is art a bludge

[-may-cat-]

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Real artist in the making here, he knows French and all! How about instead of mindless insults you actually try and use this fantastically creative brain you keep speaking of and form a logical argument.

[jinglebells]

talking of generalisations. i dont have a fantastic brain i reject that notion as inspired by lyotard. and i am using it fine, whats wrong with it love?

[-may-cat-]

Look troll, it's been fun, if you don't feel like playing along then i cbf.

[rpnzl]

Originally Posted by aussienerd

i was told by someone who happens to be the dux of a private school that art is a bludge... what does everyone else think?

Oh wow. I love how much debate there is.
Haha. I do art and its not so much a bludge because there's actually a lot of content and its extremely time consuming especially when you have to balance other school commitments.
So whoever told you that is a big fat liar

[alex.leon]

Originally Posted by random-1005

you have the easiest subjects ever, just 4 majors works, a whole year (one and three quarters if you started in yr11 like a smart person would) to do four major works, all of your subjects are arts, to easy.

wheres the maths??, wheres the science??, wheres the social science??

your a perfect example why they should make everyone do a maths or a science

thats one thing i only just realised now, have you guys noticed that they have left all the shit subjects to the last week (except engineering). you got drama, art, design tech society culture, geo, endless list of shit

It's actually 5 majors, drama has two. And I did start in Year 11 actually, I had a whole lot of my Extension 2 done before the beginning of year 12, don't make half-arsed assumptions.

Again, I reiterate, you don't actually DO any of these subjects at a senior level. You don't understand the commitment and hard work that is actually put into these subjects. To give you a primary example, Music 2 scales better than Physics. Why? Because it's about 3 times harder, and requires you to be analytical/conceptual/theoretical/practical etc etc etc.

Just to pick a hole in your argument, Society and Culture IS a social science subject, so I don't think they've left all the 'shit subjects till the last week' as you so ignorantly asserted.

Honestly, you're a fuckwit. A major work is one of the hardest things about the HSC. They require independent investigation, consistent motivation, money, time, skill, logic, creativity, the list goes on. I truly don't understand how you can deny that an arts subject deserves just as much merit as a science or maths course.

[alex.leon]

Originally Posted by -may-cat-

I agree that this would be great, but on the same note i think people that take creative subjects need to accept that there are a lot of HSC subjects out there that are simply much, much more difficult. It would be nice if people could stop jumping to conclusions that someone is some sort of boring elitist snob for pointing this out.

But doesn't that depend on what you classify as difficult? Like, I would find great difficulty in a complex maths problem. The asian whose locker is next to mine would find great difficulty in devising a group performance. Ta da.

By the way, I definitely agree with you to an extent. I know that Latin Extension, 4 unit maths and the like are way beyond my capabilities, and acknowledge that they are perceivably difficult in terms of concepts to grasp etc. All I want to say is that the creative subjects are constantly written off as 'bludges', and it's highly judgemental, and almost offensive to someone who has literally spent hours upon hours upon hours trying to relay complex ideas into musical/dramatic/artistic/literary form.

Hey, there's a bit of a middle ground. Extension 2 English is primarily a creative subject and it's classed as difficult, right?

I dunno, it's just annoying. Just because something requires originality and creativity rather than memorising formulas and working out mathematical problems, it's deemed as a bludge.

[rpnzl]

Originally Posted by Cinnamonster

Well then to answer your question, no.

Why is it that people think the Creative and Performing Arts subjects are all bludge subjects?

Originally Posted by -may-cat-

lol, nah man i wasn't talking about you, you seem like a pretty tolerant kind of person. But time and time again it comes up in these sorts of threads:

"you think your so good just cuz you do science! you don't understand! you're boring! you're so uncreative! you're up yourself!"

Yes sometimes this is provoked, but often it just comes from an off-hand remark about how HSC art, drama, sac, cafs are not as hard as some HSC math and science courses, which in all honesty is more or less true.

While your points of the subjectivity of difficulty are very much valid, the fact is that the syllabus requirements of some courses means that 90 percent of the time they are always going to be far more demanding than others in terms of time and effort. Of course you are going to get people that are just naturally gifted in some disciplines and shithouse in others and it is here that i think your points of subjectivity most apply. However lets look at things realistically, a lot of year 12 students are not naturally talented in any of the subjects offered in the HSC. They do alright in most if not all of their subjects, not failing, not doing fantastically, just getting a general grasp of the concepts good enough to get a nicely rounded ATAR. For such students, it would take a lot more time and effort to get their head around say 4 unit math work than visual art theory as the concepts themselves are just more complex (the concepts required at HSC level by the syllabus).

EDIT: Let me make it clear that i am talking in terms of the demands required by the HSC syllabus, not the discipline as a whole outside of an HSC context.



People like you piss me off like no tomorrow, can you not see how utterly hypocritical you are being?

Lol well said.

[-may-cat-]

Originally Posted by alex.leon

But doesn't that depend on what you classify as difficult? Like, I would find great difficulty in a complex maths problem. The asian whose locker is next to mine would find great difficulty in devising a group performance. Ta da.

By the way, I definitely agree with you to an extent. I know that Latin Extension, 4 unit maths and the like are way beyond my capabilities, and acknowledge that they are perceivably difficult in terms of concepts to grasp etc. All I want to say is that the creative subjects are constantly written off as 'bludges', and it's highly judgemental, and almost offensive to someone who has literally spent hours upon hours upon hours trying to relay complex ideas into musical/dramatic/artistic/literary form.

Hey, there's a bit of a middle ground. Extension 2 English is primarily a creative subject and it's classed as difficult, right?

I dunno, it's just annoying. Just because something requires originality and creativity rather than memorising formulas and working out mathematical problems, it's deemed as a bludge.

Yes, creative subjects often do get the short end of the stick don't they? It is a shame, just wanted to show a bit of the other side. I just think its so fruitless to resort to calling science/math people mindless snobs, kind of defies the whole point don't you think?

[alex.leon]

Originally Posted by -may-cat-

Yes, creative subjects often do get the short end of the stick don't they? It is a shame, just wanted to show a bit of the other side. I just think its so fruitless to resort to calling science/math people mindless snobs, kind of defies the whole point don't you think?

Haha, I'm inclined to say the opposite. I always respect people who do maths/science, it's waaaaay beyond my scope of knowledge. It's not mindless either, there's just...a different set of skills needed.

Anyway, I best be off. My art exam is tomorrow and this was supposed to be my '5 minute break before I go to bed' after a day of study...!

[-may-cat-]

well, its good that you are more open minded.

[random-1005]

Originally Posted by alex.leon

It's actually 5 majors, drama has two. And I did start in Year 11 actually, I had a whole lot of my Extension 2 done before the beginning of year 12, don't make half-arsed assumptions.

Again, I reiterate, you don't actually DO any of these subjects at a senior level. You don't understand the commitment and hard work that is actually put into these subjects. To give you a primary example, Music 2 scales better than Physics. Why? Because it's about 3 times harder, and requires you to be analytical/conceptual/theoretical/practical etc etc etc.

Just to pick a hole in your argument, Society and Culture IS a social science subject, so I don't think they've left all the 'shit subjects till the last week' as you so ignorantly asserted.

Honestly, you're a fuckwit. A major work is one of the hardest things about the HSC. They require independent investigation, consistent motivation, money, time, skill, logic, creativity, the list goes on. I truly don't understand how you can deny that an arts subject deserves just as much merit as a science or maths course.

and they are really that hard when you have forever to do it, lol, just listen to music and shit in class, then at the end of the yr you are all rushing, and you wonder why?

you are constantly in wanker mode, music, art, drama, ENGLISH!, all of those subs require you to wank on about stuff that is not even there, all those wanker techniques, always have to over analyse everything, have you ever wonder maybe, just maybe, the composer didnt make it to make some bullshit comment about society??

i guess its what happens when you give someone too much choice, they pick the wanker bludge subs

[jinglebells]

hi! i would like to make a point clear i got very angry yesterday and started a rant it has been a build up of things not just this post. I dont think science or maths is any better than art, they are all equal what i was trying to say is i detest this attitude that SOME people possess towards arts, and when someone insults your passion well in my case i get very angry because it seems quite common towards art now. so please people just take time to understand it a bit more. And sorry i indicated that maths and science were wanker subjects because they arent, they are practical and extremly imperative to society, however the arts also reach the same platform on an intellectual scale. so neither is better than the other, but i love art so please don't mock it. and random wow captian fuckwit, this is what i was trying to talk about in my first post these delinquents who hold unintelligable viewpoints. please die.

ART IS NOT A BLUDGE

[random-1005]

Originally Posted by jinglebells

hi! i would like to make a point clear i got very angry yesterday and started a rant it has been a build up of things not just this post. I dont think science or maths is any better than art, they are all equal what i was trying to say is i detest this attitude that SOME people possess towards arts, and when someone insults your passion well in my case i get very angry because it seems quite common towards art now. so please people just take time to understand it a bit more. And sorry i indicated that maths and science were wanker subjects because they arent, they are practical and extremly imperative to society, however the arts also reach the same platform on an intellectual scale. so neither is better than the other, but i love art so please don't mock it. and random wow captian fuckwit, this is what i was trying to talk about in my first post these delinquents who hold unintelligable viewpoints. please die.

ART IS NOT A BLUDGE

lol, i thought with all the extra wanking you wouldnt get that wrong

go wank some more tosser

smoke a joint, and then stare at "art", half of the english/art teachers at my school are on fukin drugs, i wonder why, they need some "inspiration" for there art works LOL

[Cinnamonster]

Originally Posted by random-1005

and they are really that hard when you have forever to do it, lol, just listen to music and shit in class, then at the end of the yr you are all rushing, and you wonder why?

you are constantly in wanker mode, music, art, drama, ENGLISH!, all of those subs require you to wank on about stuff that is not even there, all those wanker techniques, always have to over analyse everything, have you ever wonder maybe, just maybe, the composer didnt make it to make some bullshit comment about society??

i guess its what happens when you give someone too much choice, they pick the wanker bludge subs

Okay so you don't like or have any respect for the creative or performing arts. We understand.
However, Music is not necessarily about blabbing on about stuff. You cannot bludge your way through this subject. I get how you can decide on what you think about an artwork and talk about how you interpret an artwork and make up stuff up, sure and we all do this in English, but you CANNOT do this in Music. Music is a completely different style of subject.
By the way, can you play a musical instrument? Because if not then I suggest you should not talk about Music in terms of it being a "bludge subject". Learning, practicing and playing a musical instrument is a difficult thing to do and I have found that it is nothing whatsoever like artmaking practice.
On a side note, if you hate over analysing things then perhaps you should not have taken Advanced English.
Now please, I understand you hate Visual Arts and the rest of the CAPA subjects and you have no need to say anything more about your hate for them so maybe you should just go away and leave us alone. You've expressed your opinion and we have understood. The end.

[supercalamari]

No subject is easy if you want to do well. Art can be a bludge if you want to put in no work or get a poor result... but that goes for everything else too.

You get out the work you put in.