Suburban Law Firm Salary

[magic]

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Hi,

I was just wondering what is the going rate for work as a newly graduated solicitor in a suburban general law practice. Is it $35,000-$40,000. Also how much is the going rate for 2 years post admission experience in a suburban general law practice?

Thanks

[dste6]

This annual survey may help you. I would look at the small firms for an indication. Keep in mind that all figures will have risen since 2007.

http://www.mahlab.com.au/files/Surve...PAustralia.pdf

[withoutaface]

Originally Posted by magic

Hi,

I was just wondering what is the going rate for work as a newly graduated solicitor in a suburban general law practice. Is it $35,000-$40,000. Also how much is the going rate for 2 years post admission experience in a suburban general law practice?

Thanks

Hahaha if that's the case then you'll be getting paid less than I have as a clerical assistant at a firm with two solicitors ($21/hr).

[dste6]

I think people focus too much on graduate salary as an indicator of financial reward in this profession. In a sense, why should a 1st year level, junior solicitor, be paid more than a paralegal, who may have years of experience in their role; someone in their 1st year of most professions doesn't know shit, why should they be paid as if they do?

Instead, I think its a better idea to focus on the impressive rise in salary as your career progresses. You may be potentially earning 3-4 times more within only 10 years. That is very good progression compared to other careers, I think.

[Omnidragon]

Originally Posted by dste6

I think people focus too much on graduate salary as an indicator of financial reward in this profession. In a sense, why should a 1st year level, junior solicitor, be paid more than a paralegal, who may have years of experience in their role; someone in their 1st year of most professions doesn't know shit, why should they be paid as if they do?

Instead, I think its a better idea to focus on the impressive rise in salary as your career progresses. You may be potentially earning 3-4 times more within only 10 years. That is very good progression compared to other careers, I think.

Hmm... see the problem is that the rise is not that impressive.

Yea sure you could be earning 3-4 times within 10 years, but you probably won't be. The rise is not that great. And you are talking about a suburban firm in particular yea?

If you do end up getting 3-4 times within 10 years, that's probably because you're half-decent. But that means you probably would've been that successful in anything you did anyway. You probably could've been a real estate agent. Hell you can probably make 10x in 10 years time if you were riding a good boom.

But no generally I wouldn't go into law, let alone a surbuban law firm, expecting 4x rise in salary.

[dste6]

Omnidragon, I was basing my arguement on the data in that survey, I assume those figures were derived from a representative sample size of the industry in Australia, and are reasonably correct? Both low and high ends of the range tend to follow this trend as well.

I realize that this is not an independent academic study, so if you feel these figures are incorrect, please let me know.

I was talking about the career as a whole; I've noticed a lot of people on this forum saying that they feel lawyers don't get paid that well. I think this 10 year salary progression is very good compared to majority of the Australian workforce. Growth potential in Australia is not that high, we're not America .

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by Omnidragon

Hmm... see the problem is that the rise is not that impressive.

Yea sure you could be earning 3-4 times within 10 years, but you probably won't be. The rise is not that great. And you are talking about a suburban firm in particular yea?

If you do end up getting 3-4 times within 10 years, that's probably because you're half-decent. But that means you probably would've been that successful in anything you did anyway. You probably could've been a real estate agent. Hell you can probably make 10x in 10 years time if you were riding a good boom.

But no generally I wouldn't go into law, let alone a surbuban law firm, expecting 4x rise in salary.

I don't get this.

I know an insurance lawyer who works in a small time partnership in Newcastle (in his 50s) earning enough to own a yacht worth a couple of million.

I also know a public prosecutor with a massive farm estate.

Surely the salaries in boutique firms can't be that shit.

[dste6]

Look I think a lot of it comes down to what kind of numbers one regards as 'impressive'.

5-10 years ago, Deliotte, P&G, Thales were coming into graduate careers fairs, poaching law and engineering graduates into 120k positions off the bat with huge growth promise. This does not happen anymore. 5-10 years ago, a douchebag carpet salesman could earn his real estate agent hefty commission on loans to buy up warehouses and showrooms. This is winding down.

I think now days, and certainly into the next 10 years, a projection of 150-180k is for a moderately successful lawyer (lets give ourselves benefit of the doubt here ) in a sensible area of practice is both realistic, and imho impressive.

Of course, 150-180k at the age of 30 does not buy (or finance) you a porsche, but you are sitting in a 370Z or an A4 if you like...and thats nothing to complain about .

[Omnidragon]

Originally Posted by cannibal.horse

I don't get this.

I know an insurance lawyer who works in a small time partnership in Newcastle (in his 50s) earning enough to own a yacht worth a couple of million.

I also know a public prosecutor with a massive farm estate.

Surely the salaries in boutique firms can't be that shit.

Well that's like saying I know real estate agents that own a yacht and live in mansions. I also know chefs who live in million dollar houses too and eventually go on to own a few restaurants. There're people who succeed in every industry. But if you're basing your career choice on a few select, successful people that's a bit misinformed.

[Omnidragon]

Originally Posted by dste6

Omnidragon, I was basing my arguement on the data in that survey, I assume those figures were derived from a representative sample size of the industry in Australia, and are reasonably correct? Both low and high ends of the range tend to follow this trend as well.

I realize that this is not an independent academic study, so if you feel these figures are incorrect, please let me know.

I was talking about the career as a whole; I've noticed a lot of people on this forum saying that they feel lawyers don't get paid that well. I think this 10 year salary progression is very good compared to majority of the Australian workforce. Growth potential in Australia is not that high, we're not America .

Yeaaa... I feel the small firm figures are a bit misleading since the upper bound is reached by few at small practices.

But I guess if you meant it looks pretty good compared to most factory workers, yea maybe.

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by Omnidragon

Well that's like saying I know real estate agents that own a yacht and live in mansions. I also know chefs who live in million dollar houses too and eventually go on to own a few restaurants. There're people who succeed in every industry. But if you're basing your career choice on a few select, successful people that's a bit misinformed.

Mate, in cities like Newcastle working in areas like insurance, property (particularly with development companies), mining and medium sized businesses earning 100K+ is pretty standard after 5-10 years. I can't quote you exact figures but ALOT of my friends parents are earning more than my parents as teachers.

I understand what you're trying to say and you're right - any business where you don't own capital you're not going to be raking it in. But still, if a mcmansion, spoodle and speed boat is what you're after and you're willing to put in the hours, practicing law at a boutique/mid tier firm is a good way to go about it.

btw: I don't base my career on money, but spoodles are fair awesome.

[dste6]

whats a spoodle?

[cannibal.horse]

Originally Posted by dste6

whats a spoodle?

A crossbreed of poodles and cocker spaniels.

Medium sized, intelligent, are non allergenic and good natured, so they're a good family dog.



It's like the new Labrador.

[Omnidragon]

Originally Posted by cannibal.horse

Mate, in cities like Newcastle working in areas like insurance, property (particularly with development companies), mining and medium sized businesses earning 100K+ is pretty standard after 5-10 years. I can't quote you exact figures but ALOT of my friends parents are earning more than my parents as teachers.

I understand what you're trying to say and you're right - any business where you don't own capital you're not going to be raking it in. But still, if a mcmansion, spoodle and speed boat is what you're after and you're willing to put in the hours, practicing law at a boutique/mid tier firm is a good way to go about it.

btw: I don't base my career on money, but spoodles are fair awesome.

Well if one gloats about earning 100k+ in 10 years, might just struggle a bit with the McMansion, unless you're talking about buying in Newcastle.

[cottoneye]

You will not be rich as a lawyer in Australia (except for a select few) but you will also not be poor (unless desperately unlucky or entirely not cut out for the profession. The vast majority of lawyers earn good incomes. Depending on your background, lifestyle and expectations you might consider yourself either well-off or underpaid.

Australia doesn't have the stratospheric salaries as seen in NY, London, etc experienced during the naughties boom. I refuse to accept that 100k/yr is a low income. If you manage your money well you can have a nice house, nice car, overseas holidays and change. It just means you cannot fly first class, have a 12 bedroom mansion and drive a ferrari.