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Thread: Forced to drop to Standard by School

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    IDK what the rule is but I know for senior classes, since classes are optional (e.g. english advanced) the teachers have the power to do whatever they want to the students. I don't think the boardofstudies handles the issue of people not wanting to get the subjects they are desperate for but it's the schools that do however if the issue is brought up to the principal (and you've given strong points on why you should do the english advanced course) and it hasn't been resolved in your favour, you may take it up to the DET

    Not really, in both there's the AOS and 3 modules however English advanced isn't that much more difficult than standard (other than that the texts are slightly harder and you do shakespeare)

    No, I think they can drop you out as long as they have reasoning to do so and they've given you the chance to sit the course in school (like how you did in yr 11)
    The irony is that no matter how much I argued with my teacher she insisted Advanced and Standard are completely different and this is the same response you get with other teachers. Then why do they in their own minds and amongst themselves if they know Standard and Advance arn't that different then why do they tell the complete opposite to us students. If assuming this is the case.

    I well aware there is hardly any difference between Advance and Standard in terms of course and workload which is also why I don't want to drop. You misunderstood me. What I was saying is that arn't they considered 2 complete different courses by the Board of Studies?

    I don't get what you mean by classes being optional (Is there such a thing?) and then teachers suddenly have the power to do whatever they want according to you. What you said makes no sense to me unfortunately.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    I well aware there is hardly any difference between Advance and Standard in terms of course and workload which is also why I don't want to drop. You misunderstood me. What I was saying is that arn't they considered 2 complete different courses by the Board of Studies?

    I don't get what you mean by classes being optional (Is there such a thing?) and then teachers suddenly have the power to do whatever they want according to you. What you said makes no sense to me unfortunately.
    Well they're kinda similar in that sense bc AOS is common btwn the 2 and both have 3 modules which focus on different things (i.e. in english advanced, you need a related text for mod C and AOS however in english standard, in Mod A and B you are required to have related texts as well as the AOS). English Advanced Modules are focused around historical time frame, values and themes, representation, politics etc

    English Standard Modules are focused around some society thing and Australian texts etc which IMO is really boring compared to advanced

    In yr 11 and 12, we are free to pick whatever subjects we want (with the exception of english standard or english advanced being compulsory. English Advanced is optional wheras english standard is compulsory in the case that you don't pick advanced). In years 7-10 we are forced to do maths, english, science, etc and hence those classes must be covered before optional classes such as senior classes can be covered (this is either a DET rule or BOSTES rule)

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    Junior Member trecex1's Avatar
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop21 View Post
    Hahaha. You serious right now? You've come into OP's thread, and your answer is "If he is being forced to then it isn't up to him", AND you're saying "end of story".

    OP is clearly upset over having to drop to standard, you would understand that from reading his post, so obviously we can assume he's wanting to know what he can do to stay in advanced. We can ALSO assume because of this that he is trying to do advanced if he can. HENCE why you're comment is pointless. Are you seeing it now?
    No I really don't, if you actually read his post he clearly says What should I do? Just drop to standard...You can assume what you want, either way you're not contributing anything to the discussion.
    I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore. pce.

    @OP it seems fair they would drop you in the interests of your whole cohort. Different schools do things their own way so you can try to appeal to your teachers, but at this point it's probably too late to start regretting your past decisions.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    Well they're kinda similar in that sense bc AOS is common btwn the 2 and both have 3 modules which focus on different things (i.e. in english advanced, you need a related text for mod C and AOS however in english standard, in Mod A and B you are required to have related texts as well as the AOS). English Advanced Modules are focused around historical time frame, values and themes, representation, politics etc

    English Standard Modules are focused around some society thing and Australian texts etc which IMO is really boring compared to advanced
    Yes I was well aware of this prior to making this thread. But again this was not what I was asking or what I was trying to understand unfortunately.

    In yr 11 and 12, we are free to pick whatever subjects we want (with the exception of english standard or english advanced being compulsory. English Advanced is optional wheras english standard is compulsory in the case that you don't pick advanced). In years 7-10 we are forced to do maths, english, science, etc and hence those classes must be covered before optional classes such as senior classes can be covered (this is either a DET rule or BOSTES rule)
    I understand that but, but the thing is even though English is considered as a whole is compulsory you can pick between Advanced and Standard, from what I come across they haven't specifically mentioned Standard and Advanced to be different is this regard but yes we can assume. But still arn't they considered to be 2 different courses by the Board of Studies?
    Last edited by Bluee; 24 Sep 2016 at 1:53 PM.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Why do people keep on mixing up "your" with "you're" and even "yours"??

    That's why I cannot understand all these critical analyses in the English syllabuses with no concern with the ability to be able to say what you want to say clearly and simply, without errors in spelling and basic grammar.
    Last edited by Drongoski; 24 Sep 2016 at 12:27 PM.
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    I understand that but, but the thing is even though English is considered as a whole is compulsory you can pick between Advanced and Standard, from what I come across they haven't specifically mentioned Standard and Advanced to be different is this regard but yes we can assume. But still arn't they considered to be 2 different courses by the Board of Studies?

    But again the strange irony is that these teachers insist to students that Standard and Advance are different courses but when they themselves possibly are where they are quite alike in their own mind or amongst themselves.
    If you really want to know email the BOSTES, but what I think is that they have similarites and differences like I already mentioned

    Also, you should ask someone on this forum named "cem" who knows all about this stuff but I don't think she's an english teacher though
    Last edited by eyeseeyou; 24 Sep 2016 at 12:40 PM.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by trecex1 View Post
    No I really don't, if you actually read his post he clearly says What should I do? Just drop to standard...You can assume what you want, either way you're not contributing anything to the discussion.
    I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore. pce.
    You clearly did not understand me as I pointed out in my previous posts. I am sorry.

    Stop trying to defend yourself as its not helping you or anyone here.

    @OP it seems fair they would drop you in the interests of your whole cohort. Different schools do things their own way so you can try to appeal to your teachers, but at this point it's probably too late to start regretting your past decisions.
    You have a fair point which I agree with. But at the same time for me personally I feel it wasn't done in the best of my own interests. But yes they have to consider the cohort as a whole rather than just one person which I can understand and compromise on.

    If this was the case which indeed may be, I would have preferred the school to be a little upfront about it. Especially in the letter they sent me as they avoided mentioning anything like that. But yes sometimes its in the best interest of the school to not let out the actual reasons.

    I simply lacked the effort and motivation in English as a whole. I ended up making a mistake which I have throughly learnt from. I will try my best and go to all lengths to put my case for remaining in Advanced.
    Last edited by Bluee; 24 Sep 2016 at 2:06 PM.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    I'm pretty sure schools can't force you to drop a subject or transfer.

    They don't have the right to. They recommend and it can seem like you're forced to drop and transfer, but legally they're not allowed.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by si2136 View Post
    I'm pretty sure schools can't force you to drop a subject or transfer.

    They don't have the right to. They recommend and it can seem like you're forced to drop and transfer, but legally they're not allowed.
    This may well be the case. But may I suggest Bluee that you (preferably with your parent or parents) make an urgent appointment (doesn't help much - being holidays now) with your Head of English, and ever so diplomatically and politely, asked to be allowed to continue with your Advanced. Maybe you can give a good reason/excuse for your previous poor performance, e.g. you were spending too much time on your other subjects, and that you will now make amends.

    Don't ever use a confrontational approach, unless you can afford a very good lawyer to fight your case - in which case, you lose even if you win, cause they will "fix" you later (a kind of Pyrrhic victory). Nobody likes being challenged.

    Of course, during the year, your teacher should have (has he/she?) given you some caution/warning that you had to buck up in your work, "or else". From what you originally indicated, you had no prior warning.
    Last edited by Drongoski; 24 Sep 2016 at 1:33 PM.
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by si2136 View Post
    I'm pretty sure schools can't force you to drop a subject or transfer.

    They don't have the right to. They recommend and it can seem like you're forced to drop and transfer, but legally they're not allowed.
    Nice to hear of this. Thank you.

    Besides the only problem is they 'apparently' already put me into Standard for HSC as they put it out in the letter they sent me yesterday. This was done without my consent or any sort of prior discussion held with me in relation to this. What now?

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Drongoski View Post
    This may well be the case. But may I suggest Bluee that you (preferably with your parent or parents) make an urgent appointment (doesn't help much - being holidays now) with your Head of English, and ever so diplomatically and politely, asked to be allowed to continue with your Advanced. Don't ever use a confrontational approach, unless you can afford a very good lawyer to fight your case - in which case, you lose even if you win, cause they will "fix" you later (a kind of Pyrrhic victory).
    Already wrote one last night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drongoski View Post
    Of course, during the year, your teacher should have (has he/she?) given you some caution/warning that you had to buck up in your work, "or else". From what you originally indicated, you had no prior warning.
    Correct, I never got an actual warning the whole time. I myself knew I was not performing to the best of my abilities in English but was totally gobsmacked when I got their letter yesterday saying that they have so suddenly changed me to Standard.
    Last edited by Bluee; 24 Sep 2016 at 9:46 PM.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Drongoski View Post
    As an aside, and hopefully a timely reminder: those of you currently in Year 10 - take your Prelim year work next year seriously. I have read many a time posts on Bored suggesting Yr 11 is a bludge year, and to enjoy yourself while you can before you embark on your HSC year. Work hard in year 11, try to enjoy your work - but whatever you do, don't take things too easy. But I'm not suggesting you work 24/7 with no life. Not at all. Combine work with play. Learn to develop a healthy routine and discipline that will set you up for a more purposeful and successful future. Try to avoid having to say later: I wish I had done this or done that etc etc.

    Enough sermon for a day!
    I agree with this. Hope this thread motivates others to work harder espercially in Advanced English. You don't want to end up where I am at the moment.

    I was a fool putting all my time into subjects like Phys, Chem, Eco and Maths. Doing brilliant in them and doing horrible in Adv English which I treated as a total bludge subject. English is the only thing that has to count on your ATAR so I should have taken it much more seriosuly.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by si2136 View Post
    I'm pretty sure schools can't force you to drop a subject or transfer.

    They don't have the right to. They recommend and it can seem like you're forced to drop and transfer, but legally they're not allowed.
    I think they can as long as they have a good reason to do so

    Also I'm sure schools can prevent students entering certain courses

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    I think they can as long as they have a good reason to do so

    Also I'm sure schools can prevent students entering certain courses
    Proof?

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Bluee

    Don't send that letter out yet until you had some time to polish it. There are a few parts that can be improved upon. Remember you want to give it the best shot you can. Maybe it should be sent in the name of your parents, not yours.
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Drongoski View Post
    Bluee

    Don't send that letter out yet until you had some time to polish it. There are a few parts that can be improved upon. Remember you want to give it the best shot you can. Maybe it should be sent in the name of your parents, not yours.
    Um already sent it last night.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    I think they can as long as they have a good reason to do so

    Also I'm sure schools can prevent students entering certain courses
    Yes they can prevent students from entering courses.

    But when students have been enrolled in the course for some months they can't suddenly kick out students?

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    Yes they can prevent students from entering courses.

    But when students have been enrolled in the course for some months they can't suddenly kick out students?
    For how many months had you been doing the HSC English Advanced course when they kicked you out? Didn't you say it was effective from the start of Term 4 (which is usually when people would start the HSC English Advanced course?)?

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by InteGrand View Post
    For how many months had you been doing the HSC English Advanced course when they kicked you out? Didn't you say it was effective from the start of Term 4 (which is usually when people would start the HSC English Advanced course?)?
    Yes from Term 4 as it said in the letter and I been doing Advanced since the beginning of the year. I have not had a face to face conversation with the head teacher or my teacher about this yet and wont be able to have one for the next 2 weeks. The week I come back it will be HSC.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    Yes from Term 4 as it said in the letter and I been doing Advanced since the beginning of the year. I have not had a face to face conversation with the head teacher or my teacher about this yet and wont be able to have one for the next 2 weeks. The week I come back it will be HSC.
    You had been doing Advanced since beginning of the year, but that would have been Prelim. English Advanced. So they probably didn't consider themselves as suddenly kicking you out after months of doing the course, because they did so at the start of HSC English Advanced, which they may have considered as something like a fresh start.

    Did all the people ranked below you get a letter too?

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by InteGrand View Post
    You had been doing Advanced since beginning of the year, but that would have been Prelim. English Advanced. So they probably didn't consider themselves as suddenly kicking you out after months of doing the course, because they did so at the start of HSC English Advanced, which they may have considered as something like a fresh start.

    Did all the people ranked below you get a letter too?
    Yeah I don't know what to do, been so stressed lately. I can imagine people getting drop out letters from other subjects as well if not only Adv English.

    I asked a lot of the girls at my school on messenger and yes some of them who were ranked below me got one but another one of my friends she was ranked 107 and got one as well.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    Yeah I don't know what to do, been so stressed lately. I can imagine people getting drop out letters from other subjects as well if not only Adv English.

    I asked a lot of the girls at my school on messenger and yes some of them who were ranked below me got one but another one of my friends she was ranked 107 and got one as well.
    Holy shit, so a lot of ppl got dropped to standard?

    If you all complain in groups to the head teacher and demand that they keep the advanced class then yes it may work

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    Holy shit, so a lot of ppl got dropped to standard?

    If you all complain in groups to the head teacher and demand that they keep the advanced class then yes it may work
    The weird thing is all the letters came on the very last day of school which was yesterday. So I am not aware of every single person who got a drop out letter so we can't really complain in groups until the term starts.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    The weird thing is all the letters came on the very last day of school which was yesterday. So I am not aware of every single person who got a drop out letter so we can't really complain in groups until the term starts.
    So I'm assuming 50-70 got dropped?

    Like I said if you all complained as a large group then it's going to be much more effective than complaining by yourself

    Thing is, you need to somewhat show to the teachers at your school that you're dedicated and such and tell them (with others) how you're going to achieve a band 5-6 in the HSC

    Probably wanted to surprise attack everyone

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    I know the bottom 30 in my school get culled and put into standard - they just make a whole new class

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