Private school students scoop scholarships. BIG surprise, huh?

[MediterraneanM]

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The majority of people commenting in this thread do not begrudge those fortunate enough to attend private institutions.

You guys are mistaking comments from some highlighting the discrepancies , as Ali stated it: "comparative advantage" as being a fact.

That fact is not the fault of the private school students. Noone in the right mind would suggest that.

I would have to agree with the suggestion that if every other variable was the same, then one would indeed BENEFIT from attending a private school to maximise their ENTER (whether the difference be 10 ENTER marks or 0.5).. still a benefit when applying to courses.

[SmRandmAzn]

Originally Posted by qwerthey

I know this for a fact. Quoted for truth.



Absolutely correct.



Not quite, kids in private schools are no different in intelligence, than kids in public schools. The difference are the scholarship students.

Wasn't it just a few years ago, that FOUR students from Glen Waverly Secondary scored 99.95? Surely that's case in point. No one can be certain of the relative advantages or disadvantages of going to private school, however, results over the years have shown that 99.95 is achievable from either bracket.

For the record, I have been to a private school for 9 out of my 13 years of schooling, and private schooling, especially for boys schools isn't as easy-going as you'd think. They are countless commitments to school functions, community service is a given, and 5-6 hours of sport OUTSIDE of school hours per week. To each his or her own. Private school teachers are generally no different from public school teachers. Some are amazing, some are depressingly bad.

Who knows what difference to your ENTER, a private or public education can have? I do know that excuses and bitterness towards 'those damn private snobs', is hardly justifiable. It's like comparing apples and oranges, you can try but it just leads to confusion, colour-blindness and a fruity mess.

Peace out.

perhaps I used the word "smart" far too loosely, I also don't believe in private school students having higher "intelligence", whatever that entails (yes, perhaps maybe except those super high scoring scholarship students). I really can't comment on private school life as I haven't gone to one, but it seems somewhat more "co-curricular"

Yeah I agree that there shouldn't be snobbery against private school students, and it's not like they're uncommon, what with 1/3 of the student population?

Yes I'm aware of Glen Waverly having 4 99.95 scoring students recently, but Glen Waverly has a history and reputation of being a high performing government school, with a ridiculously small and shrinking school zone due to demand. I have heard of people purposely buying houses or using "borrowed" addresses nearby to get into the Glen Waverly school zone. I have also heard of students being kicked out due to poor academic performance, essentially making it a somewhat semi selective school (not sure on this point though). The ethnicity of the nearby population (and coincidentally, also of the students who got 99.95) probably has something to do with it as well. Also, I remember reading that those students studied at lunchtimes together. At smaller government schools (Glen Waverly is massive) this is not as useful, due to not many people that dedicated or up to that high standard

Of course, it is possible for students from any government school to high marks, but I do believe (although I obviously can't prove it) that a high performing student who goes to a small government school will have a much harder time than if that student went to a high performing private school. Not only is there the disadvantage of lack of competition, there is a disadvantage in actual mark calculation, due to the weak cohort. At high performing schools the external exam marks will be higher, and thus SAC marks will be adjusted accordingly. I'm no expert on SS calculation, but it is my understanding that being in a strong cohort will give you an advantage when it comes to final SS calculation.

edit-> I think I completely ignored the point of this thread...if private school students get 99.95, then yes, they should get scholarships, it's not the Uni's fault that private school students get 99.95

[MediterraneanM]

Originally Posted by SmRandmAzn

Glen Waverly has a history and reputation of being a high performing government school, with a ridiculously small and shrinking school zone due to demand. I have heard of people purposely buying houses or using "borrowed" addresses nearby to get into the Glen Waverly school zone.

Same thing happening around McKinnon (because I know people who actually did this), and Balwayn.

Paying high rent or buying an expensive house in the zones probably works out more economical for parents with a number of children to educate.

[SmRandmAzn]

Originally Posted by MediterraneanM

Same thing happening around McKinnon (because I know people who actually did this), and Balwayn.

Paying high rent or buying an expensive house in the zones probably works out more economical for parents with a number of children to educate.

That kind of gives them the effect of being a private school doesn't it? Attracting families who really care about their children's academics and are willing to pay, instead of just going to their random local government school. Inevitably more of these kids will care about their academics (and score higher in the VCE).

[MediterraneanM]

Originally Posted by SmRandmAzn

That kind of gives them the effect of being a private school doesn't it? Attracting families who really care about their children's academics and are willing to pay, instead of just going to their random local government school. Inevitably more of these kids will care about their academics (and score higher in the VCE).

Certainly does.

Not only relatively cheaper to educate number of children, but has the added bonus of increased capital gains over the years you hold onto the propery.

Problems are:
- finding vacancies in the zone;
- finding the funding to purchase in such a high valued market area.

[SylvesterBr]

Originally Posted by SmRandmAzn

Attracting families who really care about their children's academics and are willing to pay, instead of just going to their random local government school.

It's nice to know that all families are able to afford private schooling.

[qwerthey]

Have a cry. VCE rewards smart work, hard work and intelligence. Socio-economic status cannot and will not, in any case, supersede these funadmental aspects of success. Perhaps throw in, even a bit of luck. There's no "secret training" given at private schools, those who succeed are those who deserve it, and those who get 99.95, private school or not, can have their achievements in no way diminished by others. They. Deserve. It.

"Big surprise" ? Check the school rankings again. Private schools aren't the highest ranked. Case in point. Government schools, Melbourne High, Macrobs, Bialik, all have occupied the top 3 spots in recent years. So go back to your excuses and self-pity at your "plight" of "discrimination" and "prejudice", but know this: if you don't work hard, there's a high chance that you won't perform as well as you desire, no matter what type of school you attend.

Such 'anti-discrimination' (against a majority) grates on my nerves. Enjoy your VCE next year, and I expect you'll be whining non-stop at the "unfairness" of it all if you don't get 99.95.

[mbfun17]

Originally Posted by qwerthey

Have a cry. VCE rewards smart work, hard work and intelligence. Socio-economic status cannot and will not, in any case, supersede these funadmental aspects of success. Perhaps throw in, even a bit of luck. There's no "secret training" given at private schools, those who succeed are those who deserve it, and those who get 99.95, private school or not, can have their achievements in no way diminished by others. They. Deserve. It.

"Big surprise" ? Check the school rankings again. Private schools aren't the highest ranked. Case in point. Government schools, Melbourne High, Macrobs, Bialik, all have occupied the top 3 spots in recent years. So go back to your excuses and self-pity at your "plight" of "discrimination" and "prejudice", but know this: if you don't work hard, there's a high chance that you won't perform as well as you desire, no matter what type of school you attend.

Such 'anti-discrimination' (against a majority) grates on my nerves. Enjoy your VCE next year, and I expect you'll be whining non-stop at the "unfairness" of it all if you don't get 99.95.

Yeh, I've checked the school ranikings at 2008 VCE Results Ranking, and sadly the private schools' 2008 VCE results are better!

[qwerthey]

Originally Posted by mbfun17

Yeh, I've checked the school ranikings at 2008 VCE Results Ranking, and sadly the private schools' 2008 VCE results are better!

Yet somehow, the top ranked school, Macrobs, is a government sanctioned institution. Not a private one. Perhaps this goes to show that if you gather smart people through a seletive school process, the results are better. Given that Macrobs is a GOVERNMENT school, surely they don't have the distinct and 'unfair' "advantages" of their private school counterparts. Yet they still beat EVERYONE in the state, including the private schools.

Given this fact, it is perhaps prudent to attribute VCE success to the intelligence of the student body rather than any 'private' advantages.

Feel free to challenge this. But please, people, write coherently, and actually try to make some fair and impartial arguments. Who knows, perhaps you'll convince me and others of the validity of your opinion.

[MediterraneanM]

Originally Posted by qwerthey

Have a cry. VCE rewards smart work, hard work and intelligence. Socio-economic status cannot and will not, in any case, supersede these funadmental aspects of success. Perhaps throw in, even a bit of luck. There's no "secret training" given at private schools, those who succeed are those who deserve it, and those who get 99.95, private school or not, can have their achievements in no way diminished by others. They. Deserve. It.

"Big surprise" ? Check the school rankings again. Private schools aren't the highest ranked. Case in point. Government schools, Melbourne High, Macrobs, Bialik, all have occupied the top 3 spots in recent years. So go back to your excuses and self-pity at your "plight" of "discrimination" and "prejudice", but know this: if you don't work hard, there's a high chance that you won't perform as well as you desire, no matter what type of school you attend.

Such 'anti-discrimination' (against a majority) grates on my nerves. Enjoy your VCE next year, and I expect you'll be whining non-stop at the "unfairness" of it all if you don't get 99.95.

How about reading the thread properly?

It is not a thread begruding results attained by private or public schools. It's a discussion on the 'comparative advantages' avail. at private institutions. Good luck to those who are able to attend such schools. It's great that they have more of a chance to realise their potential...which is what this thread is all about!!

[qwerthey]

Originally Posted by OliverHolmes

Private school students scoop scholarships | theage.com.au

Wow.

'Equitable access to education'?

A higher education system that is 'representative of the broad community'?

Isn't it refreshing to know that social stratification continues to be reproduced and confirmed by Victorian universities?

The message: if you want educational success, and scholarship chances, ensure you exhibit the appropriate (learned) cultural and social capital courtesy of a thoroughly inequitable secondary education system.

Otherwise - bad luck.

To all recent VCE graduates from public schools - how does it feel to be perpetually disadvantaged beyond your control? Fun, isn't it?

MediterraneanM, please read the first post again. Carefully. Notice anything in particular there? Sarcasm? Check. Not-so-subtle swipes at private schools? Check. Sarcasm again? Check. Just look at the vocabulary used. "Social stratification" ? Don't tell me you can't pick SOMETHING up from that? Given that you finished VCE last year, if you did VCE English, you'd have even studied how to analyse such pieces of writing.

Perhaps the nuance was a bit unfamiliar in the realms of the internet, but I believe that I have responded to the initial post directly and have not delved off on a tangent.

Feel free to ask me for clarification of what I mean if you're not convinced.

[MediterraneanM]

Originally Posted by qwerthey

MediterraneanM, please read the first post again. Carefully. Notice anything in particular there? Sarcasm? Check. Not-so-subtle swipes at private schools? Check. Sarcasm again? Check. Just look at the vocabulary used. "Social stratification" ? Don't tell me you can't pick SOMETHING up from that? Given that you finished VCE last year, if you did VCE English, you'd have even studied how to analyse such pieces of writing.

Perhaps the nuance was a bit unfamiliar in the realms of the internet, but I believe that I have responded to the initial post directly and have not delved off on a tangent.

Feel free to ask me for clarification of what I mean if you're not convinced.

Read my posts. I stated that the 'majority of people in this thread' do not begrudge. You highlight one persons message.

You also assume I completed VCE last year. Incorrect assumption. When people are putting forward intelligent propositions (e.g. those by Ali), your own sarcastic tones are out of place and unwarranted.

It is a fool who thinks that the quality of tuition and opportunities avail. at the average public school can bring the potential in a student re: ENTER score as much as private schools.

Keep putting your head in the sand. Send your kids to some crappy public school, and see if you sleep well about their opportunities to succeed. I bet if you have the money, you will choose a DECENT school for your children.

[qwerthey]

Sigh...now who's being antagonistic?

You've said that I'm highlighting one person's message. That person is the person who posted the first post, the creator of this thread.

We are all responding to this first post in this person's thread. I didn't respond to the other people in this thread in MY initial post, I responded to the thread creator's first post. Like. You're. Supposed. To.

If you don't agree with my opinions, no big deal, to each their own. However, implying that I'm responding incorrectly or off-topic. That, in itself, is incorrect.

Also, by telling me to "Keep putting (my) head in the sand.", it is YOU who is exhibiting provocative behaviour. And calling me a "fool" without clarifying your point of view? Surely you're just becoming rude.

It would seem that all that would warrant an "intelligent proposition" in your eyes, is an opinion congruent to your own. But let us continue this no further. I accept your point of view. Heck, I ATTEND a private school, but, my opinion is different, and as long as you can maintain the same respect that I have shown for you, without attacking or crying unfairness, I will leave it at that.

EDIT: I guess my wish for a true, unbiased appraisal of ideas and opinions and a battle of wits in a debating-like situation was merely an illusion of grandeur in the World Wide Web. How sad it is, that people simply do not listen. But merely scream.

[gcspsp]

Originally Posted by qwerthey

EDIT: I guess my wish for a true, unbiased appraisal of ideas and opinions and a battle of wits in a debating-like situation was merely an illusion of grandeur in the World Wide Web. How sad it is, that people simply do not listen. But merely scream.

Honey this isn't your school debating team...I guess you've just lost your innocence to the web. Don't worry it was bound to happen sometime.

[pet0006]

Those 2 public schools that are number one and three?
I go to number one.
Mac.rob. and we're only number one becuase we pass a bloody hard exam to get in. we're the top 3% of the state.
so you can't count us as 'public schools are going ok'
cos we're not! we're going shit! my school is so underfunded. half our computers dont work. we have no grounds. and we can't afford anything. all we have is our seven years at number one. and umpteen at number two

its not that people who go to a public school will get a lower ENTER, or wont get a 99.95. its just that private school pupils have more facilities, and more money. the private schools have the resources for extension classes/learning difficulties, and if you are good at something there are the facilities there to help you e.g. art, sport. you are able to pay for tutoring, and usually don't have money worries......
at public schools people seem to have more stuff going on. i dont know if its just me, but i've een to both public and private, and the private school kids live a very sheltered life. less distraction=higher score