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Thread: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

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    "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/educa...18-go8w1u.html

    For the past 20 years in a row, one Sydney high school has taken out the top HSC results in the state.

    At James Ruse High in Sydney's north-west, an ATAR of above 99 is so expected that it became its own satire song.

    "100 ATAR, 100 ATAR, 100 ATAR," year 12 students rapped in a take on Psy's Gangnam Style. "99.95, not good enough".

    It is also a school where up to 80 per cent of students come from a language background other than English, most of them from Asian families, according to the NSW Department of Education.

    And yet, the statistics show that despite students of Asian origin dominating the academic scale at schools like James Ruse Agricultural High around the country, few rise to the top of the political, business and academic pile.

    Australians of Asian descent make up to 12 per cent of the country's population but only four members of the federal Parliament. Of the 17 government departments only one counts a leader of Asian descent as its head.

    The statistics are similarly damning in the private sector. Only 1.9 per cent of executive managers and 4.2 percent of directors come from Asian backgrounds, according to a 2013 Diversity Council Australia study.

    At the entry level, discrimination, conscious or unconscious, is endemic. On average, a Chinese person must submit 68 per cent more applications to gain employment than a person of Anglo-Saxon descent, according to a 2011 study from the Australian National University.

    "For 30 years, James Ruse has been pumping out very clever Asians," said University of Sydney vice-chancellor Michael Spence. "Where are they?"
    [...]
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Cause most of them are too basement.

    Probably just became doctors.

    Doctor doesn't really mean leadership role.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumi View Post
    lol

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    A lot of people in those positions are quite old. Were there really as many asians in the school system 30 years ago?

    I think we will start to see them popping up in the near future.

    (maybe?)
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Me thinks I concur with the two above statements

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Gee, it's almost as if being a valuable, successful employee depends on a lot more things than just your HSC results. It's almost as if being a basement asian who spends all of your free time studying doesn't mean you have all the necessary skills to be productive in the real world.
    Last edited by SylviaB; 2 May 2016 at 10:35 AM.

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by SylviaB View Post
    Gee, it's almost as if being a valuable, successful employee depends on a lot more things than just your HSC results. It's almost as if being a basement asian who spends all of your free time studying doesn't mean you have all the necessary skills to be productive in the real world.
    Most of hsc is rote anyway.

    I agree with you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumi View Post
    lol

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    That's strange, not many asian politicians. Imean, we know that there are exactly the same proportion of asian and white students studying law and attempting to get into poltiics. Don't we? We know that right?

    Except we don't know that at all.

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafy View Post
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/educa...18-go8w1u.html

    For the past 20 years in a row, one Sydney high school has taken out the top HSC results in the state.

    At James Ruse High in Sydney's north-west, an ATAR of above 99 is so expected that it became its own satire song.

    "100 ATAR, 100 ATAR, 100 ATAR," year 12 students rapped in a take on Psy's Gangnam Style. "99.95, not good enough".

    It is also a school where up to 80 per cent of students come from a language background other than English, most of them from Asian families, according to the NSW Department of Education.

    And yet, the statistics show that despite students of Asian origin dominating the academic scale at schools like James Ruse Agricultural High around the country, few rise to the top of the political, business and academic pile.

    Australians of Asian descent make up to 12 per cent of the country's population but only four members of the federal Parliament. Of the 17 government departments only one counts a leader of Asian descent as its head.

    The statistics are similarly damning in the private sector. Only 1.9 per cent of executive managers and 4.2 percent of directors come from Asian backgrounds, according to a 2013 Diversity Council Australia study.

    At the entry level, discrimination, conscious or unconscious, is endemic. On average, a Chinese person must submit 68 per cent more applications to gain employment than a person of Anglo-Saxon descent, according to a 2011 study from the Australian National University.

    "For 30 years, James Ruse has been pumping out very clever Asians," said University of Sydney vice-chancellor Michael Spence. "Where are they?"
    [...]
    Yes. They do get the 'academic marks required'. But most of these roles rely in social contact and face to face communications. I'm not saying they all are like this - but most of these "100 ATAR" individuals are so socially alienated when achieving their marks they fail make connections and in effect rise to the top. They are much better off staying under the radar instead of being outgoing and grasping all opportunities. Obviously I don't say all of them like that - but an enough majority of people.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    The problem is that unlike Japan, China, Korea and to a lesser extent the USA, High School performance isnt a reliable predictor of future success in Australia. In those countries, success at High School sets you up to go to a top uni which in term sets you up for a top role. Conversely, a poor showing at high school really cripples your future prospects. Australia being the land of the fair go, success in HS or Uni doesnt set you up for future success much in the same way.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    They're all overseas getting paid heaps more, or they're a doctor. No jobs here in AUS.
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    "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    The problem is that unlike Japan, China, Korea and to a lesser extent the USA, High School performance isnt a reliable predictor of future success in Australia. In those countries, success at High School sets you up to go to a top uni which in term sets you up for a top role. Conversely, a poor showing at high school really cripples your future prospects. Australia being the land of the fair go, success in HS or Uni doesnt set you up for future success much in the same way.
    Would you rather a society where people think of suicide in the dozens just cause they can't get a job + grades

    Or

    Would you rather a society that gives second chances?
    ...
    From my experiences with Hong Kong , Singaporean, Chinese and Taiwanese relatives / friends, it doesn't sound great (first option ).

    The amount of pressure is crazy not only cause their entire life is based on one exam but their value in society is as well.

    The amount of societal division based on education and occupation is crazy too.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    Australia being the land of the fair go, success in HS or Uni doesnt set you up for future success much in the same way.
    It has nothing to do with a "fair go". Academic marks alone are not a reliable indicator of future performance and employers know this. They seek people with strong communication skills, leadership potential and the right culture/personality.

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdasdasd View Post
    Would you rather a society where people think of suicide in the dozens just cause they can't get a job + grades
    Im not saying it should be that extreme. However, I believe the HSC and University should count for a lot more. I dont like the whole "People only care about your ATAR for two weeks after your results" mentality. The system should reward those who do well much more and should make it much more difficult for those that dont. I think Australia should become more of a meritocracy as opposed to the current state of mediocrity.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by SylviaB View Post
    It has nothing to do with a "fair go". Academic marks alone are not a reliable indicator of future performance and employers know this. They seek people with strong communication skills, leadership potential and the right culture/personality.
    I realise this, hence why school/uni should reflect this to a far higher degree. In the US, you need a combination of grades, SATs, ECs, essays etc to get into the better universities. Going to better unis offers a higher calibre education which opens the door to better opportunities.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdasdasd View Post
    Would you rather a society where people think of suicide in the dozens just cause they can't get a job + grades

    Or

    Would you rather a society that gives second chances?
    ...
    From my experiences with Hong Kong , Singaporean, Chinese and Taiwanese relatives / friends, it doesn't sound great (first option ).

    The amount of pressure is crazy not only cause their entire life is based on one exam but their value in society is as well.

    The amount of societal division based on education and occupation is crazy too.
    meanwhile i have friends with frigging awesome marks who can't even get a job

    i'd rather a meritocracy
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    Going to better unis offers a higher calibre education which opens the door to better opportunities.
    Debatable, or at least its marginal

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    "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowdude View Post
    meanwhile i have friends with frigging awesome marks who can't even get a job

    i'd rather a meritocracy
    There is meritocracy. If social skills are the problem (which some people suggest), make an effort to improve them.

    Ta da. Equal playing field.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    Going to better unis offers a higher calibre education which opens the door to better opportunities.
    So how are we increasing the calibre of our unis? Doesn't the USA need all those things mentioned because the competition is so fierce?

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by SylviaB View Post
    Debatable, or at least its marginal
    Im saying in the US, in Australia they are all pretty much equal. Harvard is a vastly superior uni to San Jose State. Sydney University isnt that much better than something like UOW or Notre Dame.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Kebab ceiling is the next thing. "Why are not enough lebs in leadership roles"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumi View Post
    lol

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by enoilgam View Post
    Im saying in the US, in Australia they are all pretty much equal. Harvard is a vastly superior uni to San Jose State. Sydney University isnt that much better than something like UOW or Notre Dame.
    Yeah I agree, unis here are all really similar. Usyd and unsw just get extra hype
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumi View Post
    lol

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop21 View Post
    A lot of people in those positions are quite old. Were there really as many asians in the school system 30 years ago?

    I think we will start to see them popping up in the near future.

    (maybe?)
    Yeah, I have the same/a similar thought.

    I feel that it will change/improve in the next 20-30 years as more and more Asians go through the university system and working scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by SylviaB View Post
    That's strange, not many asian politicians. Imean, we know that there are exactly the same proportion of asian and white students studying law and attempting to get into poltiics. Don't we? We know that right?

    Except we don't know that at all.
    If we exclude any bamboo ceiling arguments:
    Generally, politics isn't a popular career path for Asians. Less Asians going for politics --> obviously less presence in the political field. I think a majority of 'Asian law students' are setting their sights on fields such as legal practice, accounting, finance, consulting, investment banking, etc.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by BandSixFix View Post
    Yes. They do get the 'academic marks required'. But most of these roles rely in social contact and face to face communications. I'm not saying they all are like this - but most of these "100 ATAR" individuals are so socially alienated when achieving their marks they fail make connections and in effect rise to the top. They are much better off staying under the radar instead of being outgoing and grasping all opportunities. Obviously I don't say all of them like that - but an enough majority of people.
    As someone who knows nearly half the 99.95s last year, I can't match your description to any single one of them.

    And most of these "100 ATAR" students haven't even left uni yet - so they couldn't have risen to the top regardless of their apparently non-existent social skills.

    Doing well academically is not mutually exclusive with strong communication and interpersonal skills. I honestly think the whole "street smarts" thing is a myth perpetuated by Australia's tall poppy syndrome.
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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulful View Post
    And most of these "100 ATAR" students haven't even left uni yet - so they couldn't have risen to the top regardless of their apparently non-existent social skills.

    tell that to the author then, dickhead

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    Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

    most asian guys are short and low-test
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