Maths or Science compulsory for Year 11/12 Students (1 Viewer)

photastic

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BLIT2014

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I do not think science should be made compulsory but they should be attempting to gain more skilled, qualified and teachers who can actually teach science properly...
 

nerdasdasd

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I think that maths and science should be made compulsory as we are heading towards a new generation of scientific discovery.

To not prepare ourselves for this challenge would disadvantage the nation and its future.
 

BLIT2014

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I think we should have compulsory second language program up till year 10.
 

Drongoski

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I don't think anything should be compulsory. We should be able to learn what we want.

If some kids don't want to learn math + science, who cares.
That's right. Right behind you!
 

nerdasdasd

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I don't think anything should be compulsory. We should be able to learn what we want.

If some kids don't want to learn math + science, who cares.
Who cares ?

We will have a nation in the future with little mathematics and science literacy.

Now that's something to be worried about
 
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I guess even general maths would make sense to be compulsory but some people are not interested in science. Our senior years are supposed to consist of subjects that we can do well in and maybe be relevant to a future degree. If someone is not interested in a science after completing compulsory 7-10 science then why would science in senior years be any relevance to them?

Also high school science can't prepare us for rapid scientific changes. People would need to be qualified if they do want to make changes and that is not something high school can do for us.
 

Amundies

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Maths should be at least compulsory since it pretty much is the language of the majority of science and technology these days.
This. High school science has a lot of history, and tbh the maths that you study in high school is more like the stuff you do in uni science, so science probably doesn't need to be made compulsory.

There will always be kids wanting to pursue math and science - because it's involved in what they want to do in university.

I say that it shouldn't be compulsory because currently English is compulsory and I hate it. I can't say I don't want that compulsory, and then want math + science compulsory.

Instead of forcing kids / people to do something they don't want to do, we should probably focus on making them WANT to pick them voluntarily.
The point of making it compulsory is to get our population educated to some extent about what's actually happening in the science and maths world. It's not to force people to study maths and science so that they get interested in it and then want to pick it in university. I also hated (yes, hated, not just disliked) English, but now I'm in my 2nd year of uni I can see how it's useful in an abstract way to even my engineering degree. Not only that, but it forced me to do a subject with a different way of thinking and so taught me to be able to think in 2 different ways, one way for science and maths and the other for english. This also helps in uni since I'm doing two degrees that are so different from each other. If I got to go back to year 11 and 12 and was given the choice of getting rid of english for another subject or keeping english, I would probably keep it.

I think we should have compulsory second language program up till year 10.
This also would have been so good. I would have probably hated it then, but it would have been very useful.
 

mreditor16

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I think such a move would be well intentioned, but it wouldn't be effective and it would actually make things worse.

So, yes, we're entering a future where maths and science are increasingly important, and less and less students are picking it. However, for example, we don't have enough high school students graduating, going to uni to train up to be a maths and/or science teacher, and then entering the education system to make their mark. And of those who are, the number of teachers who can actually teach the content well is very few. Also, of the maths teachers coming through, very very few are actually able to teach 4U maths, for example. Increasingly, I see new teachers coming through who can only teach up to 2U Maths or at most 3U.

So, if you then make maths compulsory, you certainly need more maths teachers. And then increasingly a lot of students will learn maths as a subject in their senior studies, but they will not be taught by a teacher who properly knows their stuff and/or has the ability to teach it. Also, a relevant side effect you obtain by making maths and science compulsory is that you're actually increasing overall student disengagement with the subject. As an example, think back to year 12 students' attitudes towards Advanced English. Furthermore, disengagement is definitely exacerbated when you don't have enough qualified teachers who are able to teach the content and as a result you get many students who are a) compelled to do maths/science and b) taught by teachers who worsen the disengagement. In my eyes, if we look at the students who will be forced under this arrangement to do maths and/or science in year 12, a very very small percentage will actually end up anything maths or science related in university. In fact, from my perspective, if there are students who don't like the maths and sciences, then let them be. Forcing them to do it, after already giving them the opportunity to try it from year 7 to 10, isn't going reap much benefits.

Also, the article says "The global report card revealed that Australian students' rankings fell from 15th to 19th in mathematics and 10th to 16th in science." Then, as a result of that, my strong opinion is - Stop worrying about getting more students to do the maths and science subjects, by making it compulsory. Instead, focus on improving how we teach mathematics and science to current and future students, and focus on attracting more prospective science and mathematics teachers (especially those who are brighter and do have the capacity to teach things like 4U Maths, considering how we're seriously running low on teachers who can teach 4U Maths). If you focus on that, it will lead to enhanced learning and students getting more out of their secondary studies in the areas of science and mathematics. Then that will actually lead to more students actually choosing to study maths and/or science (both at the secondary and tertiary levels), which was the initial aim of the policy change.

EDIT - As mentioned by InteGrand, we also need to make changes to the syllabus, because that is also key to student engagement and so on and so forth.
 
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InteGrand

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We need to fix up the syllabi. No point forcing people to do the current HSC sciences (unless we want people to learn the history of science but not much actual science).
 

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Weed off the weak. Make science/maths harder. Scare away the people who choose those subjects for the heck of it and attract the ones that are actually interested in the sciences.
 
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I would actually argue that barely any subjects in the high school curriculum have any semblance towards application towards uni - with the exception of maths (you can pretty get through life via general maths), and some concepts in economics. HS is there to give you a general gist of how things work, to be honest.
There's more. I'm sure subjects like legal, IT and engineering would have relevance..

Weed off the weak. Make science/maths harder. Scare away the people who choose those subjects for the heck of it and attract the ones that are actually interested in the sciences.
That's why maths has extensions. People interested in sciences aren't always necessarily good at sciences and those good at them, might not even pick one
 

isildurrrr1

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Implement IB in Australia, you'll have a much more educated workforce.
 

nerdasdasd

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