Howard's migration plan (1 Viewer)

[LynH1326]

I would just like to know what people think of Howard's plan to make migrants learn English to be a citizen of Australia.

My opinion is that they do these things in other countries like Malaysia and in the US they make you learn English and their history and their system of government. So why not at least make people learn English here. It does not mean that people have to speak English at home or out in the community, its just a safeguard against prejudice towards those who cannot speak English who are marginalised by the community. It will just make life easier for everyone so neither party would get frustrated by being misunderstood due to their language, but that's my opinion.

I have migrant grandparents who learnt english in their country and before they came to Australia in displaced persons camps. Their friends who didnt learn before coming to Australia had a harder time of things and were discriminated against.

It is not necessarily an idea to segregate and discriminate against migrants, but those who do not like the Australian way of life should go somewhere where their morals and ethics are similar. People will still be free to speak their own native language and to practice their religions, it just means that migrants have to respect Australia's way of life and learn the English language.

We could be like Japan and not let those born to non-Australian citizens or not born in Japan be citizens. Believe me, there are stricter citizenship requirements than learning English and respecting the Australian way of life.

 

[otay]

I agree. Howard's an absolute wanker and I'd never thought I would ever agree with him. But too right. You must at least attempt to speak/learn english. I don't know what he means about embracing Australian way of life? Does this mean every migrant should head to his local to watch the cricket, or stop their lives for a few minutes in early November for a horse race? I dunno. But they must at least attempt to learn english. It's a start. It is quite weird to feel like a stranger in some communities in Sydney. Maybe this what he means by embracing Australian way of life...don't make Australians feel unwelcome in their communities in all of our country.

 

[CSI: CRIMES ™]

John howard is right, the people complaining are whining about themselves in this country, i mean would people like it if someone trying to go somewhere and they couldnt speak english at all, and they had to find someone who has to translate for them and all that. So yeah John howard is right on this

 

[ZabZu]

I agree with Johnny too. Basic English should be expected of all people living in Australia.

Once again, Howard has singled out the Muslim community as a group that has problems integrating. Up until now, multiculturalism in Australia has been a success. The Europeans, such as the Italians and Greeks who came after WW2, eventually integrated into society, although they initially experienced intense racism. In the past 2 decades most asians have integrated but many Muslims still segregate themselves from the rest of Australia. Eg. I read an article in the SMH a few months ago that marriage within the family is at all time highs.

Muslim community leaders say they are outraged that their community is singled out, unfortunately they cannot acknowledge reality.

 

[Optophobia]

I would just like to know what people think of Howard's plan to make migrants learn English to be a citizen of Australia.

What about aboriginies, should they be compelled to learn english?

This is an election stunt. Howard doesn't *really believe it, he just says this shit to give off vibes which are interpreted as being support for the racist/conservative elements - around 40% of Australia. Meanwhile, he stabs them in the back.

we have greek family friends and the grandmother doesn't speak more than a few words of english and she has been here for 30 years. It's her loss, not ours. If she doesn't want to, we can't force her, nor can we say "no, only english speaking immigrants may enter", because that's just stupid. Language doesn't equate to much.

As that islamic girl on the news said, everytime there is a dip in the polls, either howard or one of his ministers makes a remark with a touch of anti-islamicism in it. Nothing outright, but enough to feed the hunger of the blood thirsty racists - stealing their votes, meanwhile letting in record numbers of immigrants without ever releasing the actual number to the nation. He's a 2-way back stabber.

America has a compulsory english language test or something - and look what a wonderful nation it is..

 

[sam04u]

Actually ZabZu, my Jewish buddy I beg to differ. I believe it is the Islamic-Australians who (for the time they've existed in Australia) and their polar belief systems have integrated 'better' in comparison to their ideologies as a group.

I don't think I've ever seen a Jew person embracing Australian sub-culture, by attending a game of cricket or football. I'm also 'very' sure that the Australian Jewish community has secluded themselves in nothern sydney (near the bondi area to be specific), they also rarely leave this area.

but many Muslims still segregate themselves from the rest of Australia

.
Once again a false statement. I've yet to see a Lebanese fruit or sweets shop deny access to Non-Muslim people. SMH, is again making up more crap since Australia does not allow incest and therefore none can marry within the family. I've also seen Islamic people marry people of different religions and cultures in Australia, Yet' I've never seen a Jewish person marry anybody except another Jewish person.

Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that you're spewing a load of crap.
Also that you're a racist, trying to stir more racial violence. Hopefully we will not succumb to your crap you imbecilic bigot. Instead, we should try to work together as we have in the past.

As to the topic of this thread, I agree to an almost certain extent. People should learn english upon entering Australia as to protect their own rights. In countries like America, many 'Mexican' Immigrants live not knowing their basic rights and are paid as slaves working hard labour way below minimum wage. (because they don't speak the language).

There should be one exception though. A high percentage of Australians came to Australia as 'refugees' fleeing persecution, sometimes it's impossible for people like these to learn english before coming to Australia. They could be killed if they don't reach a safe area quick. This is an Issue, if Australia decides to remain a safe-haven for people in countries, which persecute them.

 

[banco55]

What about aboriginies, should they be compelled to learn english?

This is an election stunt. Howard doesn't *really believe it, he just says this shit to give off vibes which are interpreted as being support for the racist/conservative elements - around 40% of Australia. Meanwhile, he stabs them in the back.

we have greek family friends and the grandmother doesn't speak more than a few words of english and she has been here for 30 years. It's her loss, not ours. If she doesn't want to, we can't force her, nor can we say "no, only english speaking immigrants may enter", because that's just stupid. Language doesn't equate to much.

As that islamic girl on the news said, everytime there is a dip in the polls, either howard or one of his ministers makes a remark with a touch of anti-islamicism in it. Nothing outright, but enough to feed the hunger of the blood thirsty racists - stealing their votes, meanwhile letting in record numbers of immigrants without ever releasing the actual number to the nation. He's a 2-way back stabber.

America has a compulsory english language test or something - and look what a wonderful nation it is..

Yeah apart from the fact that if you have poor english you'll find it difficult to get a decent job and difficult to participate in australian society language doesn't mean much. The US has been pretty damn sucessful actually at integrating their immigrant population.

 

[banco55]

Actually ZabZu, my Jewish buddy I beg to differ. I believe it is the Islamic-Australians who (for the time they've existed in Australia) and their polar belief systems have integrated 'better' in comparison to their ideologies as a group.

I don't think I've ever seen a Jew person embracing Australian sub-culture, by attending a game of cricket or football. I'm also 'very' sure that the Australian Jewish community has secluded themselves in nothern sydney (near the bondi area to be specific), they also rarely leave this area.

.
Once again a false statement. I've yet to see a Lebanese fruit or sweets shop deny access to Non-Muslim people. SMH, is again making up more crap since Australia does not allow incest and therefore none can marry within the family. I've also seen Islamic people marry people of different religions and cultures in Australia, Yet' I've never seen a Jewish person marry anybody except another Jewish person.

Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that you're spewing a load of crap.
Also that you're a racist, trying to stir more racial violence. Hopefully we will not succumb to your crap you imbecilic bigot. Instead, we should try to work together as we have in the past.

As to the topic of this thread, I agree to an almost certain extent. People should learn english upon entering Australia as to protect their own rights. In countries like America, many 'Mexican' Immigrants live not knowing their basic rights and are paid as slaves working hard labour way below minimum wage. (because they don't speak the language).

There should be one exception though. A high percentage of Australians came to Australia as 'refugees' fleeing persecution, sometimes it's impossible for people like these to learn english before coming to Australia. They could be killed if they don't reach a safe area quick. This is an Issue, if Australia decides to remain a safe-haven for people in countries, which persecute them.

Depends how broadly you define "family". There was a story awhile ago about the number of muslims in sydney who were marrying cousins and the attendant health problems.

 

[Optophobia]

Yeah apart from the fact that if you have poor english you'll find it difficult to get a decent job and difficult to participate in australian society language doesn't mean much.

That's not our problem, it's their's.

The US has been pretty damn sucessful actually at integrating their immigrant population.

lol, don't speak about something you obviously have no idea about. USA is crap and i would NEVER want to live there.

 

[banco55]

That's not our problem, it's their's.
lol, don't speak about something you obviously have no idea about. USA is crap and i would NEVER want to live there.

They don't have muslim nutcases rioting in the streets and they don't seem to have homegrown muslim nutcases blowing up buses or stabbing filmmakers to death in the street so they seem to be doing better than Europe.

 

[Comrade nathan]

What proof is there that non-english speaking people are not intergrating. Who are these non-english speakers, are they in a age group that needs to know english?

The non-literate english speakers that I know are retired pensioners. I would assume the non-english speakers are in the same group. Im sure alot of us even know someone our age whos first langauge is not english, and either do not speak english or do not speak it well, but the children all speak English well.

Howard hasn't excatly eleborated as to who these non-english speakers are, and what evidence he has to back up his claim people are resisting to speak English.

The US has been pretty damn sucessful actually at integrating their immigrant population.

In what ways?

 

[gerhard]

This is an election stunt. Howard doesn't *really believe it, he just says this shit to give off vibes which are interpreted as being support for the racist/conservative elements - around 40% of Australia. Meanwhile, he stabs them in the back.

we have greek family friends and the grandmother doesn't speak more than a few words of english and she has been here for 30 years. It's her loss, not ours. If she doesn't want to, we can't force her, nor can we say "no, only english speaking immigrants may enter", because that's just stupid. Language doesn't equate to much.

As that islamic girl on the news said, everytime there is a dip in the polls, either howard or one of his ministers makes a remark with a touch of anti-islamicism in it. Nothing outright, but enough to feed the hunger of the blood thirsty racists - stealing their votes, meanwhile letting in record numbers of immigrants without ever releasing the actual number to the nation. He's a 2-way back stabber.

I pretty much agree completely with this. This is exactly what I entered this thead to post. And I too know a Greek grandmother that cant speak any english.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Maybe we should wait another 10 yrs or so and see if the integration process works or not.

I totally support Uncle John, Australia should only accept law abiding people like me

 

[ZabZu]

I don't think I've ever seen a Jew person embracing Australian sub-culture, by attending a game of cricket or football. I'm also 'very' sure that the Australian Jewish community has secluded themselves in nothern sydney (near the bondi area to be specific), they also rarely leave this area.

I never knew Bondi was in northern Sydney. Jews are spanned over large parts of Sydney. Yes they are mainly based in the more affluent areas of Sydney such as the north shore and eastern suburbs (esp Bondi and St Ives) but theres smaller groups in the inner west and we heard about that synagogue in Parramatta that was attacked a few weeks ago.

Frank Lowy is Jewish and look what he has done for Australian soccer.

Yet' I've never seen a Jewish person marry anybody except another Jewish person.

I would prefer to marry a Jew but my preference is not based on racial superiority. Its because theres only 15 million Jews in the world and intermarriage has the potential to destroy the Jewish religion. There are over 1 billion Muslims and about 1.5-2 billion Christians in the world.

Also that you're a racist, trying to stir more racial violence.

Thats why i said i was outraged at the treatment of non-Jews in Israel.

I dont discriminate people based colour, religion, nationality, etc. Unfortunately racism is very high in western Sydney, mainly in areas with ethnic diversity. I believe segregation causes racism because when people of different cultures dont interact they cant break down stereotypes.

The Muslim community is in control of its own fate.

 

[sam04u]

The Muslim community is in control of its own fate.

I really hope that's true. Islam isn't going no where, 'fastest growing religion'.

Also, please keep your story straight, why not support the statements you made? Jewish people have for the most part 'not-integrated' you could say they've gone as far as to isolate themselves. I just want to know why you would make racist statements like "Islam isn't assimilating" or what not when it's clearly not true.

Then you retract your statement when a muslim person responds to your racist post? I'm honestly dumbfounded as to the ammount of cowardess you've just displayed. If I hadn't posted the potential of your brewed racism could have spiralled this thread.

Thankfully there are sane people in this universe.

-End

 

[lengy]

I don't know about you but I actually live in south west Sydney and I don't see this prevalence of racial hatred. Where exactly are the problems? The only problems are those that are created in the minds of you intolerant racists trying to create dramas out of nothing.

 

[AntiHyper]

Maybe apply this to only immigrants in the future, if we already have english-illiterate people in Australia then let them be.

In the international arrival terminal, they have counters where you need to do all the passport stuff. Here you do need to talk to them and the forms you fill in during the flight for baggage declarations need some literacy in english. We stuttered our way through the counters and for the baggage declaration form we needed a dictionary out to fill them in.

That probably would fail the "standard english" necessary for this new migration plan.


I also propose an age range or limitation, to exclude children from the plan since they're able to learn a new language much easier than adults. Who can blame a child for being dumb, they're still under that "white flag", protected from discrimination.

 

[Optophobia]

Maybe apply this to only immigrants in the future, if we already have english-illiterate people in Australia then let them be.

What do you hope to gain by setting a language test?

Either they learn english and get out and about, or they don't which is fine by me. Either way it doesn't affect Australia.

Once again this is just Howard sparking nationalist notions through the media "yeh howard's a good mate, he's the only one speaking up saying these things, the labor party aren't, i guess i'd better vote for him"..... despite the fact that in 2004/2005 the federal liberal government let in more immigrants than any other government in the history of the nation. If there's a reason why they don't learn english, it's because they have been mass-introduced into australia to work in Howard's mates factories at 2 cents an hour, where they all congregate. This was certainly the case for the german population in the 1960's in Australia. They largely didn't learn English because they worked in mills and other hard labour - absent from Australians and so didn't need to learn English. John howard's a bullshitter, but the media will never expose him, it's not in their interests (AT ALL).

He's exploiting popular notions of language and identity, using the issue of conformity. If some people don't speak english, well that's their choice, they obviously haven't felt the need to learn it. The second generation, which are obliged to go to school, learn English.

He was very careful to pick on Muslims, because they are the unpopular ones at the moment. 10 years ago it would have been asians. 30 years ago, greeks. 120 years ago... asians again.

 

[ZabZu]

I just want to know why you would make racist statements like "Islam isn't assimilating" or what not when it's clearly not true.

Thats not a racist statement. Im cricitising elements of the Muslim community not the all Muslims.

Some Lebanese people (Muslims or Christian) go around in their sportscars looking for fights with European looking males.

Some Muslims call Australian girls as "sluts" because they dont dress conservatively like Muslim women. These people dont have any respect for Australian culture.

I heard on the news a few days ago that some Muslims (most likely Lebanese) in western Sydney were handing out pro-Hezbollah pamphlets saying that Israel has no right to exist.

Some Muslims disregard Australian law if it conflicts with the Islamic Sharia law.

These comments are all facts. You can call me what you want but the Muslim community has to do something to stop this negative image of themselves.

 

[AntiHyper]

What do you hope to gain by setting a language test?

Either they learn english and get out and about, or they don't which is fine by me. Either way it doesn't affect Australia.

I hope that the new immigrants will be able to join the work force and help Australia's businesses grow. Therefore they need to learn english, unless they're going to work in some farm in which case they'd be working as slaves. (Eg. the farm around cape york that imports unskilled workers)

I'm also sure that we prefer not to have those immigrants to slomp here and be acquainted with centrelink. Be productive at least and contribute to the society.