2006 poets!

[666_blessings]

You can hide this advertisement by registering.

Originally Posted by LottoX

I have a very clear idea for the last one of those poems, however the two that I am struggling with are really just there to build up to the overall meaning of the ending, so therefore, require some meticulous planning.

Meticulous planning is always good. ^^. If you need any help with anything or just someone to bounce ideas off, send me an email or find me on msn (i'm online from abt 7 to 12 most nights). My email should be in my profile.

[shimmy&shine]

Originally Posted by emily_lestrange

I would be happy to comment on your poetry and vice versa.. if you would like.

thanks emily.
Do you want to send each other a few poems?

Mine explores the life, works, cycles, ambiguities, pivotal moments, relationships etc of Plath.
I'm writing a suite of poems, in chronological order that reflects many facets of her life, that accumulates to an elegy at the end.

Not that my ideas and poems are that original or brilliant, but I'm hesitant to say much more.

I think motifs, and connectiveness that strings the poems (in a suite) together, are really important for good marks. I'm using the moon, roses, medusa, mother / Daddy, suicide, Hughes, journal entries, and so on.

Emily, your concepts of famlies, and different types of families sounds great. Wow, things like incest would be really challenging, but then again, I have to write about suicide, and try to write Plath with her multi-personality self. Argh, but when we finish it, it's a good feeling!

[shimmy&shine]

Originally Posted by LottoX

I have a very clear idea for the last one of those poems, however the two that I am struggling with are really just there to build up to the overall meaning of the ending, so therefore, require some meticulous planning.

Go Lottox! you can do it! If the last two poems are there to reinforce, and build up to the overall meaning, they are quite critical pieces. I mean, if all your poems, have been written to reflect a meaning, and the last two poem's jobs are to convey the overall thing of the ending, then you don't want to be lazy with them.

Still a lot of time left! Keep planning, and don't forget to keep writing.

yeah, the last poems of a collection or a suite have to be killers. because they are the ones that gives the final impact on the marker.

My suite of poems are ending with a line from Plath's last poem, which i think is quite effective.

"The moon has nothing to be sad about" Edge, Sylvia Plath

But, that line, lingering by itself in no proper context (like what I've just done) looks pathetic. lol. Let's just say, the Moon, is very very very imporant in my poems.

[shimmy&shine]

Reading the marking guidelines are really imporant.

For all people writing in free verse, be really careful, and know exactly what you are doing, lilke full control of rhythm, sounds, and techniques. Do they all cohere? Do they all enhance the poem's intended meaning?

Because, it was one of points in the 'weakness' of some major works. Like, you don't want the marker to think that you've employed that form of poetry, because it's, let's say, the easiest. And i've read that it's actually one of the hardest forms of poetry to write, because the supposed liberty that it gives the writer, is actually where the downfall for a lot of 'poets' is.

But with that said, i'm sure that all the poets here have full control of what they are doing.

Oh, and on another point, be careful with imagery. It's all about coherence (unless you want to portray something erratic). Why did you use it? Is it too abstract? Some critiques absolutely HATE abstract and too obscure poetry.

[shimmy&shine]

Oh, bad bad bad...
I've just been reading some old poems that i wrote ages ago. haha, they are so terrible that i just cringe. I deny ownership of them!!
I'll share them with you all, I've cut out the worst bits, and it just so happens that the poem shrunk to a few lines. lol.

how about this:

hand
a haunted house
of irresolute
candlelight
flickering uncertainty
and occupied

and this:

her core quavered
and held a
delicately flavored
resonance
accompanied by a
pacified tear
a pearl
that escaped
fell
down
and r o l l e d.


Not too bad, but bad enough to qualify for 'bad poetry'. Well that was what one of my ee2 teachers thought so when i showed her. i hope the 'bad poetry' hasn't rubbed off on you.
Tip: try to avoid all 'pearl' imagery, because no matter how hard you try to be clever with this imagery, it is still likely to come off as cliche. so be careful with that one. (from a senior ee2 hsc poetry marker)

Please share (what we should all avoid..)

[666_blessings]

Originally Posted by shimmy&shine

Please share (what we should all avoid..)

Things to avoid: teen angst, pearl imagery, 'heart', abstractions like 'love', rose imagery (or any flower for that matter), the whole 'you're a dream come true' cliche, etc. etc.

There's a lot of stuff to avoid but you'll have to use a few of them because sometimes there's just no better way to get your point across. It only becomes an issue when your major work is packed with as much cliched stuff as a macca's burger is packed with fat (okay, maybe half as much as the fat content of a macca's burger).

[shimmy&shine]

hey! I HAVE to use rose imagery! It is a crucial part of my 'imagery & symbolism' techniques.
Anyway, Plath calls her two children "two roses" (and she won a Pultizer Prize for that collection).
Ted Hughes as well. His beautiful poem 'Red' (be prepared for an overdose of roses!)

...
Leaned over it, dripping roses,
Weeping roses, and more roses
...

I guess it's all about 'how' you do it, what meaning you are trying to convey, and if it 'fits' in well. I have two 5 lined poems called 'Roses I' & 'Roses II', thank you very much.

[bogen]

i write poetry and short storys, and theres no way in hell im crt C crt Ving them hear it would take to long, so i suggest you go to KMC and look up bogen.
other than that, live and let live.

[shimmy&shine]

Originally Posted by LottoX

My teen angst is like a pearl,
beating like a heart when
in love.
Like a red rose to say
"You're a dream come true"

How's that?

Brilliant! That's is sure to win a publishing deal. The well-controlled syntax, enjambment, ultilising all the free verse techniques with awareness, the accumulation of imagery that aims to intensify, and of course the genius personification of the 'red rose' brings painful clarity!
Well done! 10/10

[phatchance]

Now it is my turn;

Short dramatically paused statement!
followedsomewhatincoherentlyby -
rushed - yet -stut-t-tered statement;
alittle bit of alliteration builds the awesome base for blatant;
stealing of other peoples concepts

AND YET! hark, perhaps if I entwine my words;
with lengthy prose and maybe some,
soft sifted sleepy first;
followed by second rhyme scheme once;

or twice. I will have the formula -
THE FORMULA? the formula!
for repetition, downright despicable;
somewhat manic, always predictable;

boring, based on someone elses work;
extension II.

What do you guys think?

[phatchance]

P.S. If I read one more prose filled overly dramatic poem I am going to do something vindictive, like satirise a generation of angsty teens extension II projects.

I hate that people attempt to mimic the creative work of generations before them, when for the most part, they don't even understand why those people wrote in that form. I class myself as a poet/lyricist, because I have spent years working at it and developing an individual style and understanding of the artform, why is it that people think 'poetry' consists of bullshit exclamations, pauses and predictable poetic techniques? Not just the people who make fun of poetry, but the people who make the appauling poetry those individuals make fun of.

Pretty much I just hate everyone, continue on.

[666_blessings]

As long as you understand what it is you're imitating I don't see any problem with emulation. Think of it as continuing on the legacy of poets who knew how to write... unlike some of today's stuff.

[Katie :)]

hmm I wonder if my poetry will be less strong because it is in free verse. see I originally set out to write 'prose poetry' in the style of steven herrick, though not as teenish and more delecately strung. reading the comments so far in this forum aren't very assuring since I am writing it as one continuous story (linking each poem together by using the last line or few words as the title for the poem.) and my style seems to be very different too.

my piece is about growing up, imaginary friends, isolation and the relationship between two sisters. It's written from the perspective of "Jamilla" as she is growing, and so her writing is correspondingly simple, though poignant and almost surreal. I've also used a narrator in the same way as Tim winton does in Cloudstreet and minimum of two, sort of relational. it's sort of pitched at kids, though it reflects sentiments that everyone can relate to. I guess that's another difference too (seeing as everyone else here has probably pitched their pieces at an older audience??)

anyway I've been told that my writing is too poetic to be labelled as "prose poetry", but it isn't like the generic poetry I've read so far (I took the advice of "shimmy and shine" and read widely. Though I very much enjoyed how poets such as Plath, Auden, Stevenson, Stevie smith etc. write, I don't want my poems to be so constrained (for want of a better word).


The strength (I feel) in my writing is that it takes the reader on a journey from start to finish and also lies in it's simplistic and unassuming manner... it doesn't require the reader to reread it to search for hidden depths - since they are sort of evoked or alluded to using minimal words.

I am wondering, is there some other name for this type of poetry?? or perhaps, if I state in my reflection statement that I have written in this way for effect, will it still pull it down when it is marked against their criteria?

cheers

Katie

[shimmy&shine]

haha, Phatchance, you're a very pessimistic person. I think a lot of 'poets' just don't see the distinction between, i guess, 'real' poetry, and 'bad' poetry. I believe it takes a lot of preserverance to fully appreciate and understand the plethora of elements that bind together to form a poem. The nature of a poem is very ambiguous itself. What Wordsworth believes, thinking it comes from a 'tranquil state of mind', is in stark contrast to Emily Dickinson, saying something along the lines of 'you know when you're reading poetry, when you're head feels chopped off' (i think!).

People view poetry, write poetry, read poetry, understand poetry, understand the artistic form of poetry, in myriad ways, there is no one difinitive answer.

Originally Posted by phatchance

What do you guys think?

Really- i don't like it. Jarring in several places, etc,... but then again, i think the techniques were intentional: all to stir negative, even hostile feelings, hey?

Maybe some poetry doesn't seem right to you because, you're just not on the right 'level' with the poet? Like Walt Whitman's 'Song of Myself', i didn't really like it, just because i found it egotistical and self-centered, and that notion is too distracting for me to enjoy it.

There are plenty of reasons why poems don't 'work' for different people, but let's get one thing straight. I highly doubt any of us extension twoers are at any stage of their writing 'careers' to start reprimanding people, and harshly criticising people.

i think the true essence of poetry is fragile.

Originally Posted by phatchance

Pretty much I just hate everyone, continue on.

lol, you must have a LOT of friends!
I now understand the driving mechanisms of your poetic mind and works.
hatred. How inspirational for you!

[shimmy&shine]

Originally Posted by Katie :)

if I state in my reflection statement that I have written in this way for effect, will it still pull it down when it is marked against their criteria?

The Reflection Statement is very very important, and the 'ability' for it to give you extra marks should not be ever underestimated.

Just one warning: do not ever write anything in your reflection statement, about how you did this and this in your poem to convey such and such, when really what you are saying is bordering on fabrication. Avoid hyping up a piece. The markers are all aware of this, so don't think you can ever get away with it. Actually, that said, no one should be even thinking of pretending and writing in their RS a poem does a certain thing.

I bet all your poems are strong enough to hold their own ground. They should be anyway. My teacher keeps reminding me not to think that i can rely on my RS to 100% convey my ideas.

Anyway, back to your question (my mind always goes off in tangents!) You should be writing anyway, why you considered a certain form of poetry for your piece, and what effect in gave, and how you did it. With that all said, and a major work that is brilliant, you have nothing to worry about.

If your prose poetry conveys that, you as the writer, successfully utilised all the conventions of that form, with full awareness, and pulled it off as a substantial piece, then your looking at great marks.

I guess the trouble is, your not fully sure what poetry your exactly writing in. And your 'prose poetry' being too poetic, where is that feedback coming from? Asking your ee2 teacher is the safest thing. I suggest you do a little bit of research on 'prose poetry', and compare it to whatyou've done.

You mentioned Herrick as an influence, and if your style corresponds to his, i think you're fine. Mention him in your Rs, and how his poetry has assisted in shaping your poetry.

The idea of writing poetry, that conveys and levels with the 'maturity' of your protagonist, at different stages, is an aspect that should work in your favor as it strings your pieces together. There is more i can say on this topic, but i have to dig up my notes, but be assured that is a really good aspect, much like the poetry major work 'Storm in a Teacup'.

Good luck.