Juris Doctor (JD) vs LLB

[kickass91]

You can hide this advertisement by registering.

Hi everyone.

I've seen the new? graduate law degree "Juris Doctor" (adopted from the US system) offered at UNSW UTS Monash Melbourne etc.

UNSW says it's aimed at non-law graduates and it is a full -time 3 year program but you can accelerate it full time and complete it in 2 years if u skip some subjects.

I was wondering which one is better. the JD or the LLB (adopted from the UK)?
UNSW doesnt even have the LLM anymore. It's been replaced by the JD

Does being a 'graduate degree" make it better than the LLB which is a bachelor degree? Which one is more recognised among law firms in Australia and in the corporate sector?

Also, from a personal standpoint, I'm currently a year 12 student looking at working in Investment banking/ Mergers Acquisitions/ Corporate Finance. Would it be better for me to get the Comm/Law (LLB) degree at USYD /UNSW working in summer clerkships/paralegal jobs in law firms during my degree.

Or would it be better to complete a single Commerce Degree with a double major and then do the JD graduate program?

Thnx for your comments

[dste6]

I might be able to answer some of your questions. However, keep in mind that I'm a graduate student from Victoria, and I've chosen a JD over a graduate-entry LLB. Everyone is in a different situation and what is a good choice for some, may not be for others.

JD has a few advantages over LLB, some a more direct than others. Employers may potentially look slightly more favourably on a JD. As a whole, JD cohort tend to be older and have greater life experience; their CV's may be more impressive. HR departments are associating 'JD' with experience, and this is valuable. Having 'JD' on your cover letter may catch the employers attention and set you apparent from the pile. Keep in mind this isn't really a huge advantage; when it comes down to it JD may get you noticed, but good grades are what will get you an articles clerkship or graduate job at a law firm.

A more direct advantage of JD is that its electives can be drawn from comprehensive LLM programs at some universities, whilst LLB electives are limited to undergrad units from its own program. The result is that at Monash, JD offers around 100 electives, whereas LLB offers half that. Melbourne Uni JD also offers much more electives than its LLB used to, due to its linkage with the Melb LLM.
Take note that this is the scenario in Victoria, and programs differ between universities, so check this out first.

On a personal level, from experience I've found that many people change their minds about what they want to do, during undergrad. This was inconceivable to me during high school but its very common, and absolutely fine. If your not familiar with the fields you've mentioned (the array is actually quite wide) and the role of a lawyer within them, consider doing your generalist degree (B.Comm) first, get to know the fields well, then do JD. You might find that you want to be an actuary instead.

However, if your absolutely sure you want to be a lawyer, then there's no real reason why you shouldn't do Comm/LLB. While JD offers some advantages over LLB, you couldn't call it 'superior'. Most of these advantages cater towards graduates that don't want to go back to do another bachelor. At the end of the day, when your looking for a job, a law degree is a law degree, provided its from a good school and with good grades.

I think you should base you decision more on your personal feels about whether your sure you want to do law (commit now), or explore other things (wait till later).

Excuse the novel. If you have questions, don't hesitate.

[cottoneye]

Originally Posted by kickass91

Also, from a personal standpoint, I'm currently a year 12 student looking at working in Investment banking/ Mergers Acquisitions/ Corporate Finance.

Just to clarify, do you want to work as an investment banker, or as a lawyer who does work related to IB?

If you want to be a lawyer then there is no reason not to study law straight out of school if you can get the grades. Failing that, you can apply for the JD if your grades remain relatively high throughout your first degree. You might be surprised how your interests will change once you begin studying at university so don't feel you have to make these decisions now.

If you want to be an investment banker study commerce and do extremely well, try and find work in the area for experience, build an impressive resume. IB is extremely, extremely competitive. Since the GFC even moreso. Everyone who I knew from uni in the field has been laid off (small sample size I know but they were all exceptional students with good interpersonal skills).

I'm not trying to say it can't be done, just understand that it is a very difficult field to break into. As an aside, try not just to consider the high salary. They are paid so much because they work very long hours week in week out under high pressure. If you love working it can be great, for many it is a dissapointment.

[Frigid]

Originally Posted by kickass91

I've seen the new? graduate law degree "Juris Doctor" (adopted from the US system) offered at UNSW UTS Monash Melbourne etc.

UNSW says it's aimed at non-law graduates and it is a full -time 3 year program but you can accelerate it full time and complete it in 2 years if u skip some subjects.

I was wondering which one is better. the JD or the LLB (adopted from the UK)?
UNSW doesnt even have the LLM anymore. It's been replaced by the JD.

Does being a 'graduate degree" make it better than the LLB which is a bachelor degree? Which one is more recognised among law firms in Australia and in the corporate sector?

firstly, small correction about UNSW LLM - you could not be more [b]wrong[b].

secondly, JD isn't 'adopted' from the US system. to study law in the US requires completion of a graduate law degree and that's what a JD is. it's still a first degree in law (compared to LLM, SJD and PhD). as you know, all the law schools offered LLB as a stand-alone program for graduates as well.

whether the JD course structure differs significantly from an LLB - mm, in my view, not really. compare, for example, the course structure of UNSW JD and the UNSW LLB (NB: don't mind the change from Foundations to Foundations A & B - i think that is happening for everybody). the only difference i presume is that you study one more law elective. i suppose they will let you postgraduate electives as well in the JD; but (a) why you want to do so without work experience in a specialist area of law is beyond me; and (b) undergraduate LLB students can also enrol in certain postgraduate electives anyway.

Also, from a personal standpoint, I'm currently a year 12 student looking at working in Investment banking/ Mergers Acquisitions/ Corporate Finance. Would it be better for me to get the Comm/Law (LLB) degree at USYD /UNSW working in summer clerkships/paralegal jobs in law firms during my degree.

Or would it be better to complete a single Commerce Degree with a double major and then do the JD graduate program?

if you want to be a big firm lawyer working in M&A/cap markets, do a combined law degree. just by doing two separate degrees across 6 years doesn't necessarily make you more marketable.

if you want to be a investment banker, make big bucks and have no life, then my advice is skip law altogether and just do a straight commerce degree (maybe add honours) and kick arse at it.

then again, every little HSC kid has this com/law->M&A->early retirement dream (even after the GFC? come on!), so i suspect your career goals will change significantly during university.

[dste6]

Another suggestion is to do B.Comm and transfer into B.Comm/LLB after 1st or 2nd year; this is a good idea if your not 100% decided on what you want to do, but don't want to wait 3 years to do a JD.

Also, I urge you not to take our comments negatively. I think we all (including myself) may have come across as saying "ohhh your in year 12, you don't know what your doing..don't do law..don't do investment banking etc etc".
We don't know you. You might be the most conscientious and focused year 12 in the world, in which case we have no business telling you when you should decide what to do with your career, or how to get there.
However, you've provide a fairly wide variety of career interests. Investment banking is extremely different to M&A, which is extremely different to corp finance; one may benefit from a legal background, whereas another would benefit more from an accounting background. This leads us to believe you haven't quite decided what you want to do yet.

The consensus is that JD is not significantly different from LLB. The biggest difference is when you'll be doing them. That is the main thing you should probably be thinking about.

[kickass91]

thnx for ur advice, guys

yeah sorry, i was wrong bout the LLM thing. I mustve been really tired and misread "graduate LLB" as LLM. "Graduate Law (LLB) From 2010 the Graduate Law degree at UNSW will no longer be offered. "

u guys are right. i dont know what i want to do yet. Practicing the Law is not necessarily my first choice, but I just want to keep my options open.