Che Guevera (1 Viewer)

loquasagacious

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smh said:
Icon or con?
December 28, 2004

CHE GUEVARA

FOR

Combining the roles of revolutionary thinker and man of action, Che provides a singular example of theory become practice. Despite the common observation that his image now simply adorns the T-shirts of wannabe urban radicals, we still have the historical figure - an influential guerilla commander and political theorist who forsook the comforts of high office for the uncertainties of permanent revolution.

Rather than quit after the Cuban campaign, Guevara persisted with his attempt to mount a war against imperialism on three continents. The standard argument presents him as a double victim - in life and in death - yet this reading either shelters in the haven of hindsight or implies support for Che's undoubtedly corrupt ideological enemies.

His modus operandi may not warrant emulation, but removed from the turmoil of combat, flawed thinking and the appropriation of his image, Guevara still embodies Zapata's epigram: "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees."

Tony Nesbitt

AGAINST

A young friend was recently asked, in a job interview at the ABC, who he most admired and he blurted out, to his own surprise (and subsequent regret): "Che Guevara."

This cult will not die. The lyrical movie The Motorcycle Diaries is but the latest episode in the packaging and exploiting of Ernesto 'Che' Guevara, a Stalinist murderer who betrayed the Cuban revolution that made his name.

It was Guevara who set up the firing squads that enforced his faction's rule in Cuba.

He founded the labour camps for dissidents. He provided the model for the Red Brigades in Italy and their imitators.

He was killed in Bolivia in 1967, leading a guerilla movement that didn't enlist a single peasant. Yet he inspired thousands of middle-class Latin Americans to organise insurgencies of their own. They all failed, and postponed democracy in Latin America for decades.

Guevara was an enemy of freedom who became its symbol. The cult endures thanks to the selective romanticism of the left, especially its extraordinary tolerance for repression in the name of 'the people'.

Paul Sheehan
So which side would you choose, was Che good bad or a great excuse to smoke pot?

Personally I'd choose something of a middle ground in that I believe that he conforms to neither his demonised or deified image. I tend to think he conforms more to his deified image however that is a product of my politics.
 

joujou_84

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i think hes pretty cool..........wasnt he fidel castros general...or something...my damn memory always fails me.....but anyone who stands up to the US and fights for his rights is pretty damn cool....
 

Comrade nathan

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Too impatiatent. He should of stayed at Cuba. He wanted to go to Bolivia early but Fidel told him to go to Africa first. He then went to Bolivia which was foolish.

Over all he was a good Marxist-Leninist, espically when he stood up agaisnt USSR revisionism of Kruschev era, and for never letting up on yankee imperialism.

Also the people he excuted where criminals who were a hindrance to the revolution.
 

loquasagacious

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Well so far thats one excuse to smoke pot and one deity.

Comrade nathan there appears to be little give in your appraisal, in that you dismiss those he executed as a hinderance and appear to condem Krushchev's reforms.

On the other hand you are objective enough in your appraisal to realise that he had flaws (his impatience) and to evaluate him as overall a good marxist-lennist.

It is impossible for either you or I to know whether the executions he ordered were justified, in general however I assume that mass execution of people is wrong.

It is interesting the number of lables he is given, Marxist-lennist by you, Marxist-Stalinist by The Motorcycle Diaries (So i'm told) and I've also read of the influence that Mao's succesful agricultural revolution had on him in that his tactics were much more like Mao's than Lenin's.

As an aside on your condemnation of Krushchev's reforms I have a couple of things to say:
Firstly: Kruschev had very little choice the arms race had fucked Russia
Secondly: It is Krushchev not Reagan who is to be commended for ending the cold war
Thirdly: What is your objection to the reforms? They undermined soviet principles? Weakened Russia? Lost the Cold War? Personally I believe the reforms were integral to the collapse of the USSR however the freedoms granted are very important.

I digress further, I think what has happened to Russia and her people is a tragedy on a massive scale and has reduced Russia to almost the sorry state it was in pre-revolution - or worse depending how you look at it. However I do believe that Krushchev did the best thing he could by bailing out of the cold-war before it really was too late. Had it happened 40 odd years earlier the world would today be a very different one.

By the same token had the US not been so belligerant and the USSR not prone to empire building in Eastern Europe then the world would be a better place today.

The fate of Cuba is similarily tragic in that starved of all trade she stagnates waiting for Castro to die. For so demonised is he by american propaganda machines that while he lives there can be no accord between Cuba and the USA.

I believe that Castro and Che were earnest in everyway - they fought bravely to liberate opressed peoples, together and accompanied by just a few others they toppled a corrupt regime and had not world atmosphere been what it was they could have been welcomed with open arms by the world. As it was they were turned away for smelling communist and driven to Russia as a result ultimately the world came to within minutes of destruction.
 

Comrade nathan

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Well my main reason for applauding Che's condemning of Kruschev's reforms is that it was the first steps towards the restoration of capitalism in Russia. The giving of enterprise in buisness more control of supply of raw materials lead to price setting at the enterprise level lead to market prices. Kruschev solution to production reaching quota's was a capitalist solution, and also his secret speach of denouncing Stalin is very suspicous of him being revisionist.

Che condeming Kruschev's policies he was upholding Marxist-Leninism. Castro on the other hand had a country to run and could not discriminate agaisnt the USSR which was going to rebuild his own country, but maybe it would of be better to ask for aid from China.

Anyway this is meant to be about Che not USSR socialist problems.

One word: Over-rated.
In way yes, his passion for revolution of explioted is what he is remembered for, but it was what lead him to his death in Bolivia.
 

mr EaZy

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when it comes to world history/politics, s.America is probably my weakest link.

where did u guys get all this stuff on this guy? i find people living in the bush knowing a lot more on this bloke than me!

o well, i'll just read what u guys think
 

loquasagacious

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Unfortunately living in the cultural sticks as I do I havn't and am unlikley to - though if I do I will keep you posted.
 

Purp|e

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Hmmm i dont know enough about this whole thing to comment. But what i will say is ... im fucking sick of seeing ppl walking around with 'che' t-shirts thinking how damn cool they are. THEY ARE NOT COOL, they are douche bags. :eek:
 

loquasagacious

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You must admit that theres a certain irnoy in that coming from someone with bob marley in their avatar.....
 

Purp|e

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hmmm i see where ur going ... but eh. I love Bob Marley for his music, not his social/political views. (although i do agree with most of them) ... newho, the ppl i was talking about are ppl who have no connection to che guevera or his cause, yet feel as though it is 'cool' to make it seem like they do. As far as i know, wouldnt his face being used as a marketing tool be completely against his principles?
 

azzie

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there are so many t-shirts and bags with his face on it and you ask someone who is wearing it if they know who he is, and most of them just reply "uhhm.... no"
 

tattoodguy

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I dont know that much about the guy or the topic but it sort of reminds me of osama bin laden to some degreee, leaving a life of luxury or comfort to fight for something you believe in.

People who sacrifice the comforts of normal life to fight for other people, show humanity. I believe Osama is a good guy.

He left a fortune to fight for his people - thats selflesss and should be respected.

Most people never find anything more important than their own life and happiness, men who are strong enuff to believe in things greater than themselves i cant help but admire.

For one man to make a significant difference in the world is extremely difficult, and any man who makes that his ambition we should all respect.

Revolution and all that is good, it encourages us to challenge the present and gives us more alternatives for the future.


Anyone else here respect Osama Bin Laden?
 

Purp|e

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tattoodguy said:
I dont know that much about the guy or the topic but it sort of reminds me of osama bin laden to some degreee, leaving a life of luxury or comfort to fight for something you believe in.

People who sacrifice the comforts of normal life to fight for other people, show humanity. I believe Osama is a good guy.

He left a fortune to fight for his people - thats selflesss and should be respected.

Most people never find anything more important than their own life and happiness, men who are strong enuff to believe in things greater than themselves i cant help but admire.

For one man to make a significant difference in the world is extremely difficult, and any man who makes that his ambition we should all respect.

Revolution and all that is good, it encourages us to challenge the present and gives us more alternatives for the future.


Anyone else here respect Osama Bin Laden?
Hmmm well u must be getting a different side of the story to me... i have no fucking respect at all for that man. He is a coward. And whats this about him giving up a fortune to fight for his people ??? Maybe if he gave a fuck about his people he'd share his 'fortune' with them instead of using it to fund terrorist attacks.
 
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absolution*

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tattoodguy said:
Anyone else here respect Osama Bin Laden?
I dont respect him, but i find his actions by no means as repulsive as the Bush administration.
 

loquasagacious

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I respect him as tattood guy descirbes because he abandoned his wealth to fighth for his people.

I do not neccaserily support his goals for his people or his methods of achieving them.
 

chubbaraff

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Ive seen motorcycle diaries and the only glorification of Che is the fact that he vists medical centres and gives a damn about universal health and education. I'm not sure what that columnist was agitated about because the film never got into "revolutionary tacticts or methods" but just showed a poor guy with asthma who gave a shat. The only political reference was him explaining to alberto that a non-violent revolution would not work and thats a fair point. The movie is one of the best ive seen in a while anyone who hasnt seen it should go because its put together so well (except for the subtitles).
 

Lorie

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absolution* said:
I dont respect him, but i find his actions by no means as repulsive as the Bush administration.

it's a bit of a........... fucked from the left fucked from the right isn't it.
 

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