Summer clerkships 2009/2010

[Omnidragon]

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1. What is the general cut-off when it comes to marks? (Gilbert +Tobin HR were the only ones to actually give an answer - distinction to high credit average)

Top tier - probably a high credit +

2. What is the weekly salary (before tax) at mid-tier & top tier-firms? (Clayton Utz HR said around $800)

- Miserable. Wouldn't be doing it because of the money. You should enjoy law. Maybe $800 gross - can't remember the ridiculous figure.

3. Do firms look for legal work experience? (I keep hearing, 'no not necessarily' but what about cases where main income is pub work)

- No. It's about whether you look like a star candidate.

4. In your experience & from what you hear on the grapevine what does it take to get an interview/offer at one of the big 6 (I guess I'm mostly interested in AAR, Mallesons & Freehills)?

- Pretty good grades; some ok extra-curricular. Basically anyone who is a top-choice recruit at any industry.

5. Does/can it benefit you if you know people working for the firm (eg. family friends are partners, uni friends have been past clerks, siblings are senior associates)?

- Maybe if your parents were partners. Other than that, no. Could even disadvantage you if the interviewer hates the person you know.

At the moment I'm most concerned about what it actually takes to get an interview.


Answers or general advice would be greatly appreciated.

[uniqueusername]

Which firm (in which city) is asking for written references?

[Frigid]

i wrote this for a friend a year ago, in preparation for her summer clerkship interviews:

• Most clerkship interviews centre around the experiences you've enumerated in your CV. Therefore, knowing the contents of your CV and cover letter well is a key preparatory step.

• When asked a question, always bring it back to qualities/skills you want to show the employer. Use detailed examples. Remember to structure your answer - describe the experience, mention any issues/challenges that arose, describe what you did to overcome these, show what the result was or what you learnt from the event.

• Treat each interview like it's your last. Demonstrate (controlled) enthusiasm and interest. Think about the (general) reasons that attract you to that firm. Be able to answer why those reasons/attributes are important to you.

• Remember that body language makes up two-thirds of all communication. Consider your posture and facial expression. Exude confidence by sitting up. Avoid too casual and too uptight postures. Don't adopt any defensive/aggressive gestures (eg crossed arms, clenched fists). Hands should be placed gently on the table, or used to make (small) gestures. Notice the body language of the interviewer in response to your answers. Elaborate on the points when their body language shows interest. It's a scientific fact that smiling is a universal sign of goodwill. Smile. It helps break up tension and overcomes your nerves. RELAX.

• Consider your oral expression. Use language appropriate in a work setting. Adopt a conversational tone. Remember, it's a dialogue, not a speech or an interrogation. Remember to PAUSE between sentences and ideas, to give time for the interview to reflect on your answers. Watch your speed... Don't blab. Don't waffle. Answer appropriately. If your answer becomes too long, finish off your answer at the next logical conclusion, then ask the interviewer if he/she wishes for you to elaborate or to provide another example.

• Actively listen: LISTEN TO THE QUESTION ASKED. Think before answering.

• Time and appearance. Give yourself plenty of time to get there, get relaxed before the interview. Dress professionally and neatly. Powersuits are good. Heels are good. Hair up is good. Sleep well the night before so you don't have eyebags. Don't go overboard with the makeup. Minimum jewelry is fine.

• An interview is like a date -- each party is trying to suss the other out, to use past and current behaviour as a prediction of future behaviour. Therefore, don't be shy to sell yourself - be persuasive and actively demonstrate why you are a suitable candidate for the job.

• Ask questions. Again, it's a date, a dialogue, not an interrogation. Ask thoughtful questions. If you've noticed that the interviewer has been with the firm for a while, ask him/her why they chose the firm, why they've stayed and whether the firm has met their expectations. Ask about what sort of things they get up to outside work and how they manage to balance these with their work. Ask them to elaborate on what's involved in the graduate program and what development opportunities are there for grads. Of course, don't go overboard with your questions. I think 3 or 4 thoughtful questions is fine.

[fnkychk]

I went for clerkships earlier this year and nobody asked me for references either before, during or after interview. Is that normal?

[uniqueusername]

I've spent a few solid days applying and it's exhausting! The extra questions are killing me:

- What is your greatest achievement?
- Describe a project you have been involved in which you found particularly complex...
- Given the current economic and political landscape what are some of the issues you think our clients might be facing?
- Identify three qualities a good commercial lawyer should possess and provide an example of a time you demonstrated one or more of these qualities.

I'm finding it hard not to cringe when answering these.

[Marmalade.]

^ Is that Blake Dawson (or at least the 3rd one)?

[uniqueusername]

Originally Posted by Marmalade.

^ Is that Blake Dawson (or at least the 3rd one)?

The third one is Blakes. A few firms that used CV mail had the first question. Baker & McKenzie asked the second one and G+T asked the fourth. Actually, G+T had heaps of extra questions.

I've finally finished all my applications. I think I applied to about 17 in the end. Now comes the waiting game.

Edit: From those that have done this before, when do the firms usually start rejecting/offering interviews?

[xinxin89]

worth applying for clerkships if you're only in second yr? or would firms think you dont have enough stuff on ur resume for them to evaluate u yet, after all, there are 4th yr pplz applying for these too

[uniqueusername]

Most Sydney firms have an eligibility requirement for you to tick at the end that says you must have at least 2, but no more than 4 semesters left.

[04er]

i've been applying for law clerkships but in all honesty i'd rather get into an investment bank.... i guess at this stage though, beggars can't be choosers and i'll take what I can get

[melsc]

Applications have closed for the majority of places... I wonder how long before the rejection emails/emails offering an interview come through?

I am hoping for Baker and McKenzie or Gilbert + Tobin and then pretty much anyone else. I decided to apply to all to give myself a shot but I'd be happy with any offer really.

[pearling]

Hey guys I'm just wondering how competitive these clerkships are? 1 in 20? 1 out of 50 get in? Also how many of these summer clerks get an offer to work after they graduation. And in general at a top tier firm, what would be the starting salary for a comm/law graduate? Thanks, I'm pretty new to this area. Good luck to everyone with their apps.

[uniqueusername]

1. Competition
Firms say they get up to 1000 applicants.

Freehills take the most: 50-60 clerks
Mallesons 30-40
Allens 40
Other big firms (BD, Clayton Utz): in the 30s
Mid tier firms (HDY, G+T): 10-15

That's around 300-400 spots for the commercial firms and however many more for the government departments. So yes, it's hugely competitive.

2. Grad offers
Most firms offer all of their clerks grad positions unless something has gone pear shaped. The whole point of the clerkship process is to get you in & gradually train you up so you're ready to go when you graduate.

3. Starting salary at top tiers
In the $50 000s but apparently G+T pay $5000-$7000 more than the top tiers to try and secure top candidates.

[stell_r]

Originally Posted by pearling

Hey guys I'm just wondering how competitive these clerkships are? 1 in 20? 1 out of 50 get in? Also how many of these summer clerks get an offer to work after they graduation. And in general at a top tier firm, what would be the starting salary for a comm/law graduate? Thanks, I'm pretty new to this area. Good luck to everyone with their apps.

Originally Posted by uniqueusername

1. Competition
Firms say they get up to 1000 applicants.

Freehills take the most: 50-60 clerks
Mallesons 30-40
Allens 40
Other big firms (BD, Clayton Utz): in the 30s
Mid tier firms (HDY, G+T): 10-15

That's around 300-400 spots for the commercial firms and however many more for the government departments. So yes, it's hugely competitive.

2. Grad offers
Most firms offer all of their clerks grad positions unless something has gone pear shaped. The whole point of the clerkship process is to get you in & gradually train you up so you're ready to go when you graduate.

3. Starting salary at top tiers
In the $50 000s but apparently G+T pay $5000-$7000 more than the top tiers to try and secure top candidates.

1. Numbers
I think most of the top tiers aim for 30-40. There's always one firm that is 'fashionable' every year and ends up with mammoth 60ish classes (because the firms have to take a bit of a gamble and make more offers than they really want since lots of people get multiple offers) - last year it was Freehills (I would be very surprised if they took that many again), the year before it was Clutz and I think before that it was Allens.
Minters takes more like 20-25, and then the big mid tiers like HDY, G+T, Bakers, Corrs etc usually want somewhere between 10-20.
800-1000 applicants sounds about right. When you get to the cocktail party stage you start to realise that it's basically the same core group of 200-300 that are doing the rounds at all the firms. So if you get to that stage your odds get much better, and so the main issue becomes getting an offer from your first choice firm.

2. Grad offers
Ditto to the above. Last year the top tiers/bid mid tiers took made grad offers to pretty much everyone, even Freehills I think made offers to all but a couple. It's more of a case of having a reason not to hire you than you giving them a reason to hire you, if you get what I mean. There's a strong presumption in favour of taking on everyone. That said, it's probably less the case in some of the smaller mid tiers. People at firms like DLA, Middletons etc were the ones that really got burnt in terms of grad offers last year.

3. Salary
I think grad salaries at the big firms are more like $65000-$70000, with G+T always significantly above. There's always variation between the firms (more than I thought there would be, actually) and don't be surprised that the big tiers sometimes pay less since they know their name, reputation, training opportunities will always attract top candidates. You'll see the difference at the summer clerk stage, but obviously no one would seriously pick one firm over another on the basis that it pays you $70 a week more as a summer clerk

I guess applications have closed by now, have any of the firms started making interview offers?

Good luck to everyone who's applying, it's pretty stressful but in retrospect I actually really enjoyed the chance to get to know the firms and all that, and the clerkship experience is really great- I highly recommend it even if you're not 100% sure you want to be a lawyer.

[melsc]

PWC sent me an online test to take, I have been told the Accounting Firms are quick