Law & GPA

[BHHS]

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I'm a complete newbie here, but am going to be studying law next year, is it possible to maintain a high distinction average without killing myself in the process? How about a distinction average, and what is the average GPA for a hard working law student?

[sthcross.dude]

Well I have a distinction average and I dont work particularly hard. But then I go to UWS. As for HD average it would indeed be very hard to get a perfect 7.0 GPA, although if you mean >6.5 I'd say its definately achievable, its what I'm aiming for.

As for the average Law student's GPA thats a very interesting question. Hopefully Frigid et al will know.

[Frigid]

it's certainly not impossible (I cite David Hume - UNSW double uni medallist, BCG scholarship, current Associate to Gleescon CJ - as an example).

but, if you were to ask me to quantify the number of HD-averages (ie WAM > 85%), i would say, perhaps 2-5% of the law school population?

as a frame of reference, i remember reading (for the purposes of Honours) the cut-offs were something like:

Top 10% - averages of about 78% and above
Next 10% - averages of 75% and above
Next 10% - averages of 73% and above

hard work will get you Ds though. be content with that, mortal.

[BHHS]

Thanks for the feedback, I'm very likely going to be studying law at Sydney Uni, will this affect my ability to get a high average (in other words will the success of other students inhibit my ability to score highly, is there sort of a ranking system, and in this case would a 75% at Sydney be equivilent to an 85% at another uni)?

[edit] With respect to studying law, is there a system to obtain additional help from teachers outside of class if necessary? I know that Sydney has a "sink or swim" approach, but would I be able to show some form of practice essay to a lecturer and ask for their feedback, and if not what alternatives exist?

[Frigid]

Originally Posted by BHHS

Thanks for the feedback, I'm very likely going to be studying law at Sydney Uni, will this affect my ability to get a high average (in other words will the success of other students inhibit my ability to score highly, is there sort of a ranking system

well that's life isn't it?

of course there will be people better than you, people worse than you. accept the fact that you will be marked along a bell curve and you'll fall somewhere in between.

Originally Posted by BHHS

and in this case would a 75% at Sydney be equivilent to an 85% at another uni)?

Sydney has a good rep, but that only carries you so far. So the short answer is, no, no it's not. the other universities are not third-rate institutions, and HDs anywhere represent performance significantly over and above a distinction.

Originally Posted by BHHS

With respect to studying law, is there a system to obtain additional help from teachers outside of class if necessary? I know that Sydney has a "sink or swim" approach, but would I be able to show some form of practice essay to a lecturer and ask for their feedback, and if not what alternatives exist?

depends on the lecturer. feedback is given as norm of course, but not sure whether it extends to 'marking your practice essays'. it is usually given informally, either by a short after-class chat, an email or just rocking up at their room. rarely would you need to 'make an appointment' with a lecturer but that depends.

UNSW has the peer tutor system for first years to help them settle in academically. I don't think USyd has a similar system.

anyway, eager beaver, put your worries aside one moment. university doesn't start for another two whole months.

[BHHS]

Bear with me here

of course there will be people better than you, people worse than you. accept the fact that you will be marked along a bell curve and you'll fall somewhere in between.

Does this mean that marks are scaled and D's/HD's are awarded on the basis of a students rank and not their ability?

[Frigid]

Originally Posted by BHHS

Does this mean that marks are scaled and D's/HD's are awarded on the basis of a students rank and not their ability?

i think that is the unofficial position.

but, you see, rank and ability are so strongly correlated anyway that it doesn't matter. say you get a credit, 90% of the time you deserve a credit because you haven't reached the level of performance to attain a distinction. The remaining 10% may be because you have poor exam technique.

law schools do, at least to my knowledge, mark to a bell curve, and there are heaps of tricks to ensure everybody fits, more or less. at UNSW, we have weird stuff like maximisable assessment tasks, class participation marks etc.

[melsc]

Don't be disapointed if ur marks aren't what u expected in first year. I averaged credits ( and one pass and HD I think) and was disapointed but now in my second year my marks have improved and it seems easier to get them.

To get good marks you should go to class (as simple as this sounds many don't) do the readings and assignments ahead of time if you can All this makes it easier come exam time (esp for us at Mac, we don't get any stuvac) Good Luck!

[thegovernator]

I tend to get HD's for most of my assignments but in exams I really tend to screw them up (comparatively). I don't know what it is but I need to get more practice in somehow?

[thegovernator]

Also, back in the 70's when my Dad went through USYD combined law he came 2nd I think with an average of 82. That doesn't seem to fit with what people are saying - that 2-5 per cent of people get >85. Are the students just better nowadays?

[Frigid]

i was talking about UNSW.

for USyd, you might want to have a look at this list, which lists the S2 2007 graduands and their WAMs.

The highest WAM on that page was 87.5 (!), then two 85s...

(wow, the 87 person must be brilliant - to have come first and by a fair margin.)

[melsc]

Originally Posted by thegovernator

Also, back in the 70's when my Dad went through USYD combined law he came 2nd I think with an average of 82. That doesn't seem to fit with what people are saying - that 2-5 per cent of people get >85. Are the students just better nowadays?

Yes but that is an average, getting 85% in one subject is one thing but keeping all your subjects that high is another, generally I find if I do really well in one or two subjects the others are lower and that pulls the average down. I dont think as many as 2-5% get HD's, more like 1%

Someone told me (I dont know how true it is) about 1% get HD, about 10% get D etc... and it seems to follow. Even with HDs they generally arent that high, the only ones I have gotten have been between 85 -87% I am sure they are higher but uni markers are much less likely to give high marks, its not like high school at all.

[thegovernator]

ok thanks. i think that was his average overall, not just in one subject. anyway he's crazy though - he got 96 in real property LOL which was the highest mark they'd ever seen in the subject. the professor called him in and wanted to see the person who'd memorised his textbook. law exams weren't open book back in those days which is interesting.

[thegovernator]

Originally Posted by Frigid

i was talking about UNSW.

for USyd, you might want to have a look at this list, which lists the S2 2007 graduands and their WAMs.

The highest WAM on that page was 87.5 (!), then two 85s...

(wow, the 87 person must be brilliant - to have come first and by a fair margin.)

i think there was an 89.5 which is pretty amazing :O

[Frigid]

you're right.. there is a 89.2.

hats off to you, student 200218993 of USyd.