Which university is best for law?: The definitive answer

[TheLawBaroness]

You can hide this advertisement by registering.

"Which Australian university is best for law?"

For those about to do their HSC, transfer into a law degree or who are just curious, I have used the latest, most relevant statistics to answer this question hopefully once and for all. As updated statistics become available I will update this post.

The following is based on the Good Universities Guide 2009. It is the most statistically relevant research done and cannot be substituted by subjective reasoning from those at their respective universities which I personally found made it very difficult to decide what uni to attend.

I myself am doing an Economics/Law degree at the University of Western Sydney. My university did not have enough respondents to the survey and as such were not rated for law in the 2009 edition. I find this makes me completely unbiased in my rankings as I honestly don’t care which one wins but I simply want to help those who do.

The criteria for judging which law school is the best have to be the things that people really care about: Starting salary and employment rate. Also, I will include quality of teaching, development of relevant skills, and general satisfaction of graduates. These are all categories dealt with by the Good Universities Guide.

I will make a table with the universities and their results as well as the average across all universities. To determine which is 'the best' will ultimately be a value judgement on the reader's part, assisted by this table, but I will create what I see as a fair ranking system.

There are many universities, but from a quick browse of threads, I selected the following as the ones people are most interested in: University of Western Sydney ( UWS ) [Due to lack of data, UWS Law did not get reviewed and is not included], University of Sydney ( SYD ), University of New South Wales ( UNSW ), University of Newcastle ( UNEWC ), Australian National University ( ANU ), Macquarie University ( MACQ ) and Monash University ( MON ).

There are other law faculties and I will source my statistics at the end so you can investigate those if you wish. If anyone can suggest another university commonly discussed in comparison to those above, let me know and I will add them to the table.

Bold and in blue are the best universities in each category and bold and in red are the worst universities in each category.



As for a ranking system, it will depend on the importance you place on each category. Assuming you put high value on starting salary, here are the results:

1. University of New South Wales
2. University of Sydney
3. Australian National University
4. University of Newcastle
5. Average
6. Macquarie University
7. Monash University

And for employment rate (% of those who sought work and found it, within 4 months from graduating)

1. University of New South Wales
2. Monash University
3. Average, Australian National University and University of Sydney [Tied]
4. Macquarie University
5. University of Newcastle

In terms of other factors (teaching quality, skill development, and overall satisfaction):

1. University of New South Wales
2. Australian National University
3. Average
4. Macquarie University
5. Monash University
6. University of Sydney and University of Newcastle [Tied]

Overall Rating

1. University of New South Wales
2. Australian National University
3. University of Sydney
4. Monash University
5. Macquarie University
6. University of Newcastle

Conclusion:

I was disappointed that my university wasn’t rated but can assume from past results that it wouldn’t have been at the top of the list. The University of New South Wales outperformed all other universities and if I had my time again, and the necessary marks, I would definitely choose UNSW for my law degree. If one wanted to be sure that they would receive better than average teaching quality, skill development and overall satisfaction, as well as a very high rate of employment and exceptionally high starting salary (when compared to averages), The University of New South Wales is clearly the first choice.

There are other unmeasurable factors such as reputation, history etc. but no significant analysis on these and their relevance to a future career in law can be done; except to say that employment rates and teaching quality can be looked at as indicators as to which universities law firms prefer.


So....
Which is the best university to do law at? The University of New South Wales.



Important:

Quoted from UMELB graduate law information:
‘Law is an exciting and challenging discipline. It offers insight into the worlds of politics, business and public affairs as well as the role of law itself, and leads to a wide range of careers.’

A law degree, is a great achievement and provides a solid foundation for many careers no matter which university you attend. If you try your hardest and maintain decent marks, your university will become irrelevant. For instance a high distinction average from the University of Newcastle will most probably trump a credit average from The University of New South Wales.

UAI requirements and location as well as secondary degree choices may change the ranking for you, and also I highly recommend taking a tour of the law faculty facilities at a shortlist of your university choices to get a better feel for which ones suits you.

Also, I am sure that students will respond with rankings and explanations arguing with what I have found but please do not bother. The only way possible at this point in time to rate universities is to use data retrieved from graduates.

Your subjective judgements or the things you hear from people simply complicate the matter for people, like I used to be, who need a straight forward answer. I have delivered the best possible answer to these people and although your university might not be first or second please do not make things difficult for these people just to soothe an (unwarrantedly) bruised ego.



Source:

• The Good Universities Guide 2009

This was accessed online at: http://www.thegooduniversitiesguide.com.au/. A free registration is required to access the data and the actual research can be a bit tricky but here is how I did it:

- http://www.thegooduniversitiesguide.com.au/
- Register and sign in (need valid email address)
- Click ‘University Ratings’ (on left side)
- Under ‘institution ratings’ type in the name of the university and make sure ‘undergraduate’ is selected
- Click search
- Results will come up, click ‘view ratings’ next to the desired university
- You will see general university ratings, scroll down to ‘How its undergraduate courses rate and compare’ and select ‘law’
- Displayed are all statistics used and their comparison with the average
- Repeat for each university

---------------

@ strawbaby: University of Melbourne no longer offers undergraduate law and as such is not included in the study

@ Others: Whilst your university may not have faired so well, this report would have helped me considerably and will help those needing to decide on a law school. Refer to my comment regarding bruised egos

@ cannibal.horse: I don't wish to fill this thread with posts when I can simply edit this to respond to comments. This thread is meant to help those who need to decide on a uni, we have all seen many threads asking which uni to attend. I stated that UAI and location are important factors but I guarantee that salaries, employment rates, teaching quality, skill development and overall satisfaction are VERY important for those picking a law school. You are obviously taking this personally, being from UNEWC but please don't. Also many law graduates do not seek work in the law industry so this is a law graduate study, not a strictly legal practitioner study. Also please stop posting, especially double posting, I'm sorry the study hurt your ego, it isn't meant to. No one is talking about top tier selections and previous studies have no relevance to this years. You are not helping anyone.

@ tallkid: As I just said, UAI and location are very important factors that need to be considered but no one posts a thread with their address and asks which law school is best. That is up to them, and I mention that. I am just giving general information that will apply to everyone. I've added the secondary degree thing, but this is mostly intended for those whose law degree is their primary concern

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by TheLawBaroness

=

Best uni for law

[Strawbaby]

What about UniMelb?

I feel sad we got left out

Also I concur with the above

[Graney]

Student reported course/teaching satisfaction data is dodgy.

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by TheLawBaroness

@ Others: Whilst your university may not have faired so well, this report would have helped me considerably and will help those needing to decide on a law school. Refer to my comment regarding bruised egos

To begin with if you have a response post a god damn reply.

Secondly I'd believe these things if they weren't so goddamn shit. None of these are actually done by legal practitioners, and even if they were, most legal practitioners are either far too snobbish or progressive to give plausible results.

Like, UNSW has superior 'skill development' - how? it doesnt even offer the PLT, its grads arn't even technically lawyers. Surely the PLT would have a whooping place in 'skill development' considering its a LEGAL REQUIREMENT before you practise? what do they base this shit on?

Your comment helps nobody, it just intimidates students who are looking at a variety of unis.

This (and i'm going to post this a few times) is how students should pick unis for law:

1) UAI - you can't get into a course you don't have the UAI for.
2) Geography - is it close to you?
3) Course considerations - can you select the majors you're interested in for arts? does it have a combined degree you can't do elsewhere?

/end bs.

[mrs destiny]

that was quite interesting, thanks

surprising though

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by mrs destiny

that was quite interesting, thanks

surprising though

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by TheLawBaroness

@ cannibal.horse: I don't wish to fill this thread with posts when I can simply edit this to respond to comments. This thread is meant to help those who need to decide on a uni, we have all seen many threads asking which uni to attend. I stated that UAI and location are important factors but I guarantee that salaries, employment rates, teaching quality, skill development and overall satisfaction are VERY important for those picking a law school. You are obviously taking this personally, being from UNEWC but please don't. Also many law graduates do not seek work in the law industry so this is a law graduate study, not a strictly legal practitioner study.

Employment rates? potentually (though you have to consider a lot of things like intake of mature aged students)

Teaching quality? nobody who has been to uni would say that, all unis have good/shit lecturers.

Salaries? that basically means how many students are being recruited at top tier firms, does anyone care?

Skill development? we've been over this.

I like the 'You're taking this personally being from UNCLE', if you actually look at the Good Universities Guide book 2-3 years previously then supposedly we've been dominating the rankings right behind USyd for years, and guess who else was? Bond...

I take this personally because there is an attitude on here that graduate/top tier clerk turnover is indicative of the quality of university, which is absolute shit. If year 12 students are really considering how they will be viewed by top tier firms in their uni selections then we live in a sick world.

Someone else call her an idiot and say something similar, I feel like I'm pissing into the wind here...

[tallkid34]

Originally Posted by TheLawBaroness

I have delivered the best possible answer to these people and although your university might not be first or second please do not make things difficult for these people just to soothe an (unwarrantedly) bruised ego.

Your analysis was like this regression model;

LAW = B0 + B1lawschool + u

LAW is binary dependent variable (LAW=1 (UNSW), LAW=0 (Other uni))
lawschool is simply the level of research in different law schools
u represents unobservable factors that have an effect on LAW

In other words, your analysis was shit...

Although, your analysis should be something like this;

LAW = B0 + B1lawschool + B2UAI +B3Geography + B4other degree + u

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that you've left out other unobservable factors that may have had an effect on one's choice of law school in your analysis, specifically for me, "other degree".

Still, I don't do law and I go to UNSW anyway so it doesnt matter either way to me

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by TheLawBaroness

Also please stop posting, especially double posting, I'm sorry the study hurt your ego, it isn't meant to. No one is talking about top tier selections and previous studies have no relevance to this years. You are not helping anyone.

Your argument = 'this study is right, and if you disagree with it then I'll accuse you of having a "bruised ego"'

I'm out. The mods will tell you you're an idiot soon enough.

Don't worry, I won't forget to neg you.

[jenecis]

Originally Posted by cannibal.horse

To begin with if you have a response post a god damn reply.

Secondly I'd believe these things if they weren't so goddamn shit. None of these are actually done by legal practitioners, and even if they were, most legal practitioners are either far too snobbish or progressive to give plausible results.

Like, UNSW has superior 'skill development' - how? it doesnt even offer the PLT, its grads arn't even technically lawyers. Surely the PLT would have a whooping place in 'skill development' considering its a LEGAL REQUIREMENT before you practise? what do they base this shit on?

Your comment helps nobody, it just intimidates students who are looking at a variety of unis.

This (and i'm going to post this a few times) is how students should pick unis for law:

1) UAI - you can't get into a course you don't have the UAI for.
2) Geography - is it close to you?
3) Course considerations - can you select the majors you're interested in for arts? does it have a combined degree you can't do elsewhere?

/end bs.

Hey, I disagree on the UAI point.

I got 99.95 but chose UNSW over USyd Law even if it's further way and UAI cutoff is - omg - 0.15 lower.

But I agree with point 3 - I'm doing Commerce/Law and UNSW is better for commerce. Plus it has more flexible timetabling options.

[spence]

Originally Posted by jenecis

Hey, I disagree on the UAI point.

I got 99.95 but chose UNSW over USyd Law even if it's further way and UAI cutoff is - omg - 0.15 lower.

But I agree with point 3 - I'm doing Commerce/Law and UNSW is better for commerce. Plus it has more flexible timetabling options.

How can you disagree on the UAI part? Did you read what he said? He never said do the course with the highest cutoff that you can do

[Lara1986]

Originally Posted by Graney

Student reported course/teaching satisfaction data is dodgy.

Exactly - i've noticed that the teachers who get the worst response from students are often those who are in fact better teachers and students simply don't like them because they don't put up with their crap and expect them to do their work.

[blue_chameleon]

Hahaha fucking lol at OP.

Obviously hasn't finished a degree and competed in a job market with others.

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by spence

How can you disagree on the UAI part? Did you read what he said? He never said do the course with the highest cutoff that you can do

Exactly, I didn't meant 'go for the highest uai' but rather that your choice of uni will be limited by the uai you recieve (also taking into account transfering, graduate entry etc).

Notice your on here a bit spence, can I take a crack by guessing you're looking to do graduate law at sydney?