Reflections of a 4th yr pharm student--pls read if you're considering pharm

[r3d3mption]

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Pharmacy sucks hours are long at uni because there are heaps of breaks + you make crap pay for learning all this crap hard stuff. Do med or do an applied science to get MONIES otherwise GG to your life

[Darian]

wont working in a pharmaceutical company in R&D, marketing of drugs, etc. be better/more enjoyable/less boring/more money?

[lala2]

^^Maybe, but industry isn't something I've really considered just because I'm not sure how to get in. I think the most important thing is to survive the next year, and you can only do your prereg year in one of two places--community or hospital. I might see about industry after though, don't want to cut out my chances.

If anyone was wondering how saturated the market is getting, this year in NSW, there's 500 prereg pharmacists, double the previous year, and the number of places have actually decreased, as the hospitals' funding have been cut and I'm sure a number of community pharmacies are going too due to the GFC.

[Tim035]

Originally Posted by Darian

wont working in a pharmaceutical company in R&D, marketing of drugs, etc. be better/more enjoyable/less boring/more money?

Yes, but it is a very difficult industry to get in to. Most big pharma companies never put out adds, they just head hunt the best in the field for the disease they are trying to target. Also most of what is done in industry is very systematic:

1 - Identify target (e.g. receptor, enzyme, ion channel etc..) they want to target / intervene
2 - Screen the 500'000 compounds they have in their combinatorial chemistry register till they find some with high affinity (this is mainly robotics)
3- Screen the 5 or so hit compounds to find the one with the highest potency
4- Push this compound through pre clinical and clinical trials as fast as possible

This is grossly simplified, to the point where it is largely inaccurate, but it highlights the point. Industry is about making money, not about understanding the fine details by which the drug achieves its mode of action or binds to its target.

If you want to put in to action all the extensive details you learn about modes of drug action on a molecular scale etc... Then Academia laboratory's would be the place to go.

[lala2]

Wow thanks for that Tim035. Seems like industry may not be for me then, though I'm not the type to burn bridges, esp so early in my career. I'm pretty set on hospital jobs though, for the next year anyway.

[sydneyphoenix]

Originally Posted by lala2

If anyone was wondering how saturated the market is getting, this year in NSW, there's 500 prereg pharmacists, double the previous year, and the number of places have actually decreased, as the hospitals' funding have been cut and I'm sure a number of community pharmacies are going too due to the GFC.

Huh? how did it double over the last year? I know CSU-Orange has first turned loose the first graduating class, so that's extra 40 or so, but there doesn't seem to be any (significant) number in Pharmacy graduates from any uni. Or has there been a huge influx from Interstate or Internationally-trained people?

It does seem that Hospital Pharmacy is becoming a common choice for internship, whether by choice or due to saturation in Community Pharmacy sector-I think both. Good thing is that unlike professions such as law or medicine, it appears going "rural" for a few years doesn't seem to adversely affect one's long-term career prospects...just my 2 cents.

[extensorindicis]

is it the master of pharm people from usyd? canbera uni? maybe newcastles MPharm etc?

[Darian]

Originally Posted by Tim035

If you want to put in to action all the extensive details you learn about modes of drug action on a molecular scale etc... Then Academia laboratory's would be the place to go.

academia laboratory = crap money right?

[danz90]

Woot I might be able to get involved in Pharma Industry fieldwork if I get accepted into the faculty's talented student's program!

Lala, do you know anything about the talented students program??

[lala2]

Originally Posted by sydneyphoenix

Huh? how did it double over the last year? I know CSU-Orange has first turned loose the first graduating class, so that's extra 40 or so, but there doesn't seem to be any (significant) number in Pharmacy graduates from any uni. Or has there been a huge influx from Interstate or Internationally-trained people?

It does seem that Hospital Pharmacy is becoming a common choice for internship, whether by choice or due to saturation in Community Pharmacy sector-I think both. Good thing is that unlike professions such as law or medicine, it appears going "rural" for a few years doesn't seem to adversely affect one's long-term career prospects...just my 2 cents.

See below. But yeah, going rural doesn't seem to affect your prospects. I'm curious as to why med? So many things can be done online now or through teleconferencing, so I don't know how continuing education would be that much of an issue.

Originally Posted by extensorindicis

is it the master of pharm people from usyd? canbera uni? maybe newcastles MPharm etc?

Yep that's right. Newcastle, USYD and Canberra masters had their first lot of grads this year I think. Let's say about 30 each, so 90. Then you've got people from interstate, and probably overseas as well. I'm guessing the cohort for the bachelors at CSU and USYD increased significantly too.

Originally Posted by danz90

Woot I might be able to get involved in Pharma Industry fieldwork if I get accepted into the faculty's talented student's program!

Lala, do you know anything about the talented students program??

Congrats on being nominated It's a great honour. As far as I know, only the top 4 students are accepted (or that was for my year anyway). Your grades are very worthy, I don't think you'd have any trouble getting in...unless you know 4 other people with a higher average? You get to do some individual projects I think, with a supervisor (not sure if the supervisor's of your choice though, but I'd assume so). Yes, there's plenty of industrial work, in fact, it might actually be most of the work, in which case, lucky for you I don't know what the time commitments are like, but there is holiday work involved I'm pretty sure. Good luck, when will you know? Let us know how you go

[danz90]

Originally Posted by lala2

Congrats on being nominated It's a great honour. As far as I know, only the top 4 students are accepted (or that was for my year anyway). Your grades are very worthy, I don't think you'd have any trouble getting in...unless you know 4 other people with a higher average? You get to do some individual projects I think, with a supervisor (not sure if the supervisor's of your choice though, but I'd assume so). Yes, there's plenty of industrial work, in fact, it might actually be most of the work, in which case, lucky for you I don't know what the time commitments are like, but there is holiday work involved I'm pretty sure. Good luck, when will you know? Let us know how you go

Thanks!
I have to do an interview next week with a panel of 3 academics (oh goshhhh!)
from the faculty. They say that 4-8 are gonna be picked, although I don't know if the WAM plays any role in selection, I have a feeling it might just be interview performance?

[lala2]

I actually wasn't aware there was an interview required. Maybe it's a new thing or maybe because the TSP student I talked to didn't mention it. It could very well be interview performance actually, since I'm assuming that, at that calibre of academic achievement, any differences would be very minor. Just prepare well, be well spoken, and show your motivation. You've got excellent reasons, so make them extremely clear.

And on the topic of good news and interviews, I got my SECOND interview, which is more than I ever dreamed of, especially for such a competitive place. It's Blue Mountains Hospital. Wish me luck, it's next Thursday

[lala2]

An update's in order, especially as closing date is tomorrow. The job situation is worse than ever. I've had 3 hospital interviews, no luck. I've literally just had a community interview. The situation is BAD trust me. The community pharmacy's received FIFTY applications for TWO positions. It's as bad as hospital...mmmm maybe not, but with hospital 70:1 and this pharmacy 50:2 (or 25:1) it's still pretty bad.

And let's see, I learnt something else from this interview. The pharmacist, who graduated 4 years ago, said in his time, there were 80 graduates. And only from USYD. Now, there's 500 graduates (as I mentioned earlier) and it's getting more and more competitive.

So, if you're choosing pharmacy for the job prospects, think again. My greatest fear is I've worked my ass off, sacrificed my LIFE for four years just to get a degree that doesn't even guarantee a job. There will be no jobs left in Sydney by the time you finish, and there may not even be any left in NSW....or worse, Australia (apparently it's equally as bad in other states except maybe QLD, and knowing what will happen--they'll open up more schools until there's way too many grads, by which time it'll be too late...)

Seriously, I hate to say this, but with the job prospects being as they are, you'd be better off doing a more relaxing degree because the job prospects are going to be the same either way (i.e. crap).

[mixt]

nice post lala.. a similar thing is happening to med graduates.. theres a LOT of schools offering mbbs degrees now but now there's a bottleneck for the training places, internships and paid work.

just wondering about what happens to the other 48 pharm grads that don't make it into the interview? do they end up doing research or something?

[lala2]

Thanks. No, this particular community pharmacy I get the feeling is interviewing everyone (or nearly everyone) who's applied. But yeah, the others are simply going to have to find jobs elsewhere, whether that be community or hospital. Correction to my earlier post--in some hospitals (especially rural), it's more like 30:1. So community's not the piss easy backup I thought it would be.

What about you? Are you doing med? I guess it must be even worse, trying to get across to the parentals that no, you're not 100% employable upon graduation.