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  1. #26
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolmias View Post
    pauline hanson is a fking right wing cow that's the jk
    What does that make Bill Shorterm and his colleagues? Left wing cows?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolmias View Post
    go back to ur basement alt right troll

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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Thatcher View Post
    Are you joking? Gough was an absolute disaster, our fabled Mr. 17% inflation. I think Hawkey was probably the best. Keating was an exceptional Treasurer but a very poor PM IMO, too much acquiescence to the new left there.
    I should've specified - I like what Gough tried to do, but admittedly, he executed it pretty poorly. Additionally, any chance for a pun - I seize.


    lol @ the guy claiming all Libs are bankers.
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Thatcher View Post
    Are you joking? Gough was an absolute disaster, our fabled Mr. 17% inflation. I think Hawkey was probably the best. Keating was an exceptional Treasurer but a very poor PM IMO, too much acquiescence to the new left there.



    You do know that the ALP are just as cosy with big banks and old money as the Libs? Or haven't you heard about Shorten's association with the high society of Melbourne? If the issue is big business using big government to create an unfair advantage over the rest of us (cronyism at its worst, to be sure), then creating more government is just going to lead to the same outcome.

    Oh and you do know most of us Liberals don't actually come from that sort of a background; that's all media spin at its worst. I can tell you honestly that most of us come from pretty ordinary, middle-class backgrounds.
    Silly how there's a dichotomy in the right's worldview of Lib vs Labour when it isn't really the case. Pointing out Shorten's inadequacies (which most certainly exist) doesn't forgive the failings on the right and doesn't make anyone who criticises the latter a hypocrite.

    I know tons of young libs and almost all are upper class but tbh that doesn't bother me, identity politics is tiring. My grievances lie with the fact that they don't care about young people at all, climate change, housing affordability, so on are all issues where we as young people are being shafted.

    Also lol I never claimed all libs are bankers I gave them as an example of a constituency that benefits from the lnp and therefore should support em
    Last edited by Eudemonic; 13 Feb 2017 at 7:03 PM.

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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Wow, whatever impressions of the Young Libs you have must come from a place that's totally unknown to me. My branch is full of young people trying to make a change and that's really what we concern ourselves with.
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolmias View Post
    pauline hanson is a fking right wing cow that's the jk
    cry more faqit
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  6. #31
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
    Wow, whatever impressions of the Young Libs you have must come from a place that's totally unknown to me. My branch is full of young people trying to make a change and that's really what we concern ourselves with.
    Why the hell would the Young Libs "try to make a change"?

    They're conservatives ffs
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    "A little more money, a little more religion, a lot less soul"
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Eudemonic View Post
    Silly how there's a dichotomy in the right's worldview of Lib vs Labour when it isn't really the case. Pointing out Shorten's inadequacies (which most certainly exist) doesn't forgive the failings on the right and doesn't make anyone who criticises the latter a hypocrite.

    I know tons of young libs and almost all are upper class but tbh that doesn't bother me, identity politics is tiring. My grievances lie with the fact that they don't care about young people at all, climate change, housing affordability, so on are all issues where we as young people are being shafted.

    Also lol I never claimed all libs are bankers I gave them as an example of a constituency that benefits from the lnp and therefore should support em
    You criticise the dichotomy of the traditional Libs vs Labor standard and then go on to typecast my party viewpoint as that of the whole right; I'd call that hypocritical. And I do call criticising the Libs while giving the ALP a free pass as hypocrisy by the way, since invariably Labor always gets away with little scrutiny on their ties to money and wealth. All of that is directed towards the Coalition, not just some of the time, but a great deal of the time. You criticised my use of the two-party dichotomy so I'll expand the spectrum even further; those even more left, such as the Greens, are also more than happy to give their preferences to Labor too, again proving that many on the Left either ignore or actively abet those with rich connections.

    Sounds very vague to me. Unless you are apart of the Young Liberals, I doubt you could attest to this with any sort of legitimacy. I actually know Young Liberals, not as left-wing folklore but as flesh and blood; I can tell you that your preconceived notions of who we are and what we do are certainly not true. Do not equate principle with indifference. Simply because we believe that there is a certain way of doing things; that you shouldn't interfere in a free marketplace; that people should be able to keep more of what they earn; that our problems as (young) people are no more serious than those that afflict the old and everyone in between - doesn't mean we don't care. It's easy as hell to be generous with other people's money; it's easy as hell to be perpetually active; but it's much harder to do what is sometimes required - to say NO.

    Bankers benefit much more under a left-wing system or mixed economy, where competition is minimal and choice is diluted. They can set their prices without fear of consumers choosing elsewhere or use their significance in the economy to cosy up to the government, whose size and power simply beget corruption. A truly Capitalist system, one built much more or wholly upon voluntarily exchange is the real threat to the big banks, not stern left-wing rhetoric. And that is why when there's a choice between a bigger government and smaller government, the big banks and corporations will inevitably side with the former; side with people like Barack Obama over Ron Paul.
    Last edited by Son of Thatcher; 13 Feb 2017 at 10:04 PM.
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolmias View Post
    Why the hell would the Young Libs "try to make a change"?

    They're conservatives ffs
    Not necessarily. You'd be amazed at how 'moderate' the moderates actually *are* in the party; they're practically Fraserist.
    Last edited by Son of Thatcher; 13 Feb 2017 at 9:30 PM.
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Thatcher View Post
    Not necessarily. You'd be amazed at how 'moderate' the moderates *are* in the party; they're practically Fraserist.
    Interesting.........
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Labour's a corrupt and retrospective sack of shit. Done.
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    I'm happy to criticise Shorten too, there's no hypocrisy here. Also I don't see where I assume your views, other than in your capacity as a member of the the Liberal party.

    To your last paragraph, this isn't really true in principle but might be if your definition of left-wing is Clintonite neoliberals. Still I'd say the deregulation of the finance sector, abolishment of the fiduciary rule and other measures which ease the ability to prey on vulnerable people tip the balance in the favour of the Right.

    I would agree that being Conservative doesn't mean maintaining the status quo, it does have ideology (traditional values, free market)

    EDIT: Orwell what could 'retrospective" possibly even mean in this context?
    Last edited by Eudemonic; 13 Feb 2017 at 10:24 PM.

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    Re: Political Party Membership

    I simply mean that the particular policies, conventions and legalities in place that have proven to be effective (or at least far more effective than those born from Labour leftist sentiment) are being undermined by our political correctness. i.e. Refugees.
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    I mean Labour has adopted the coalition policy on Asylum Seekers so by your view that would be an example of Labour modifying its views by evidence and public sentiment.

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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Eudemonic View Post
    Silly how there's a dichotomy in the right's worldview of Lib vs Labour when it isn't really the case. Pointing out Shorten's inadequacies (which most certainly exist) doesn't forgive the failings on the right and doesn't make anyone who criticises the latter a hypocrite.

    I know tons of young libs and almost all are upper class but tbh that doesn't bother me, identity politics is tiring. My grievances lie with the fact that they don't care about young people at all, climate change, housing affordability, so on are all issues where we as young people are being shafted.

    Also lol I never claimed all libs are bankers I gave them as an example of a constituency that benefits from the lnp and therefore should support em
    Why would you care about climate change when it doesn't exist?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolmias View Post
    go back to ur basement alt right troll

  16. #41
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by Eudemonic View Post
    I'm happy to criticise Shorten too, there's no hypocrisy here. Also I don't see where I assume your views, other than in your capacity as a member of the the Liberal party.

    To your last paragraph, this isn't really true in principle but might be if your definition of left-wing is Clintonite neoliberals. Still I'd say the deregulation of the finance sector, abolishment of the fiduciary rule and other measures which ease the ability to prey on vulnerable people tip the balance in the favour of the Right.

    I would agree that being Conservative doesn't mean maintaining the status quo, it does have ideology (traditional values, free market)
    Don't get me wrong. I didn't mean to imply that you are hypocritical. Rather, I was suggesting that despite left-wing rhetoric, many on the Left are hypocritical as evidenced by their actions, not necessarily my assumptions.

    Well just saying that it isn't true doesn't make it so. The fact of the matter is wherever you have a concentration of power, whether it be in government or labour, it just breeds corruption and avarice. If you equate a free market with 'tipping the balance in favour of the Right' then you are correct. However, a truly free market is not what we've been seeing; all we have seen is this mixed-up cronyist system. In a free market, the onus is on the individual to make the right decisions, with businesses penalised by their customers (or lack thereof) for potentially predatory practices. Anything more just advantages the very systems you're trying to contain by making it more difficult for smaller firms, which often lack access to the resources required to navigate through the smokescreen of legislation and regulation. Ultimately, this lack of competition helps big business.
    Last edited by Son of Thatcher; 13 Feb 2017 at 11:11 PM.
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    lib/labs should be banned as political parties imo, like the communist party after the collapse of the soviet union was. they are dangerous political entities that mainly only operate to sustain or continue to inflate real estate values (australia is effectively a propertyocracy at this point) and must be destroyed.

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    Re: Political Party Membership

    I should probably rename this thread to BoS Political Debates xD
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmo 2 View Post
    lib/labs should be banned as political parties imo, like the communist party after the collapse of the soviet union was. they are dangerous political entities that mainly only operate to sustain or continue to inflate real estate values (australia is effectively a propertyocracy at this point) and must be destroyed.
    Oh please, this isn't the first time we've this kind of issue and it certainly won't be the last. Don't you know about the 17% interest rates under Hawke and Keating? They practically eviscerated the first home-buying market.

    I get young people's gripe with high property prices but let's look at it from a different perspective. Sure, it makes purchasing your first home incredibly difficult, but that's more of a problem for Millennials and the Z's; everyone else who owns property, our parents, investors and others, are also seeing the value of their property skyrocket to their great financial benefit.

    I won't deny Asian investment bumps up prices, but IMHO the real issue is the huge amount of demand and comparatively little supply. A lot of that is due to lethargic councils and ridiculously gratuitous regulations which add time and cost to the process of developing land.
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  20. #45
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    rofl we are living in the most severe housing bubble this country has ever seen, and very probably the worst housing/asset valuation bubble the world has ever seen. the total dwelling valuation stock to GDP ratio has risen from an (already very high) 200% in the late 1990s when the valuation bubble started inflation to around 360% today. australian household debt (mostly bound up in home repayment debt) is the highest in the world, and median property price to local income ratios are extraordinarily skewed, especially in melbourne and sydney (respectively around 10x and 12x). outside of hong kong, sydney is now the most expensive city in the world. this is not justifiable given its relatively unimportant position within the global economy.



    the bubble kicked off some time in the late 1990s when john howard cut the capital gains tax rate on residential property. it has since skyrocketed lockstep with the massive increases in immigration and dodgy foreign purchases that have occurred over the past 15 years.

    the 17% interest rate point is not useful for establishing any point about relative housing unaffordability because it is a static measure and only takes into account interest rates at the time the measure was made; it does not clarify on housing affordability over the full life of the mortgage (nor does it take into account higher required deposits - another substantial hurdle to affordability). while interest rates have substantially declined, principal payments have skyrocketed;



    paradoxically the low interest rate is a contributing cause of the bubble, as it interminably juices demand and specufestor fervor.

    the lack of supply is probably a canard: there's plenty of supply, it just gets snapped up by speculators, foreign buyers and migrants. a genuine housing supply shortage would see corresponding rental price growth in conjunction with property price growth, but this is not the case. and anyway, if there is something to this idea it wouldn't matter; supply gets snapped up by specufestor maniacs, foreign buyers and immigrants. it doesnt matter how much gets freed up if it keeps getting pulled off the shelves faster than you can stock them.

    the final suggestion of yours, that somehow exorbitant and divorced-from-fundamentals housing prices is an economic good is just crazy. this kind of unrestrained speculation is not just bad because it impacts upon the young and the vulnerable to purchase property; it massively distorts the economy, diverts investment streams to an ultimately unproductive sector, raises fundamental input costs, drives away valuable economic activity, endangers our natural and built environment and renders us very susceptible to external economic shocks (seriously -- next time the global economy goes kaput we're cooked). all of the main parties, including the greens, are complicit in this nightmare.
    Last edited by cosmo 2; 15 Feb 2017 at 12:53 AM.
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    lowkey i'm an ipa shill
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    Re: Political Party Membership

    Proud member of the NSW Young Greens, NSW Greens and the Australian Greens. Labor and Libs can go fuck themselves with their bi-partisan regressive anti-environment, anti-refugee, anti-multicultural platforms, and One Nation.... don't even get me started. And whichever idiot thinks that Libs prime ministers have been more successful than Labor's is joking, who have you had in recent years? Abbott a fucktard right wing christian nutter, Turnbull a pro-coal, backflipping billionaire crony. Don't get me started on Howard, you'll pull out the old firearms argument that he was so successful. Congrats anyone could of done that, meanwhile keeping you distracted domestically, he started WW3 with Bush in Afghanistan and fucked over the whole of the middle east in combination with the US. THANK YOU LIBS FOR ALL YOUR GREAT PMs!
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