Poll: Is there hope without a god?

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    Is there hope without a God?

    Is there hope in the world without a god? If so what is this hope, where is the basis of this hope found? If not what hope does this God bring to human life or what do you do without hope in such a world as this?

    I think that it is important to bring up these sort of topics once in a while and to listen to what people say and read there comments then respectfully reply with our point of veiw. Please try and take the time to be respectful. It is good to get to understand different points of view so that we can make informed decisions and reply without ignorance
    Last edited by OrangeTasselBluebird; 23 Jun 2016 at 12:31 AM.

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    I'm a Catholic and despite not going to Church or 'expressing' my faith in the sense of adhering to a routine schedule of devout servitude, I still feel as if I maintain a connection with the deity. What you've stated above, I took to mean two things;

    1) Is there hope for mankind without the existence of God but the belief in God?
    2) Is there hope for mankind with/without the existence of God but no belief of a God?

    Which is it you're asking?
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    belief in God is a personal decision and needs to be carefully considered. What I am asking is
    If god does not exist is there hope and where is that hope found (i.e. in family )
    does the existance of hope in life rely upon the existance of a god (i.e. would there be no hope with no god)

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Yes, but you're saying that belief in God is a personal choice made according to one's volition and then you got on to say what if God does not exist. What doesn't make sense is that if you can believe in God then the notion of God's nonexistence is downplayed, in addition to this, if God truly didn't exist we wouldn't even know.

    However the question of 'Does hope rely upon the existence of God?' Hope in the afterlife? Yes. Hope in the second-coming? Yes. Hope in whether or not McDonald's opens a restaurant near you? No. I find this question difficult to answer, and I found myself circulating back to the meaning of life and I also began to ask myself if whether or not I'll be petrified by the notion of no afterlife. Granted I live a fulfilling life, I don't care.

    "You are the accidental by-product of nature, a result of matter plus time plus chance. There is no reason for your existence. All you face is death." I'd like to think it's more than this, it's definitely not accounting for the life we lead and of course, the part of us we leave behind. Ultimately, to answer 'Is there hope without a God?' in a very broad and general sense, I guess so.
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    My intentions in posting this were to allow people to delve into such questions of existance and the notion of hope. It is an abstract existential question and I am glad that it allowed you to think about life's meaning and your views on this. Maybe I should start a new thread about what hope is but I feel like maybe thats for another night.
    The question of god's existance does go hand in hand with a question like this and thus is open to respectful discussion here.
    I think the question you are battling with is what does hope mean. I am refering to a longer lived hope than that of the hope of an open mcdonalds around the corner. I guess my hope links more in with the purpose of life. Does life have a purpose? Is God the purpose of our lives? What brings hope to our existance.

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Inb4shitstorm

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Queenroot View Post
    Inb4shitstorm
    Just play nice kids

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Not necessarily God - but a belief in a higher form of enlightenment/figure is a requirement for hope.

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Dude, read the rest of my post. I don't like to affiliate with the Church at all and I'm disgusted by the lack of transparency shown by the Church especially when it pertains to pedophilia. I prefer a more intimate connection with God and I think of him more as a fatherly figure than someone I got to kneel down to just to speak with.
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian's daily and nightly prayers, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest?

    Not going to start praying for Satan but it's interesting. It's a Mark Twain quote.
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    god god god 123 123 123

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian's daily and nightly prayers, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest?

    Not going to start praying for Satan but it's interesting. It's a Mark Twain quote.
    Satan worshipper confirmed

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by sinophile View Post
    god god god 123 123 123
    Illuminati confirmed
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Hope should solely come from within, we all have the strength within ourselves to persevere and achieve our strongest desires. It is this self-belief which provides the greatest hope that what we want will come to be. It is foolish to think a belief in God is a requirement, if god does exist he/she will not randomly grant everyones wishes

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian's daily and nightly prayers, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest?

    Not going to start praying for Satan but it's interesting. It's a Mark Twain quote.
    praying for satan is heresy

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    There is no hope, with or without "God"

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeTasselBluebird View Post
    Is there hope in the world without a god? If so what is this hope, where is the basis of this hope found? If not what hope does this God bring to human life or what do you do without hope in such a world as this?

    I think that it is important to bring up these sort of topics once in a while and to listen to what people say and read there comments then respectfully reply with our point of veiw. Please try and take the time to be respectful. It is good to get to understand different points of view so that we can make informed decisions and reply without ignorance
    you do realise there is a related thread on this...
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeTasselBluebird View Post
    My intentions in posting this were to allow people to delve into such questions of existance and the notion of hope. It is an abstract existential question and I am glad that it allowed you to think about life's meaning and your views on this. Maybe I should start a new thread about what hope is but I feel like maybe thats for another night.
    The question of god's existance does go hand in hand with a question like this and thus is open to respectful discussion here.
    I think the question you are battling with is what does hope mean. I am refering to a longer lived hope than that of the hope of an open mcdonalds around the corner. I guess my hope links more in with the purpose of life. Does life have a purpose? Is God the purpose of our lives? What brings hope to our existance.
    there is a thread for that, note
    Does God exist?
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simorgh View Post
    The hypocrisy mate. You even have a symptom of internalised racism against your own ethnicity and culture that you belittle and insult.

    Funny how you argue for other religions to reform in your many posts, whereas Catholicism hasn't faced any reformation in the many centuries?
    The ignorance in this post (although I won't comment on the first); there was the Reformation in the 1600s, which led to what we call Protestantism; originally Luther's aim was to reform the church, especially he was opposed was with indulgences (paying for closer access to God); not start a new separate denomination.

    There was also the counter-reformation movement as well. Even as a non-Catholic, I comment that there have been indeed movements within Catholicism to reform it in some measure; more recently, to put to end those things which you mentioned.

    ====

    I will say even as one who believes in God and Christ; there is hope, especially in the concept of a resurrection; obviously there in most religions that believe in religion, including mine, there isn't really hope for those who don't believe.

    I personally don't see any hope in reincarnation, and also hope is not in religion more generally (since I am using a broad category of religion, whose definition resembles that more so of "worldviews").
    Last edited by dan964; 24 Jun 2016 at 9:44 AM.
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by dan964 View Post
    The ignorance in this post (although I won't comment on the first); there was the Reformation in the 1600s, which led to what we call Protestantism; originally Luther's aim was to reform the church, especially he was opposed was with indulgences (paying for closer access to God); not start a new separate denomination.

    There was also the counter-reformation movement as well. Even as a non-Catholic, I comment that there have been indeed movements within Catholicism to reform it in some measure; more recently, to put to end those things which you mentioned.

    ====

    I will say even as one who believes in God and Christ; there is hope, especially in the concept of a resurrection; obviously there in most religions that believe in religion, including mine, there isn't really hope for those who don't believe.

    I personally don't see any hope in reincarnation, and also hope is not in religion more generally (since I am using a broad category of religion, whose definition resembles that more so of "worldviews").
    dw ignore the cuck, he just tries to make his version of "Islam" better when its all the same shit

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simorgh View Post
    Catholicism hasn't faced any reformation in the many centuries?
    What about the 21 Catholic Ecumenical Councils they've had?

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simorgh View Post
    And yes there have been small negligible changes but not to a large extent to consider it a reformation. The only Catholic reformation was Protestantism which later on became a sect of its own independent of Catholicism. The Reformation movement ended being really violent cause and claimed the lives of 5-15 million Europeans.
    Why are you comparing reform of a religion to reform of a denomination?

    What would you have liked to see Catholicism change?

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simorgh View Post
    1.Where did I do that in this thread? A religion like that of Christianity and Islam is quite vast and there are lot of big differences amongst the sects let alone the similarities. Yes I agree its not good to compare sects with whole other entire religion, but what can you do when we have people like Orwell and others are doing this in their many posts? They don't see their underlying hypocrisy, when I see them do this I catch them and ask the hard questions.
    May have misread you, but this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Simorgh
    Funny how you argue for other religions to reform in your many posts, whereas Catholicism hasn't faced any reformation in the many centuries?
    sounds like we're comparing reform of Catholicism to reforms of religions, when Christianity has reformed. Not that I necessarily disagree with you or want to start a shitfight, it just seems like you may be undermining yourself.

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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simorgh View Post
    And yes there have been small negligible changes but not to a large extent to consider it a reformation. The only Catholic reformation was Protestantism which later on became a sect of its own independent of Catholicism. The Reformation movement ended being really violent cause and claimed the lives of 5-15 million Europeans.
    yes I think most people agree that every religion has it violent strains; even within Protestanism; I was more so addressing your assumption.

    I personally think that most religions have undergone "reform"; and by reform it means a return to its original teachings. Now for some religions, as some have argued on this forum before, even myself; that is not what is needed, because the original teachings are not considered "desirable" (then again mainstream Christianity, isn't exactly desirable in the average secular person's mind; just look at the various lobby groups, FB groups/chats).

    In some cases Christians by their very own teachings implies that internal (and external) "reform" of both practice and individual conduct (Christians call this latter thing sanctification, if you want a technical term); the latter being an outworking of genuine faith and belief in God, the former being applied to a larger group of believers for instance. And other religions may have similar ideas on this idea.

    I will comment that the biggest issues have happened more so due to politics and religion getting mixed; not saying that religious people shouldn't be involved in politics; or that religion doesn't have a place in public, it certainly does; but it becomes a bit concerning, if the politician says, we are doing this in the name of God; and then when you examine their actions; you ask the question, what God do they really believe in; it does a massive disservice; hence why I would argue that the way that some "Christian parties" approach certain issues, really don't make a good name for the beliefs, and the God they hold to.

    I know many Christians who are as vocal on this, even amongst conservative folks (I am not how conservative I really am though by whose standards I guess?)

    The same applies for Islam, in "Islamic countries", where sharia is the law of the land.

    Back to the topic, does God provide hope? Yes, but it really depends on what God; if it is a puny small rain fertility god, then I would say no; but if it is all-powerful God that hates your guts, I would also say no. So you can only really find hope in God, if he is powerful (able to do things), and loving (somewhat willing to do good things, although the definition is more complex than that). The question that remains, if God is able to do things and willing to do good things, why doesn't he end suffering? There are religions that provide different answers to that, but one of the reasons I am at the position, I am at, is because of its definite answer in providing hope in answering that question.

    Is it possibly naive? Maybe? Will I really know? Is a emotional/spiritual crutch? What assumption would one suggest if they made that objection?
    Last edited by dan964; 25 Jun 2016 at 11:09 PM.
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    Re: Is there hope without a God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simorgh View Post
    1.Where did I do that in this thread? A religion like that of Christianity and Islam is quite vast and there are lot of big differences amongst the sects let alone the similarities. Yes I agree its not good to compare sects with whole other entire religion, but what can you do when we have people like Orwell and others are doing this in their many posts? They don't see their underlying hypocrisy, when I see them do this I catch them and ask the hard questions.

    2. I don't hold any view or opinion in this regard.
    it may be vast, indeed. Catholicism I will say, even then has reformed; maybe not the reform, people like you are looking for; but there is always a need for reform. I personally disagree with Orwell, that Islam needs reform, but that will really come down to what original/pure Islam is; since this is not something that I have seen in this thread agreed on, I won't make any further comment on that matter.

    I personally agree that within Catholicism, there is need for change in certain matters.

    I will comment that Protestanism is now a very broader banner though, it covers apparently everything from whatever Joel Osteen teaches to Westboro; it is a wide spectrum; I think it personally shows that human efforts to reform, are pretty dismal. I think one has to only conclude, that religious people aren't much better than the non-religious, in terms of that matter.

    Just to veer a bit closer to topic, since we have deviated (sorry for that).
    The question of the thread really comes down to hope, and I think that is one way, to distinguish between the religious and the non-religious (although it isn't the only)
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