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Thread: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

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    Disillusioned BandSixFix's Avatar
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    Post Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Anyone here interested in creating a small group where we could bounce ideas and the like? I'm doing Germany for my National Study and with the half yearlies coming up it would be nice if anyone was interested in helping each other out with syllabus points and coming with with arguments etc. I know you can do it by yourself, but I personally find it easier to learn in a discussion type environment and since most of our marks come from essays it'd be good. BUT yeah HMU!

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    Cole World Nailgun's Avatar
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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    So like a sort of debate thread? Sure, that sounds fun lol, although idk how many other 16ers we have on here who would wanna participate, but could motivate me to write notes faster.
    How do we start off?
    Veni, Vidi, Vici

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nailgun View Post
    So like a sort of debate thread? Sure, that sounds fun lol, although idk how many other 16ers we have on here who would wanna participate, but could motivate me to write notes faster.
    How do we start off?
    Yeah pretty much that. Hmm hopefully some 16ers join or anyone else really!
    Hmm... For now we could start with the Collapse of the Weimar Republic 1929-1933 - although for the purpose for this discussion we could extend it to 1919 - 1933 just for arguments sake! So what factor(s) do you think led to their collapse?

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Obviously the key factor to look at here is that the German people did not want democracy. They had lived in a military-focused authoritarian nation, and it had worked for them up until WWI. Even then, they thought they were winning the war. What good is a few civil liberties if the country has gone to shit? Not to mention hyper-inflation as a result of the excessive war reparations Germany was required to pay and of course the Great Depression; and this is all being blamed on the democracy mind you, it's of little surprise it collapsed as it did.
    Veni, Vidi, Vici

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nailgun View Post
    Obviously the key factor to look at here is that the German people did not want democracy. They had lived in a military-focused authoritarian nation, and it had worked for them up until WWI. Even then, they thought they were winning the war. What good is a few civil liberties if the country has gone to shit? Not to mention hyper-inflation as a result of the excessive war reparations Germany was required to pay and of course the Great Depression; and this is all being blamed on the democracy mind you, it's of little surprise it collapsed as it did.
    Yeah that's true. I think since Germany was forced to live in a democratic state with NO prior knowledge was also very concerning. I mean, you see as close to the end of their collapse Article 48 was used more than ever - how can you live in a democratic state when you rule by decree? It was also the very article that got Hitler into power... Hmm yeah, the social welfare at that time brought a lot of resentment from the right-wing who did not believe in that sort of system and as a result added more pressure from the right towards the Republic. Yeah The Great Depression played a BIG part - Gustav Stresemann's policies were leading Germany into a hole - I mean his whole system to alleviate Germany's economic situation was a system based on foreign investment and loans (Dawes and Young plans). It was no doubt they economy collapsed and especially when Burning conducted a deflationary policy in the early 1930's that basically lost hope for the Republic. It was a new chancellor every morning mind you - a new chancellor until Hitler was appointed.

    What role do you think the conservative elites played in the collapse?

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    Cole World Nailgun's Avatar
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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Ok, gimme a little bit, I'm getting some stuff together lol.
    I think this works better if one of use takes a devils advocate approach. like agreeing with each other doesn't really help refine arguments, while legit arguing forces us to both think about non-conventional and conventional approaches, and find holes in both. It's like the thesis/anti-thesis thing where you can take someone else's argument, show that it's wrong, and hence strengthen you're own.
    Veni, Vidi, Vici

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nailgun View Post
    Ok, gimme a little bit, I'm getting some stuff together lol.
    I think this works better if one of use takes a devils advocate approach. like agreeing with each other doesn't really help refine arguments, while legit arguing forces us to both think about non-conventional and conventional approaches, and find holes in both. It's like the thesis/anti-thesis thing where you can take someone else's argument, show that it's wrong, and hence strengthen you're own.
    Oh yeah that sounds like a better approach

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Hitler had the same goals as most other statesmen of the period, recognition of victory in the east, release of Germany from the shackles of Versailles, and the confirmation of Germany as the foremost power of mitteleuropa. However, his methods were different.

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Quote Originally Posted by /
    Gustav Stresemann's policies were leading Germany into a hole - I mean his whole system to alleviate Germany's economic situation was a system based on foreign investment and loans (Dawes and Young plans)
    This same policy worked in Japan following the Second War making it one of the most prosperous nations on Earth. Stresseman's policies were in no way leading germany into a "hole".

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    I think the collapse of the Republic was caused by a chain of events rather than just one factor (eg great depression, conservative elites and army which essentially undermined the government, underlying flaws in the constitution- article 48 ahem); that being said the fact that Germany had never had a democracy before did play a part in the collapse of the republic and events such as the wall st crash led to ppl wanting the nation to return to an authoritarian style govt just like it had with the Kaiser.

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkiglitzy_25 View Post
    I think the collapse of the Republic was caused by a chain of events rather than just one factor (eg great depression, conservative elites and army which essentially undermined the government, underlying flaws in the constitution- article 48 ahem); that being said the fact that Germany had never had a democracy before did play a part in the collapse of the republic and events such as the wall st crash led to ppl wanting the nation to return to an authoritarian style govt just like it had with the Kaiser.
    That's definitely true. Although you say the collapse was caused by a 'chain of events' - what do you think was the strongest factor in the collapse of the Weimar collapse?

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    Cole World Nailgun's Avatar
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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Quote Originally Posted by BandSixFix View Post
    That's definitely true. Although you say the collapse was caused by a 'chain of events' - what do you think was the strongest factor in the collapse of the Weimar collapse?
    Okay, I'm actually familiar with Germany now ahaha

    I think you have to point to the economic factor here. If Stressman's policies worked (WS crash/depression) and followed through, Germany would have had a stable economy (if no WS crash/depression). An unstable economy leads to an unstable government, and the converse is just as true. Hitler was the hail mary to a country falling into a hole who hoped he would be easily controlled, and if there had been a stable government it would never had been necessary/willing to put him into the chancellorship. The economic struggles were also blamed on 'democracy' leading to people thinking that the former authoritarian rule might be better - this is where Hitler's voting base came from. Hitler's rise to power basically spelled the end to Weimar.
    Veni, Vidi, Vici

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    Re: Bounce conceptual ideas and statements!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nailgun View Post
    Okay, I'm actually familiar with Germany now ahaha

    I think you have to point to the economic factor here. If Stressman's policies worked (WS crash/depression) and followed through, Germany would have had a stable economy (if no WS crash/depression). An unstable economy leads to an unstable government, and the converse is just as true. Hitler was the hail mary to a country falling into a hole who hoped he would be easily controlled, and if there had been a stable government it would never had been necessary/willing to put him into the chancellorship. The economic struggles were also blamed on 'democracy' leading to people thinking that the former authoritarian rule might be better - this is where Hitler's voting base came from. Hitler's rise to power basically spelled the end to Weimar.
    Explain his rise to power

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