Best uni for studying Law?

[cottoneye]

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Originally Posted by Marmalade.

What about if the two students weren't so extremely different? What if, instead of one being crap and the other great, they were fairly similar in terms of performance? (I'm guessing that performance refers to grades?) Uni reputation won't save a terrible student, but what about an average student who is compared to a slightly better than average student at a university with a somewhat worse reputation?

You are right to say that I meant grades equal performance, but in a job seeking scenario there are many more factors than grades. Work experience, even casual employment, counts for a great deal. If the prospective employer can call a work reference that understands what another employers wants in an employee and can vouch for a candidate, that counts for a lot.

A person's CV and cover letter are also important, any spelling or syntax mistakes are unforgivable on a serious job application. If you want a great graduate job have someone read it for you, then have another person read it for you. Most university career offices will help out if need be.

Once you have applied expect to receive a telephone call from the organisation to talk to you about your application. Start to use a diary and keep notes of who you have applied to and what for. If you get to the interview stage practice answering possible questions addressing the key selection criteria using examples from your experience. So many of these simple steps can make a huge difference in your chances of securing a good job.

Yes, grades do play a part and I don't want anyone to think that I am belittling the achievement of those who work hard for their marks, but even when candidates are equal on paper there are a myriad of ways to differentiate between them. I think that in Australia, where universities are far more equal than in some other countries, if you are falling back to a position that says you are disadvantaged because of where you study you are probably compensating for an individual shortcoming.

That said, if hypothetically two candidates were equal in everything else apart from their alma mater then yes, name recognition would likely play a part.

[xXmuffin0manXx]

Originally Posted by Gerald10

The good universities guide recommends UNSW as the best but overall Sydney is more prestigous than UNSW mainly because it is the oldest law school. I think historicall speaking only Usyd graduates have become high court justices from our state but that said South Australia (the state not the Uni) hasn't ever had one either - this stat too is probably reflective of the fact that Syd has been around much longer.

USyd or UNSW are very hard to get into (but you can easily transfer) but give you the best prospects. I was told Syd model themselves on the english schools whereas UNSW is the American style of teaching. It depends what you want - if you want to work in a big firm you really need to go to UNSW or Syd but generally its more important how you do in your degree then where you do it as a MP and long time lawyer told me.

ANU has a cutoff of 95.5 and is a group of 8 uni and has a law course that is top quality even if it isnt as prestigous as Sydney or UNSW. Melbourne's JD can only be done as a post graduate course but any G8 unis would be good.

Personally I am going to UNSW because frankly they are paying me to go there. Without a Scholarship I probably would have tried to get into Sydney but ANU was a very real option. Also keep in mind that USyd is also more expensive to live at (about 2k a year more for college).

i dont think justice keiful went to uni..

[FreshOffTheBoat]

most top lawyers/barristers come from reputable unis. as mentioned earlier, if you took two students of equal level (grades, CVs, interviews, extracirriculars etc all even out (they dont have to be clones)), the student from the reputable uni will be preferred. thats the point i was trying to make and i think we have already agreed on that. theres no point comparing a the bottom student in a top uni to a top student at a no-so-top uni.
therefore the conclusion is that the law school you attend does make a difference. and hence in response to the original question, the best unis for studying law in NSW is USyd and UNSW (based upon reputation, which we agreed does play a role).

[melsc]

Originally Posted by FreshOffTheBoat

most top lawyers/barristers come from reputable unis. as mentioned earlier, if you took two students of equal level (grades, CVs, interviews, extracirriculars etc all even out (they dont have to be clones)), the student from the reputable uni will be preferred. thats the point i was trying to make and i think we have already agreed on that. theres no point comparing a the bottom student in a top uni to a top student at a no-so-top uni.
therefore the conclusion is that the law school you attend does make a difference. and hence in response to the original question, the best unis for studying law in NSW is USyd and UNSW (based upon reputation, which we agreed does play a role).

The fact that top barristers/solicitors/judges come from certain law schools is representative of the institutions age, UWS's law school was <10 years old when I started and thus how can any top barristers/lawyers have emerged in such a short time give the time it takes to become a reputable barrister for example....BTW people used to think UNSW was crap when it was a young uni!

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by FreshOffTheBoat

most top lawyers/barristers come from reputable unis. as mentioned earlier, if you took two students of equal level (grades, CVs, interviews, extracirriculars etc all even out (they dont have to be clones)), the student from the reputable uni will be preferred. thats the point i was trying to make and i think we have already agreed on that. theres no point comparing a the bottom student in a top uni to a top student at a no-so-top uni.

For fucks sake, that arguement is retarded because:
1) Most 'top lawyers/barristers' AND judges are 50+. Of course they arn't going to come from a university which has sprung up in the last 20 years!
2) Syd and UNSW have MASSIVE graduate turnovers. Newcastle, for example, produces 50. Naturally smaller unis are not going to dominate the scene.
3) Many people from Newcastle/Melbourne/Canberra/*insert city which isnt sydney* live in those places and end up working there, they are not going to dominate the Sydney courts where I'm supposing you're drawing all your conclusions.

You keep looking at unis as if they are some secret exclusive club where you learn the special handshake to get out during interviews. As I mentioned before, this does not come from what university you came from as unis pump out 100's of graduates a year.

You are a med student. It really pisses me off when people like you come on here and by throwing around a bunch of hearsay, scare off year 12s with a genuine interest in law because they are intimidated by all the BS about UAIs and an obsession with corperate law firms.

Its funny, they had a dicussion like this on the Vogue forum (made up of a lot of clerks and experienced students) and there they concluded that UTS was the best university in Sydney because of the PLT, pretty reasonable conclusion as 6 months, $7K in pocket and practical experience in interviews are far more objective features then 'prestige' as described by a year 12 student.

[cannibal.horse]

Year 12 students - if you want to do law and are trying to figure out unis read what hfis, melsc and circusmind have to say. They're the only people on here who can be trusted not to talk shit. You will save yourself a lot of stress/confusion and will be able to invest time in more important matters like drinking games, roadtrips, and checking out the Russian chick in your crim lecture who wears the skimpy outfits. I did not say that last sentence.

[circusmind]

Originally Posted by xXmuffin0manXx

i dont think justice keiful went to uni..

Nah man she went to USyd and then Harvard. Only way to get ahead. Boy's club and all that.

Sarcasm aside, she did end up doing some sort of study at Oxbridge. I'd like to think that Kiefel shows that the system works, and that true talent always rises to the top....but I'm still cynical.

[circusmind]

Originally Posted by cannibal.horse

checking out the Russian chick in your crim lecture who wears the skimpy outfits. I did not say that last sentence.

What's with the high number of law school femme fatales? Devastatingly beautiful and intelligent. Jeez---way to win the genetic lottery.

[Marin3 Muscl3]

I heard from numerous sources that a lot of people are swarming to UWS to do law cause its so freaking easy to get into.

[ephemeral]

Originally Posted by circusmind

Nah man she went to USyd and then Harvard. Only way to get ahead. Boy's club and all that.

Sarcasm aside, she did end up doing some sort of study at Oxbridge. I'd like to think that Kiefel shows that the system works, and that true talent always rises to the top....but I'm still cynical.

Yeah she got the LLM at Cambridge

I like to think Justice McHugh is an example that the system works too - I don't think he ever got a law degree but made it to the top just through natural brilliance.

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by circusmind

What's with the high number of law school femme fatales? Devastatingly beautiful and intelligent. Jeez---way to win the genetic lottery.

I reckon. Talents seemed to be heaped on people.

Speaking of law girls, I took one out from my systems class on friday night. Everything went well until I ended up reversing into someone's car.

$500 bucks out of pocket now and conversation today was awkward

[spence]

Originally Posted by FreshOffTheBoat

most top lawyers/barristers come from reputable unis. as mentioned earlier, if you took two students of equal level (grades, CVs, interviews, extracirriculars etc all even out (they dont have to be clones)), the student from the reputable uni will be preferred. thats the point i was trying to make and i think we have already agreed on that. theres no point comparing a the bottom student in a top uni to a top student at a no-so-top uni.

That's all well and good, but in every case there will be something to differentiate besides the institution they got their degrees from.

[melsc]

Originally Posted by Marin3 Muscl3

I heard from numerous sources that a lot of people are swarming to UWS to do law cause its so freaking easy to get into.

I know some great UWS law students who did not get a high UAI but still do great and will make great lawyers. UWS takes into account work experience (if not recent HSC grad) and low UAI's recognising you don't require a high UAI to be a good law student. Even if UWS law is easy to get into, itisnt easy to stay in, as is any law course!

Originally Posted by circusmind

What's with the high number of law school femme fatales? Devastatingly beautiful and intelligent. Jeez---way to win the genetic lottery.

We law girls are hot and there are lots of us!

[JasmineNuytre]

How is Law @ UTS? I might transfer there from Usyd because they have a straight undergrade B law, I hate doing combined.

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by JasmineNuytre

How is Law @ UTS? I might transfer there from Usyd because they have a straight undergrade B law, I hate doing combined.

I'd be there if I lived in Sydney. On their site there's a section where you can browse where their graduates end up. Quite a few get jobs in top tier firms, and that's only the people who give information after graduation.