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    Forced to drop to Standard by School

    I got a letter sent home today from my School this week saying that they have placed me in Standard at the beginning of Term 4.

    A bit of background. Yes I have treated Adv English like a total bludge subject unforunately in comparision to subjects such as Phys, Chem and Maths. For my yearly I only wrote up my essays and creative 2 days before the test and started memorising them from then on, which I regret. I ended up getting 60% for my yearly and my rank is 114/170.

    What should I do? Just agree with them and drop to Standard knowing that I could have done much better if I had put the hardwork in..
    Last edited by Bluee; 27 Sep 2016 at 2:15 AM.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Tell them getting a band 6 for english standard is really difficult and that you're better off getting a band 5 for english advanced than a band 6 for standard

    Show them that you're actually commmited. Tell them of your study techniques and the mistakes you learnt in the prelim year and how you're going to improve on it in the HSC

    Tell them if you flunk out in the first HSC assessment, they have a right to kick you out

    If none help and you are still desperate for it, go to your year advisor and have a chat about it

    If that still doesn't help have a chat to your school principal about the issue (and hope that your principal is a nice one, rather than a mean one who doesn't show consideration)

    If that still doesn't help, take the issue out of school and contact an organisation like DET (if you go to a public school)
    Last edited by eyeseeyou; 23 Sep 2016 at 11:02 PM.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    I got a letter sent home today from my School saying that they have placed me in Standard at the beginning of Term 4 without my own consent. I am feeling quite upset over this decision made without me knowing.

    Especially the fact I am receiving such a notice on the final day of the term without any earlier consultation and my own permission.

    A bit of background. Yes I have treated Adv English like a total bludge subject unforunately in comparision to subjects such as Phys, Chem and Maths. For my yearly I only wrote up my essays and creative 2 days before the test and started memorising them from then on, which I regret. I ended up getting 60% for my yearly and my rank is 114/170.

    In the letter the head teacher said stuff like "Your child is doing such a challenging course and believe they have been placed in the wrong course", "In order for him to meet the requirement of the HSC they will be placed in a Standard class" and "If this concern is not corrected it will have a very negative effect on their progress".

    What should I do? Just agree with them and drop to Standard knowing that I could have done much better if I had put the hardwork in..
    You should do advanced if you care about your hsc (and atar)

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by trecex1 View Post
    You should do advanced if you care about your hsc (and atar)
    You just don't get I am being forced to drop down to Standard if you had read my post.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    You just don't get I am being forced to drop down to Standard if you had read my post.
    If you're being forced then nothing you can do about it so what are you trying to ask? I literally just said you shouldn't do standard if it's possible.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    Tell them getting a band 6 for english standard is really difficult and that you're better off getting a band 5 for english advanced than a band 6 for standard
    Tried that and it didn't work..

    Show them that you're actually commmited. Tell them of your study techniques and the mistakes you learnt in the prelim year and how you're going to improve on it in the HSC
    Staright after getting back my exam results, she says I am intelligent in that I come up with interesting points and arguments in class but says I am not commited and don't put in effort. She told me to drop down instead and corresponded that to the Head Teacher.

    Tell them if you flunk out in the first HSC assessment, they have a right to kick you out

    If none help and you are still desperate for it, go to your year advisor and have a chat about it

    If that still doesn't help have a chat to your school principal about the issue (and hope that your principal is a nice one, rather than a mean one who doesn't show consideration)
    I will try the above.

    However I got sent a letter on the last day of school after coming back home basically just today saying that they already put me in the Standard class. Now there is 2 week gap becuase of the Holidays and I wont be able to properly consult with them. The next day I come back its start of HSC. It all just seems to have been all planned against me, even though this may not be the case.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    If that still doesn't help, take the issue out of school and contact an organisation like DET (if you go to a public school)
    Also ^

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by trecex1 View Post
    If you're being forced then nothing you can do about it so what are you trying to ask? I literally just said you shouldn't do standard if it's possible.
    I had like to be frank, your previous post wasn't helpful in terms of my situation and neither did you make it clear.

    I am well ware that there are more advantages of staying in Advanced than doing Standard. But this was not my point.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    What you should do is to avoid being relegated to Standard; if you quietly accept, then your goose is cooked. What you should do is, perhaps with your parent(s) approach the school/teacher to put up a good case for allowing you to retain your Advanced. Maybe you can explain why you were not faring too well before and to pledge to work a lot harder next time to justify your case. It also helps if you have been doing well in your other subjects. You are fighting for your interest. Your head teacher/school may be fighting for their own interest like making sure you do not pull down the school's performance in Advanced English. On the other hand, your Head teacher may be genuinely concerned for you, that you may sub-perform to the detriment of your ATAR, say. I suppose this is like the case of many students being "invited" to drop to General from 2U Maths - I myself often wondered about the wisdom of such practice.

    But you also have to be realistically sure, if given a second chance, you will be able to do much better. If you succeed in your appeal, you should take your Adv English more seriously.
    Last edited by Drongoski; 23 Sep 2016 at 11:51 PM.
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Drongoski View Post
    What you should do is to avoid being relegated to Standard; if you quietly accept, then your goose is cooked. What you should do is, perhaps with your parent(s) approach the school/teacher to put up a good case for allowing you to retain your Advanced. Maybe you can explain why you were not faring too well before and to pledge to work a lot harder next time to justify your case. It also helps if you have been doing well in your other subjects. You are fighting for your interest. Your head teacher/school may be fighting for their own interest like making sure you do not pull down the school's performance in Advanced English. On the other hand, your Head teacher may be genuinely concerned for you, that you may sub-perform to the detriment of your ATAR, say. I suppose this is like the case of many students being "invited" to drop to General from 2U Maths - I myself often wondered about the wisdom of such practice.

    But you also have to be realistically sure, if given a second chance, you will be able to do much better. If you succeed in your appeal, you should take your Adv English more seriously.
    Thanks for all the advice and I will try my best. Other than that I have to actually work hard in English from now. This letter was more of a wake up call for me. Which is good in a way.

    I just don't like how this was all done in surreptitious way on the school's part. Sending me a letter home on the last day of term of their intention to drop me to Standard. It all just seems perfectly planned so I can't go to them next week and argue about this. Its pathetic.

    Problem at my school is that nearly everyone chose to do Advanced and there are 8 classes in total. Whereas there are only 3 classes doing Standard. So I think they want most people to drop down to make the classes more even of each level.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    I am worried that they will keep holding me hostage and end up forcing me into Standard. I just feel it isn't right to force a student to drop a subject so suddenly without any prior consultation or permission from the student/parents themselves. They have no rights to infringe upon my education and HSC like this.

    I could have studied after coming back home today but was in no mood to do so because of this. This has been bugging me ever since.

    Now I don't know what to do and feel so hopeless.
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    I am worried that they will keep holding me hostage and end up forcing me into Standard. I just feel it isn't right to force a student to drop a subject so suddenly without any prior consultation or permission from the student/parents themselves. They have no rights to infringe upon my education and HSC like this.

    I could have studied after coming back home today but was in no mood to do so because of this. This has been bugging me ever since.

    Now I don't know what to do and feel so hopeless.
    They do it because they want their school results to look better and the more people that do worse, the more it drags everyone else down. They're just thinking of the rest of the cohort when they make their decision, but you might as well try to convince them.
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by trecex1 View Post
    If you're being forced then nothing you can do about it so what are you trying to ask? I literally just said you shouldn't do standard if it's possible.
    Your comment was pointless. Why are you asking what is he trying to ask when he literally says in the post his situation? Then you post a comment that doesn't answer those concerns at all.
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop21 View Post
    Your comment was pointless. Why are you asking what is he trying to ask when he literally says in the post his situation? Then you post a comment that doesn't answer those concerns at all.
    Uh, he asked whether he should agree with his school's decision, I thought it's pretty clear from my original comment that I'm saying he obviously shouldn't and try to do advanced? If he is being forced to then it isn't up to him, so yes there isn't really more to ask. He should do advanced, but if he can't then it's the end of the story. And please tell me how your comment isn't pointless?

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by trecex1 View Post
    Uh, he asked whether he should agree with his school's decision, I thought it's pretty clear from my original comment that I'm saying he obviously shouldn't and try to do advanced? If he is being forced to then it isn't up to him, so yes there isn't really more to ask. He should do advanced, but if he can't then it's the end of the story. And please tell me how your comment isn't pointless?
    Me saying whether I should agree with the school's decision was intended to be rhetorical. However you did not understand this. I was asking what should I do in terms of staying in Advanced. I don't think it was clear enough for you.

    Stop trying to spin what you meant. I am sure you had good intentions but either way what you said is pointless in terms of my situation.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by pikachu975 View Post
    They do it because they want their school results to look better and the more people that do worse, the more it drags everyone else down. They're just thinking of the rest of the cohort when they make their decision, but you might as well try to convince them.
    ^this

    Basically you need to show commitment to learning and prove to them that by trying harder, you'll do well

    Some schools give 2 craps about their school and how one student will drag the rest down and some schools don't care at all but they are more considerate and want to give students the chance to sit the course in school

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    ^this

    Basically you need to show commitment to learning and prove to them that by trying harder, you'll do well

    Some schools give 2 craps about their school and how one student will drag the rest down and some schools don't care at all but they are more considerate and want to give students the chance to sit the course in school
    Sounds right becuase our school is one of the top public schools in the state besides all the selective schools. From what you said Schools don't seem to be concerned about the wellbeing and interests of the individual students themselves.

    They can't bully me into droping down like this. I am in Advanced becuase I got a High in Yr 10 and they put me into it, let alone I got recommended into it by my teacher from last year. Its not my fault entirely that I am doing it.

    If they were concerned about students like me dragging everyone down than they shouldn't have put us into Advanced in the first place prior to Yr 11.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    Sounds right becuase our school is one of the top public schools in the state besides all the selective schools. From what you said Schools don't seem to be concerned about the wellbeing and interests of the individual students themselves.

    They can't bully me into droping down like this. I am in Advanced becuase I got a High in Yr 10 and they put me into it, let alone I got recommended into it by my teacher from last year. Its not my fault entirely that I am doing it.

    If they were concerned about students like me dragging everyone down than they shouldn't have put us into Advanced in the first place prior to Yr 11.
    how many ppl got dropped from advanced to standard

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    One thing I am not getting from here, like isn't the school breaking any kind of rule when their forcing me to drop? Wouldn't I be able to get support from the Board of Studies or even the Department of Education to reverse this decision?

    Isn't Advanced onsidered an entirely different course from Standard, just as how Physics is a different course from Biology? Wouldn't I need to sign a drop out form with my stage head teacher at school in order to change from Standard to Advanced as they are two different subjects? I realistically don't know how they can force me to drop.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    Sounds right becuase our school is one of the top public schools in the state besides all the selective schools. From what you said Schools don't seem to be concerned about the wellbeing and interests of the individual students themselves.

    They can't bully me into droping down like this. I am in Advanced becuase I got a High in Yr 10 and they put me into it, let alone I got recommended into it by my teacher from last year. Its not my fault entirely that I am doing it.

    If they were concerned about students like me dragging everyone down than they shouldn't have put us into Advanced in the first place prior to Yr 11.
    I said some and vice versa

    But yeah if it's affecting you mentally, some school would care and some won't

    Assuming you go to a school where the teachers care about the cohort average, this is what I'd do (I'm assuming for yr 12 all the classes do the same texts)

    Every week dedicate some time either before school or after school with the top english students in your school where they teach you and help you out with essays and creatives and such and by doing so you will improve your english marks through editing, re-editing and putting in more effort

    Furthermore, as a group you will discuss ideas and such and you will all know how to improve from each other

    Only problem is that it requires commitment from other students in order to make it work

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeseeyou View Post
    how many ppl got dropped from advanced to standard
    The thing with our school is that it is competitive. Alot of people are aware of the benefits of staying in Advanced than to drop down to Standard.

    So I honestly don't know of anyone who has actually dropped yet.
    Last edited by Bluee; 24 Sep 2016 at 11:36 AM.

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    One thing I am not getting from here, like isn't the school breaking any kind of rule when their forcing me to drop? Wouldn't I be able to get support from the Board of Studies or even the Department of Education to reverse this decision?

    Isn't Advanced onsidered an entirely different course from Standard, just as how Physics is a different course from Biology? Wouldn't I need to sign a drop out form with my stage head teacher at school in order to change from Standard to Advanced as they are two different subjects? I realistically don't know how they can force me to drop.
    IDK what the rule is but I know for senior classes, since classes are optional (e.g. english advanced) the teachers have the power to do whatever they want to the students. I don't think the boardofstudies handles the issue of people not wanting to get the subjects they are desperate for but it's the schools that do however if the issue is brought up to the principal (and you've given strong points on why you should do the english advanced course) and it hasn't been resolved in your favour, you may take it up to the DET

    Not really, in both there's the AOS and 3 modules however English advanced isn't that much more difficult than standard (other than that the texts are slightly harder and you do shakespeare)

    No, I think they can drop you out as long as they have reasoning to do so and they've given you the chance to sit the course in school (like how you did in yr 11)

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluee View Post
    The thing with out school is that it is competitive. Alot of people are aware of the benefits of staying in Advanced than to drop down to Standard.

    So I honestly dont of anyone who has actually dropped yet.
    Since your rank is 114/170 I'm assuming that 46 people got dropped

    If a number of people complain (i.e. 10 or more) then they might keep the class but IDK what's gonna happen

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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    As an aside, and hopefully a timely reminder: those of you currently in Year 10 - take your Prelim year work next year seriously. I have read many a time posts on Bored suggesting Yr 11 is a bludge year, and to enjoy yourself while you can before you embark on your HSC year. Work hard in year 11, try to enjoy your work - but whatever you do, don't take things too easy. But I'm not suggesting you work 24/7 with no life. Not at all. Combine work with play. Learn to develop a healthy routine and discipline that will set you up for a more purposeful and successful future. Try to avoid having to say later: I wish I had done this or done that etc etc.

    Enough sermon for a day!
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    Re: Forced to drop to Standard by School

    Quote Originally Posted by trecex1 View Post
    Uh, he asked whether he should agree with his school's decision, I thought it's pretty clear from my original comment that I'm saying he obviously shouldn't and try to do advanced? If he is being forced to then it isn't up to him, so yes there isn't really more to ask. He should do advanced, but if he can't then it's the end of the story. And please tell me how your comment isn't pointless?
    Hahaha. You serious right now? You've come into OP's thread, and your answer is "If he is being forced to then it isn't up to him", AND you're saying "end of story".

    OP is clearly upset over having to drop to standard, you would understand that from reading his post, so obviously we can assume he's wanting to know what he can do to stay in advanced. We can ALSO assume because of this that he is trying to do advanced if he can. HENCE why you're comment is pointless. Are you seeing it now?
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