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Thread: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

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    ремове кебаб wannaspoon's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    ^^^



    Quote Originally Posted by mcchicken View Post
    Calm your farm I didn't say you can't make a joke or something

    I say things with my friends all the time that I wouldn't say in public or in front of people I don't know

    But when you're opinion is "Islam is a bad religion" or "gay people are ew and need help" then I'm sorry but no
    Your!

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    madman in a box mcchicken's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdasdasd View Post
    Tolerance is a good thing, but I think it would be better off to make a TV ad or program.

    Though .. I do think school should be a place of learning about science, maths, etc... not social molding.
    Never said I was for this program

    Quote Originally Posted by wannaspoon View Post
    ^^^





    Your!
    Lol pick apart my typos because you have nothing else to say
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    Dont.msg.me.about.english nerdasdasd's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by mcchicken View Post
    Never said I was for this program



    Lol pick apart my typos because you have nothing else to say
    So are you against or for or neither?

    ahah
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    madman in a box mcchicken's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdasdasd View Post
    So are you against or for or neither?

    ahah
    I don't think the roleplay thing is okay

    Give 'em a little video or book or something

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    Dont.msg.me.about.english nerdasdasd's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by mcchicken View Post
    I don't think the roleplay thing is okay

    Give 'em a little video or book or something
    Defs , that would be more right ~
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdasdasd View Post
    The All of Us teaching manual has been ordered by 350 schools.

    A taxpayer-funded sexuality program that instructs 11-year-olds to role-play gay teenagers has been accused of crossing the line between education and advocacy in the classroom.

    The controversial Safe Schools Coalition program, which teaches high school students in years 7 and 8 about sexual diversity and inclusion, is pitting religious groups against gay rights advocates.

    Ostensibly an anti-bullying program, it takes a politically correct approach to sex education. Teachers are told it is “heterosexist’’ to refer to students as “girls and boys”. Prepubescent children are taught the meaning of terms such as “queer’’, “pansexual’’, “sister girl’’ and “trans guy’’.

    Nearly 500 of Australia’s schools are using the program and Victoria has ordered all government schools to sign on by 2019.

    The program’s teaching guide, All of Us, includes a role-playing lesson plan in which kids as young as 11 are told to imagine they are 16 and going out with “someone they are really into’’.

    "http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org.au/app/theme/default/design/assets/all-of-us/documents/unit-guide.pdf" = the booklet.
    ...

    What do people think about this?
    The whole thing's stupid to be honest. Why should taxpayers money be used for things that should be taught by the parents at home?

    And the fact that teachers are being told it's heterosexist to refer to the students and boys and girls...? That's so bloody stupid. Last time I checked, if you have a penis, you're a boy. If you have a vagina, you're a girl. What's new?

  7. #32
    Taking a break! dan964's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by mcchicken View Post
    Most of us prefaced our initial statements with "oh yeah the role play thing is a bit over the top and unnecessary"
    I am well aware of that. My point is the whole program, content-wise needs serious reform if it is going to be taught as an anti-bullying program, not just a change in the media/form of presentation. I not opposed to taking a stance against bullying in this area. It needs to be done, without "proselytizing" in a particular viewpoint on the issue, which is what SSC does.

    This argument never makes sense to me... How is tolerance not a thing we should all want for this world? How is saying "oh it's okay we're all entitled to our opinions" a valid excuse for any sort of discrimination? Why would you want your child and future generations to not practice tolerance?
    No because the definition of tolerance you are operating on, is one where you are only tolerant if you agree with said opinion. It is this new form of tolerance that is problematic. The old form, was yes I disagree with you, but I am not going to wage a war to prevent you from being able to speak your opinion. That is why it makes so sense to you, because we have a different understanding of "tolerance"

    I am all for tolerance, but not this new type that says crudely or vulgarly "Shut up and agree with me". This tends to be from the far left, although the far right employs similar tactics (that just use different terms to call it).

    Tolerance of the old form is: I can disagree with their lifestyle or opinion etc. and still respect them and allow them to give their opinion, without them being shut down in the public space. Yes it is difficult, but it certainly a more unifying argument. The public sphere is a place for where ideas can be contested, argued, debated at the like - if that wasn't the case, then the government as it stands would be very one-sided.

    ===

    Secondly, discrimination is a loaded word that is thrown around without sometimes any though. I can discriminate between two things as being different, without being rude or offensive. There are two meanings to that word, I understand you probably refer to the other:

    1. "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex."
    2. "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another."

    The first is not excusable, but the second is perfectly normal and good, and what hopefully should be what is there rather than the first. It is important to understand difference and recognize it. The lines can be blurred of course.

    It is good to recognize the differences between for instance the genders/sexes, or the difference between someone who is 5 years old and someone who is 25 or 80, that they are not the same, but yet still as equal in dignity, respect etc. etc. Well if there is a difference, the how do we make that obvious? This program, seeks to its radical view of equality, remove all forms of discrimination, which is reasonable except that it includes the valid form which is discernment of differences and recognition and understanding between the genders/sexes, and also between homosexual/heterosexual relationships.
    Last edited by dan964; 25 Feb 2016 at 12:05 PM.

  8. #33
    madman in a box mcchicken's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by dan964 View Post
    I am well aware of that. My point is the whole program, content-wise needs serious reform if it is going to be taught as an anti-bullying program, not just a change in the media/form of presentation. I not opposed to taking a stance against bullying in this area. It needs to be done, without "proselytizing" in a particular viewpoint on the issue, which is what SSC does.



    No because the definition of tolerance you are operating on, is one where you are only tolerant if you agree with said opinion. It is this new form of tolerance that is problematic. The old form, was yes I disagree with you, but I am not going to wage a war to prevent you from being able to speak your opinion. That is why it makes so sense to you, because we have a different understanding of "tolerance"

    I am all for tolerance, but not this new type that says crudely or vulgarly "Shut up and agree with me". This tends to be from the far left, although the far right employs similar tactics (that just use different terms to call it).

    Tolerance of the old form is: I can disagree with their lifestyle or opinion etc. and still respect them and allow them to give their opinion, without them being shut down in the public space. Yes it is difficult, but it certainly a more unifying argument. The public sphere is a place for where ideas can be contested, argued, debated at the like - if that wasn't the case, then the government as it stands would be very one-sided.

    ===

    Secondly, discrimination is a loaded word that is thrown around without sometimes any though. I can discriminate between two things as being different, without being rude or offensive. There are two meanings to that word, I understand you probably refer to the other:

    1. "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex."
    2. "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another."

    The first is not excusable, but the second is perfectly normal and good, and what hopefully should be what is there rather than the first. It is important to understand difference and recognize it. The lines can be blurred of course.

    It is good to recognize the differences between for instance the genders/sexes, or the difference between someone who is 5 years old and someone who is 25 or 80, that they are not the same, but yet still as equal in dignity, respect etc. etc. Well if there is a difference, the how do we make that obvious? This program, seeks to its radical view of equality, remove all forms of discrimination, which is reasonable except that it includes the valid form which is discernment of differences and recognition and understanding between the genders/sexes, and also between homosexual/heterosexual relationships.
    Maybe in my annoyance last night I didn't make my stance quite clear - my bad.

    When I say 'tolerance' I don't mean everyone has to be a giant leftie and blah blah. I know plenty of people who don't understand other religions/sexual orientations/whatever and might not even like seeing it but nonetheless respect that group of people and their right to practice whatever they want. This is fine. It's just the moment someone like that opens their mouth to publicly shame said group of people is when I have a problem.

    I don't want people to just see the words of an open-minded person and be like "oh I have to adopt that opinion because XYZ", I want people to do it of their own accord. Again, I have to apologise as I did appear quite rash and passive aggressive last night. I can only attribute that to the fact that some of the people I was addressing were just trolls anyway. Thank you for your well thought out response.

    When I mentioned discrimination I was thinking specifically of the lack of rights for LGBT+ (primarily marriage equality).

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    Taking a break! dan964's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by mcchicken View Post
    Maybe in my annoyance last night I didn't make my stance quite clear - my bad.

    When I say 'tolerance' I don't mean everyone has to be a giant leftie and blah blah. I know plenty of people who don't understand other religions/sexual orientations/whatever and might not even like seeing it but nonetheless respect that group of people and their right to practice whatever they want. This is fine. It's just the moment someone like that opens their mouth to publicly shame said group of people is when I have a problem.

    I don't want people to just see the words of an open-minded person and be like "oh I have to adopt that opinion because XYZ", I want people to do it of their own accord. Again, I have to apologise as I did appear quite rash and passive aggressive last night. I can only attribute that to the fact that some of the people I was addressing were just trolls anyway. Thank you for your well thought out response.

    When I mentioned discrimination I was thinking specifically of the lack of rights for LGBT+ (primarily marriage equality).
    No I understand, and it is all forgiven. I say stuff on other threads, that isn't thought through as well as possible. Although with this issue, care is taken.

    Yes, there are trolls (from both sides of the floor), and there are genuine homophobes of course as that.
    (On the flip side, although for I am not personally in this boat, but probably for the LGBTQI community, a lot needs to work on how public perception is for instance. If all the media presents them as in sequins, and leotards during Mardi Gras, that it doesn't for them help the perception in the public space. It is not helpful for them I guess)

    For discrimination, I guess we will have to disagree on marriage/whether it is a "rights" issue for instance, whether for instance the right of marriage extends to alternative sexual expressions for instance, for you the answer would (I suspect) be yes,

    For me it is a no: I personally don't see anything discriminatory for instance about the current laws, which make no mention of sexual expression but rather express what was a common understanding of marriage in terms of its purpose, function and form. (While I also see, Australia, uniquely allows for the legal rights/benefits of a marriage, for those who aren't in marriage but in a de-facto relationship).

    I don't think that the government should decide on marriage laws, simply on when it is "morally right" or "morally wrong" because it would prove too divisive if such, but need to assess, well if same-marriage is introduced what are the implications? This is the biggest hurdle - thinking what about the implications of changing the laws, because there is even if they are not evident, especially when there are currently equal pushes from not just the marriage equality front, but also in transgender issues and the like.

    Working out these implications, such as education (SSC included), how do we educate on these issues, in a sensible reasonable matter. How does this affect, conscience, the right of those who disagree (respectfully of course), to be excused on matters on conscience concerning the implementation of such changes? How would the laws, prevent the so-called slippery slope argument? etc. etc.

    Understandably there are many issues, many perspectives, many answers. Now, is the time for tolerable discussion.
    mcchicken likes this.

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    ремове кебаб wannaspoon's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by mcchicken View Post
    Lol pick apart my typos because you have nothing else to say
    You tolerate bad smells and annoying sounds... You don't "tolerate" people...

    The whole notion of "tolerance" is predicated on collective authoritarianism and interventionist policies... a political tactic that, through the ages, has not worked very well...

    If you wonder why you are seeing a resurgent far right in Europe, thank the leftists...
    Last edited by wannaspoon; 25 Feb 2016 at 2:31 PM.

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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by jenandeeb View Post
    The whole thing's stupid to be honest. Why should taxpayers money be used for things that should be taught by the parents at home?

    And the fact that teachers are being told it's heterosexist to refer to the students and boys and girls...? That's so bloody stupid. Last time I checked, if you have a penis, you're a boy. If you have a vagina, you're a girl. What's new?
    It's only 6 million dollars. Pocket money to the government compared to what they spend on other less worthy programs.
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    Magniloquent Member soloooooo's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    I don't believe it belongs in the classroom. The funding should be stopped.

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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolmias View Post
    It's only 6 million dollars. Pocket money to the government compared to what they spend on other less worthy programs.
    up to 8 million
    Still it is irrelevant what the funding is. The nature of the program at times is dubious, and needs to be rethought through if it is to remain in schools.

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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    race mixing is a crime

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    Magniloquent Member soloooooo's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by saltedwound View Post
    Shut the fuck up. If you don't like it, DON'T GO THERE. Simple.
    No. We should cater for the majority, not the minority.

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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by soloooooo View Post
    No. We should cater for the majority, not the minority.
    Does this program negatively affect the majority? No.

    Does it cater for a minority and provides them with a safe environment to deal with the problems which LGBTQI youth often face. Yes.

    So what's the problem then?
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    I complete the Squar3 Queenroot's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by soloooooo View Post
    No. We should cater for the majority, not the minority.
    Last time that happened Tony Abbott got elected lmao

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    Magniloquent Member soloooooo's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by Queenroot View Post
    Last time that happened Tony Abbott got elected lmao
    Trump will become president also. The world is waking up to Europes growing problems which will soon be at our shores.

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    madman in a box mcchicken's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by soloooooo View Post
    Trump will become president also. The world is waking up to Europes growing problems which will soon be at our shores.
    He may win the inter-party election (to become the candidate for his party) but he won't win the actual election lol it'll be Hilary

    But if Cruz wins over Trump then he'd have more of a chance at beating Hilary, although personally I don't think he will
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    ремове кебаб wannaspoon's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by mcchicken View Post
    He may win the inter-party election (to become the candidate for his party) but he won't win the actual election lol it'll be Hilary

    But if Cruz wins over Trump then he'd have more of a chance at beating Hilary, although personally I don't think he will
    You may have to eat your words later on this year...

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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by wannaspoon View Post
    You may have to eat your words later on this year...
    Trump won't win without Murdoch's backing.

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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom


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    ремове кебаб wannaspoon's Avatar
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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by braintic View Post
    Trump won't win without Murdoch's backing.
    With what he did to Julia Gillard, don't think he is going to be placing bets on Hillary...

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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ren...6a57596b153cd8

    - cheltenham 'girls' school
    no comment needed.

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    Re: Safe Schools Coalition: sexual politics in the classroom

    Quote Originally Posted by dan964 View Post
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ren...6a57596b153cd8

    - cheltenham 'girls' school
    no comment needed.
    did u just assume their gender? cis scumlord



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    other bos-ers have a penis pic sharing club and i'm debating whether i want in on it or not


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