Anyone interested in practising law in a country town?

[neo o]

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Originally Posted by RogueAcademic

I do support this country placement scheme as well, in fact I would absolutely love to move to a seaside country town for a couple of years. I've always wanted a beachfront house with surfable waves away from the city crowds.

My concern though, and this was a concern relayed to me by a ex-partner of a law firm (actually with decades of experience in a number of top law firms), is that there may be some trouble for a rural lawyer trying to reintegrate into the city law firms.

I'd be more than happy to hear any stories that negate this concern if anyone has any? Would this be in the same context as a suburban lawyer attempting to make a transition to a city law firm position?

I imagine it'd be difficult because you'd only gain experience in very limited areas i.e. succession and family law. Then again, considering that's generally what undergraduates in city firms deal with for their first few years, I don't think it'd hurt you if you decided to spend your time in the bush for a few years.

Actually, talking about "odd" graduate choices, after doing an internship with a barrister who had a senior position in the army, I'm tossing up whether I should join the army or navy after graduating (and get my final year subsidised to boot), just for the experience.

[RogueAcademic]

Originally Posted by neo o

I imagine it'd be difficult because you'd only gain experience in very limited areas i.e. succession and family law.

That's what I thought the problem might be. But just trying to think outside the box for a moment, how often would a rural lawyer be involved in a major contracting/commercial or even perhaps a major agricultural litigation work? Surely that must happen, agribusiness is big business, huge.

Originally Posted by neo o

Then again, considering that's generally what undergraduates in city firms deal with for their first few years, I don't think it'd hurt you if you decided to spend your time in the bush for a few years.

The difference is that the law grads in city firms have a clear upward movement, whereas the rural lawyer has an upper limit that does move much beyond a certain point, or is that the wrong impression?

Originally Posted by neo o

Actually, talking about "odd" graduate choices, after doing an internship with a barrister who had a senior position in the army, I'm tossing up whether I should join the army or navy after graduating (and get my final year subsidised to boot), just for the experience.

That's not odd, I was considering signing up for the reserves myself even if I had a day job with a city law firm. I have friends in the army. It's actually quite hard to get into the military as a legal officer because most legal officers who get in, stay in. The military legal officers are generally tri-service (encompassing RAN, RAAF and AA) but I also hear that if you sign up with specific interest in the navy, you'll have the opportunity to be posted on a ship (there's a legal officer on every ship).

I'd be interested to hear any tips from the barrister you worked with, if you're ok talking about it?

[katie tully]

I think the solicitors in my town deal with a variety of things!
Every Thursday is court day! You never know, one day you'll be representing drunk driving. The next it's grievous bodily harm! Or gun offenses! Lions and tigers and bears.

Occasionally a disgruntled farmers wife will file for divorce and fleece him, so that ads spice to the career. Fair bit of conveyancing and shit for houses/developments.

That coupled with fairly inexpensive living requirements and accommodation, why not?

[4unitfreak]

Originally Posted by Cookie182

the occassional Wolf Creek style serial homicide lol

Oh oh oh definitely count me in now.... and to think I assumed it would be boring!

[RogueAcademic]

*shakes fist at katie tully*

[hfis]

I don't think the scheme is really justified... with medicine I can understand, because doctors in the bush have massive workloads and lack the support of specialists, hospitals and desperately needed medical equipment. The worst that can happen for a lawyer is that they might have to drive into Sydney one month to mention some matters at the Supreme Court, or wait until the FMC goes on circuit to somewhere near them before being able to secure a family law hearing. I think the money would have been better diverted into the community legal centre system.

That said, I turned down a job in Canberra and two in Sydney to take a job in regional NSW. Work is actually fun, the lifestyle's great, the cost of living is incredibly cheap and (dare I sound snobbish) all it takes is the fact that you're a solicitor for people to be really interested in hearing about your average day. Of course, this is dispelled when they find out you're an utter bastard just like every other lawyer ever.

It's the most hands-on experience a grad can get, and I think the exposure to litigation (if that's your thing, like me) and different areas of law makes you an excellent all-rounder. I think the disputes that Marmalade is bitching about are far more interesting - not to mention more relevant to 95% of the population - than the commercial matters traditionally dealt with in the CBD powerhouses. To each their own I guess. All I know is that I'm more useful when it comes to impromptu legal advice at cocktail parties than your average 1st year M&A grunt :P

[RogueAcademic]

Originally Posted by hfis

I don't think the scheme is really justified... with medicine I can understand, because doctors in the bush have massive workloads and lack the support of specialists, hospitals and desperately needed medical equipment. The worst that can happen for a lawyer is that they might have to drive into Sydney one month to mention some matters at the Supreme Court, or wait until the FMC goes on circuit to somewhere near them before being able to secure a family law hearing. I think the money would have been better diverted into the community legal centre system.

Hmm... that's a good point. I don't really have much of an idea what goes on in the countryside from a legal point of view other than agribusiness. Did you not come across any agribusiness work while you were out there?

Originally Posted by hfis

Of course, this is dispelled when they find out you're an utter bastard just like every other lawyer ever.

haha.. what did you do..

Originally Posted by hfis

It's the most hands-on experience a grad can get, and I think the exposure to litigation (if that's your thing, like me) and different areas of law makes you an excellent all-rounder.

But you could also easily get to do some hands-on all-round and litigation experience as a Legal Aid lawyer in the urban/city regions. Salary is about about the same (as per the article I posted) but standard if living would be higher of course.

[hfis]

Originally Posted by RogueAcademic

Hmm... that's a good point. I don't really have much of an idea what goes on in the countryside from a legal point of view other than agribusiness. Did you not come across any agribusiness work while you were out there?

I haven't done much agribusiness, but my firm handles a lot of it. We certainly do a lot of conveyancing and transfer farmland from person-to-person, as well as business arrangements such as partnerships and whatnot. If you're referring to larger import/export deals I haven't come across them yet, but my supervising partner has worked on a few individual contracts of supply between supplier/purchaser.

haha.. what did you do..

Nothing unethical - but I've certainly found that when doing litigation in a small town, conflict of interest checks are vital before establishing a client file. It's difficult to answer the inevitable 'why' when you tell someone that you can't represent them, when the answer's 'because your wife was here earlier'. Also, going out on a Saturday night when your town has 2 popular local pubs and 1 poor excuse for a nightclub isn't the best idea - you often bump into a client or someone from the other side. It's never been a problem somehow though... I think the suit gives me magical powers of deception and that I'm completely invisible when I'm not wearing it.

But you could also easily get to do some hands-on all-round and litigation experience as a Legal Aid lawyer in the urban/city regions. Salary is about about the same (as per the article I posted) but standard if living would be higher of course.

This is certainly true, and I had the privilege of working in a similar capacity while in Wollongong (although I wouldn't say it's as urban as Sydney). The only problem is that a higher standard of living (ie. more to do) means a higher cost of living... I'm unsure which I prefer at this stage. I can see myself moving to the city after gaining a few years of PQE, but by that stage I might have opted for a mortgage on a large country property or something. Who knows! I think every form of practise has its own distinct advantages, and that a lawyer who's flexibile enough to move between all of them will never be out of work. I think it's inevitable that I'll move on eventually, but my experience has been nothing but positive so far.

[RogueAcademic]

Sorry, when I said higher standard of living, I meant higher cost of living. I daresay you could have a higher standard of living in the countryside, depending on how you view it.

Anyway I'm surprised the rural lawyer isn't more involved in the agribusiness. Because if so, you could argue that the rural lawyer could gain just as much commercial experience as a city lawyer. In which case, it would really make a strong case for a rural practice. That, plus a beachfront home..

Originally Posted by hfis

by that stage I might have opted for a mortgage on a large country property or something.

You'd be nuts if you didn't. If I were in your position, I'd invest in a piece of undeveloped land with access to bore water. And then leave the property while you spend a few years in the city (with the usual property law precautions re squatters). Then when you've made your money, you'll be able to afford an architect who will build your dream home for you on the property.

[katie tully]

Originally Posted by RogueAcademic

*shakes fist at katie tully*

I was deadly serious, if I were a law grad I'd doet

[cxlxoxk]

This scheme reminds me of "The Devil's Advocate" (a movie with Keanu Reeves).

[neo o]

Originally Posted by RogueAcademic

That's not odd, I was considering signing up for the reserves myself even if I had a day job with a city law firm. I have friends in the army. It's actually quite hard to get into the military as a legal officer because most legal officers who get in, stay in. The military legal officers are generally tri-service (encompassing RAN, RAAF and AA) but I also hear that if you sign up with specific interest in the navy, you'll have the opportunity to be posted on a ship (there's a legal officer on every ship).

I'd be interested to hear any tips from the barrister you worked with, if you're ok talking about it?

She didn't give me any tips per se, we just got to talking after I found out that I had to hand some papers in early because she was going to Afghanistan. What she told me has been discussed in similar threads in these forums, basically that the army is the place to be if you want to practise international law and that they really look after you in terms of subsidising further education.

[hfis]

It's worth noting that the ADF's legal officers complete 6 years worth of further training after they join up that counts towards an LLM in defence law (or something to that effect). You're right about the available subsidies too - travel, course costs, (almost) everything. It's a really, really good job with great benefits and the only reason I didn't pursue it is because you can get posted to the other side of the country

[RogueAcademic]

Originally Posted by neo o

that they really look after you in terms of subsidising further education.

It's my understanding that one would have to have an LLM in order to progress beyond a certain point?

[neo o]

Originally Posted by RogueAcademic

It's my understanding that one would have to have an LLM in order to progress beyond a certain point?

I'd imagine so.