i think this one was the one that had the most attention.
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    So I got home, and the phone was ringing. I picked it up, and said 'Who's
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    Software Engineering @ UNSW -First Year

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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by chockie
    In the Old Testament, priests sacrificed lambs to atone for their people's sins. Because God is perfect, any sin against him must be punished. The idea was that a lamb's blood would be shed and God would accept this as a sufficient atonement. This practice stopped after Jesus died. As the perfect and innocent son of God, his death was considered sufficient punishment for all sins, past present and future. That's why he's sometimes referred to as the 'lamb of God'.

    The whole point of the Christian faith is based on this idea - that Jesus' atonement for humanity's sins means people are able to be perfect in God's eyes, through believing in what Jesus did.
    Why does God need blood?
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by chockie
    Unless you're prepared to deny that a man named Jesus ever existed, then you have to at least consider the claims he made.
    With that in mind, I would hope that you too would consider the statements of one who claims to have been abucted by Alf's cousins from Melmac for a weekend trip to the planet Vulcan. Of course, as with those who doubt the veracity of the bible (and other religious texts), you are free to disregard such statements as being fanciful after a period of some consideration.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by malkin86
    Why does God need blood?
    hasnt it got something to do with cleansing...?

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