Answers about Law

[claudia_p]

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Congrats to your daughter, that's an amazing UAI!
(I know you weren't asking me, but I know a bit which may help you)
Did you particularly want to go to UQ?
Because Sydney Uni has a very good reputation for law, and If you go to Sydney with a uai of 99.95, you'll get a $5000 scholarship for the first year automatically. i think sydney uni also has a very good political science course, which is considered superior to most other political science courses because it is taught by their economics and business faculty, not the Arts faculty as in most other universities. Macquarie uni i think will give you $2500 a year for the length of your degree. ANU in Canberra also has a good political science course (being in Canberra, you'd expect it to!) and its law degrees are supposedly very strong in international law, as well as being recognised well internationally.
You can also combine your law degree with international studies. UNSW has a really good international studies course where you can specialise in European Studies, Asian Studies, Languages or Global Studies. I know a graduate of this course who now works for the UN (he didn't even combine with law), and the law degree has a very good reputation, so it would definitely be worth considering.

You should check out the universities' websites for more information concerning scholarships. Unfortunately, many of the application dates have probably already closed, but you may be lucky. If not, ring up the universities and tell them your daughter got 99.95 and wants to study there- I'm sure they'll be more than willing to help you manage to study at their university!!

Hope I helped, best of luck!

[wizard]

Thanks Claudia
Do you know if this money continues after 1st year? Don't want to sacrifice proximity to home, many relatives in Brisbane, current boyfriend at GC etc for only one year's support. Also do you know anything about girls colleges at Syd? Have looked at website but personal experience often gives a better picture.
Thanks

[1000words]

Originally Posted by wizard

Hi David
I was so glad to find you on here. My daughter has just finished her HSC and receieved 99.95. We knew she'd do well but were astounded with this result. We live in northern NSW and had planned on her going to UQ - thought she'd start arts and then try to change to Arts/Law. Now she can go anywhere and do anything and we are a bit overwhlemed with decisions to make. Her other interest is Political Science. I know you did Com/Law and she is a bit concerned about job prospects in the Arts/Law area. Do you have any advice about which dual degree? She would really like to go into Foreign Affairs (has always dreamt of working for the UN!) but we are a little worried about jobs. As well she will have to live away from home. Probably on campus. We are not poor but not wealthy either. Do you know of any scholarships etc available? We think we earn too much for the Comm., UQ Excellence or Go8 which they offer at UQ. I rang the scholarships office at UQ and they said that all of these are mainly awarded on the basis of financial hardship.
Thanks

Congratulations on your daughter's result! I am sure that your postive support as parents helped immensely - this is often the case I see with students who do well.

It seems that Claudia has given excellent advice particularly in relation to the different universities in your area, advice about political sciences and the scholarship opportunities that are available. From what I understand, the scholarships should usually cover the entire degree.

I am not quite sure where your concern about employment prospects with arts/law v comm/law lie. As a student of high calibre, this is a strong indication that she has the potential to keep doing well - this will open many doors as there are always fantastic employment opportunities for those who excel.

Do you mean with a career in law? I really believe she will have no problems whatsoever in getting a job and firm of her choice if she continues to perform. I strongly believe that it does make too much of a difference whether she does arts or commerce. I think the concern about employment in regard to 'arts' stems from those who do a straight arts degree. An arts/law degree may only restrict her from getting employment at jobs in the commerce field, obviously

As for UN work, I am not sure whether it is a position that you can get into straight away (even though you can get a UN internship etc). That said, she would be advised to build her profile as soon as possible since UN positions are highly competitive - her arts degree can help tremendously with that: she can study the political sciences and international affairs. In addition to Claudia's advice, your daughter can also take the opportunity to learn languages (particularly french).

Finally, try not to be too 'overwhelmed' with your decision. I understand that it will be a significant commitment in terms of moving etc but be sure to take your time.

Best of luck, and again, congratulations! Feel free to post more questions if you would like more information.

Regards,
David

[mr EaZy]

i got some links which can help wizard out (regarding opportunities on the international field) does anyone know how to put up one of them "important" threads that stay up forever -so next year's people can look at them??

my uai is not as good as wizard's daughter 97.90, but i still have the same aspirations at the UN, DFAT or other places. I was thinking of doing advanced arts @usyd and then transfering to arts/law at Usyd (after 1 year) . Does anybody think this is a stupid/risky idea???? Because i dont wanna do a single LLb at UTS. If i dont get into combined law i wanna do arts.

REason?: well this history/english teacher joined out school this year, he was one of the top law grads students at UTS recently and well, i dunno why he's here! so if it aint law combined, then i dunno what to do

[1000words]

Originally Posted by mr EaZy

my uai is not as good as wizard's daughter 97.90, but i still have the same aspirations at the UN, DFAT or other places. I was thinking of doing advanced arts @usyd and then transfering to arts/law at Usyd (after 1 year) . Does anybody think this is a stupid/risky idea???? Because i dont wanna do a single LLb at UTS. If i dont get into combined law i wanna do arts.

Is it possible to combine law with "advanced" arts? If not, you may choose to select the "basic" arts program. This may not sound as glamourous to your friends but you are more likely to do well in your first year (arguably, the subjects are easier and you're competing against 'lower ranked' students) - and this may be your top objective. If you can't combine "advanced" arts, then you would be transferred back to the "standard" arts anyway if you were to successfully get into law.

I hope that helps.

[mr EaZy]

i think u can only combine law with standard arts.

so what ur saying is that if i cant do a desirable law degree, do a standard arts degree (which is easier than Arts (adv) ) ??

[1000words]

Originally Posted by mr EaZy

i think u can only combine law with standard arts.

so what ur saying is that if i cant do a desirable law degree, do a standard arts degree (which is easier than Arts (adv) ) ??

That's what I believe. It's not that the subjects are necessarily easier, it's that you will be competing against people (in the advance course) with a higher year 12 result. Does that make sense?

[mr EaZy]

yeah, Thanks DAVID!

[cranberries]

Hi David!

I'm currently trying to decide between Commerce/Law at UNSW and Business/Law at UTS- in your opinion, which degree is more desirable to future employers? Right now I'm basing my descision on personal preference, but it's a bit hard because both UNSW and UTS have their pros and cons!

Another question I have is: How come you can study modern languages as a comajor with a plain commerce degree at UNSW and not with commerce/law?

Oh, and last question: I actually never really considered law before I got my HSC results and would like to know generally what the course is like. I don't really want to be a lawyer, but just want the law degree to broaden my options when I enter the commerce workforce :P

What are the classes like? Do they concentrate on the actual practical lawyer situtations ( eg, going to trial, defending a case) or more on the theory?

Thanks in advance!

[wizard]

Thanks for all your advice everyone.
This is a great thread for those with questions about law.
Do you have those links Mr Eazy? They sound like they may be useful.
I'm also wondering about the money on offer from Syd and UNSW. We have recieved no information about these.
I've also ordered "Laying Down the Law" - some holiday reading for my daughter! Thanks for that one David. I was a little concerned though because the Dymocks site had it as published in 2001. Is that recent enough?
Thanks

[cr05]

Actually, I too am very curious about what the law classes are like. Can you please tell a prospective law student anything of relevance regarding the general structure, (ie lecturer talking to 500 students, followed by small tutorials) and also things like group presentations and mooting. What do they involve, difficulty, stress, research level.

I have been looking at the compulsory law courses for both USyd and UNSW, and would like to know a little more about the 'Advanced Legal Research' subject offered by both universities. What does it involve? I presume a hefty research task...any details?

To Cranberries: have you written off USyd as an option for Comm/Law....why not do Full-fee using the new FEE-HELP scheme. This allows you to defer ALL tuition fees, up to a max of $50,000 - a little more than two years of combined law. And at the end of those two years you have the option of transfering to HECS com/law. Thats what I am probably going to do. By the way, and I am certain you know this, you would need a distinction average to transfer.

And thanks David for 'Laying Down the Law' - thats exactly what I was looking for!

To wizard: I am pretty sure david is right - those $5000 scholarships last for the full course...ie $25000 for her Arts/Law deg. Good for her!

[Lainee]

Originally Posted by cr05

I have been looking at the compulsory law courses for both USyd and UNSW, and would like to know a little more about the 'Advanced Legal Research' subject offered by both universities. What does it involve? I presume a hefty research task...any details?

From what I've heard, the subject is mostly concerntrated on how to access legal information - library research.

[Suvat]

Usyd and unsw both use small group teaching, that is, about 4 hrs per week (2 x 2hrs) you sit in a regular classroom (not lecture hall) and engage in meaningful discussion with your instructor about the nail biting subject that is law...

Additionally, the usyd foundations of law course (first law course everyone does) has an optional 1 hr lecture each week where some guest speaker (professors from other unis, politicians, judges, some tribunal guy) comes to talk about their area of law (or maybe spread propaganda).

"Laying down the law" is actually a set text for the usyd foundations course, but it is kinda useless, most of the work in foundations involves reading the thick 2 volume compulsory reading package assembled by the faculty

[1000words]

Originally Posted by wizard

I've also ordered "Laying Down the Law" - some holiday reading for my daughter! Thanks for that one David.

Uh oh, I hope your daughter doesn't hate me for it! It is a prescribed text book, after all

The publication date of 2001 is fine as the foundations of the law are here to stay for quite some time.

Best of luck!

[1000words]

Hi Cranberries!

Originally Posted by cranberries

I'm currently trying to decide between Commerce/Law at UNSW and Business/Law at UTS- in your opinion, which degree is more desirable to future employers? Right now I'm basing my descision on personal preference, but it's a bit hard because both UNSW and UTS have their pros and cons!

I am may be idealistic by suggesting that you go with your personal preference based on interest. This is because you would ideally like to base your employment opportunities based on what you find interesting! For example, I chose a science combination because I was interested in science and whilst other year 12 people cannot comprehend the opportunities available, this comes to light once you're in year 12. Having a specialised/different degree opens up a niche employment market.

You are choosing a course which you think you would enjoy the most (if that doesn't eventuate as hoped, then you can change) and you will do better and benefit more from it. Remember that you are doing law, and if you're keen in pursuing a law degree, it's the law aspect of your degree that matters most.

Originally Posted by cranberries

Another question I have is: How come you can study modern languages as a comajor with a plain commerce degree at UNSW and not with commerce/law?

This is most likely because you can study languages as subjects and have it credited as elective subjects to your commerce degree. In a combined degree, the subjects credit to each other (I hope that makes sense). The flexibility to choose electives is significantly less when you choose a combined degree (that's not a negative thing because you are effectively choosing electives which gives you a separate degree).

Originally Posted by cranberries

Oh, and last question: I actually never really considered law before I got my HSC results and would like to know generally what the course is like. I don't really want to be a lawyer, but just want the law degree to broaden my options when I enter the commerce workforce :P

Yes, I think that is a valid reason for wanting to enter into the law degree. I am not sure whether it will broaden your options once entering the commerce work force (i.e. positions may not require a law degree to apply) but it will stand out more so than others when applying for jobs.

Originally Posted by cranberries

What are the classes like? Do they concentrate on the actual practical lawyer situtations ( eg, going to trial, defending a case) or more on the theory?

A mix of both, I believe. There is a push towards having more practical classes but the theoretical aspects probably need to stay and this alone takes up quite some time! You add practical aspects of law into your profile by taking part in the extracurricular activities in the law school, such as competitions in mooting, client negotiation, and witness interviewing.

I hope that helps!