Ranks and my final marks (1 Viewer)

[EMKsquared]

So im just curious how your ranks affect your final marks? I have a relative idea but am not completely sure. Say i am coming 2nd for a subject at around 80% with 3rd, 4th etc are relatively close. First has a big gap of about ~10-15%. Can i still get a band 6 mark in the HSC or will my rank not allow it? Say i get 95 in the HSC will i get a band 6 or no? Thanks

 

[BlueGas]

So im just curious how your ranks affect your final marks? I have a relative idea but am not completely sure. Say i am coming 2nd for a subject at around 80% with 3rd, 4th etc are relatively close. First has a big gap of about ~10-15%. Can i still get a band 6 mark in the HSC or will my rank not allow it? Say i get 95 in the HSC will i get a band 6 or no? Thanks

Depends on how well first and the people after you do in the exam. If say you do get 95 and first gets 96, then yeah you'll be getting a band 6. If you get 95, and he gets 80, then you probably won't get a band 6, unless someone other than who is coming first gets 90+, then you will still have a chance of getting that band 6.

 

[EMKsquared]

Say we both get low 90s, will i get a band 6 or will i be pushed down. Because i really wany to try and get a band 6 but if its practically impossible without getting a state rank im not sure i should put so much time.

 

[BlueGas]

If BOTH of you get low band 6, even as low as 91, then you will still get a band 6.



By the way, what do you mean by this? Do you mean it's practically impossible to get a band 6 if you don't state rank? If so, then that is not true.

Say we both get low 90s, will i get a band 6 or will i be pushed down. Because i really wany to try and get a band 6 but if its practically impossible without getting a state rank im not sure i should put so much time.

 

[EMKsquared]

No i just thought that due to the large gap that i wouldn't be able to up my mark unless i got an extremely good mark, such as a state rank

 

[BlueGas]

No i just thought that due to the large gap that i wouldn't be able to up my mark unless i got an extremely good mark, such as a state rank

What matters is the rank, not the mark. You can have a large gap of say 20% between you and first but if both of you do good then you can still get the band 6.

 

[InteGrand]

The internal marks do matter too (like the relative gaps between people). So being like 1% behind first in internal marks is in general better than being say 10% being first.

 

[D94]

What matters is the rank, not the mark. You can have a large gap of say 20% between you and first but if both of you do good then you can still get the band 6.

A 20% gap is huge, you would need all students to do well, not just 1st and 2nd, in order to reduce the effects of moderation. The mark is important, it determines the gap!

 

[BlueGas]

A 20% gap is huge, you would need all students to do well, not just 1st and 2nd, in order to reduce the effects of moderation. The mark is important, it determines the gap!

How does a 20% gap matter? The highest mark will still go to the 1st ranked person, and the 2nd highest mark will go to the 2nd, and so on. I don't see how it matters...

 

[D94]

How does a 20% gap matter? The highest mark will still go to the 1st ranked person, and the 2nd highest mark will go to the 2nd, and so on. I don't see how it matters...

No, this is completely incorrect. I implore you and anyone else who believes this to read the BOSTES information on moderation: http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/hsc-results/moderation.html

This is a common misconception.

Rank is completely unimportant unless you are first or last. At no stage does rank become a factor in the calculation of your moderated assessment mark.

The process of moderation works by adjusting the school mark of first to be equal to the highest exam mark. The converse for the student ranked last. Then the marks for all other ranks in between are adjusted based on the relative gaps between each student, not their rank. Being 1% away from first will yield a better adjusted mark than being 20% away from first.

The marks are adjusted not based on the individual exam marks, but the overall mean/average of the exam marks. When the moderation process is completed, the mean of the adjusted school marks are equal to the mean of the exam marks.

You can clearly see the exam marks were not just rearranged so first gets first, 2nd gets 2nd, 3rd gets 3rd etc.

In fact, the relationship is quadratic:

See how the gap between E and D is small, but the gap between D and C is large. This is for both the school assessment and moderated assessment marks. The relative gap sizes are maintained when the marks are adjusted.

Again, they did not just assigned 2nd rank with the 2nd highest exam mark etc. Your marks are indeed important. Whether the assessment you sat is of HSC standards is another issue.

 

[A1P]

Adding to D94's good explanation, note in the example how Total [Moderated Assessment Mark] = Total [Exam Mark].

What that means is Your HSC mark (being 50/50 of Exam + Moderated Assessment) is effectively
50/50 of your own Exam mark + a share of the Total [Exam Mark]
with the size of your share determined by your share of the Internal marks.

Therefore rank is only a simplistic indicator, what matters is your share proportion. 20% behind the next person up means a smaller share than 2% behind.
This also shows how the cohort's exam performance affects you & the cohort - all doing well gives a bigger Total [Exam Mark] to share around.

 

[EMKsquared]

So really, if you are behind first and get a really good mark, they will take a larger share of it? So lets take my 2 unit for example, i am 6th and averaging 85%, and ranks 3 tp 8 are doing about the same. But rank 1 and 2 are way ahead on like 95%. Now is it even possible for me to get a band 6 without the top 2 getting really high marks due to any marks I'm getting being given to them?

 

[A1P]

... due to any marks I'm getting being given to them?

Your marks being "given to them" works the same way as you yourself getting a share of others doing well getting high exam marks. On what ground can you presume you will be the one in the cohort doing exam exceptionally better and the rest don't?

If it turns out you can do the exam better than them it raises the question why the heck did you let 5 of them outrank you in schoolwork. If due to you being slack during the year then that's the price you pay.

 

[EMKsquared]

Ok so say we have 5 people on 93,91,88,85 and 83. All of them get relatively the same marks for HSC except the 85 person gets 95. Now will the 85 person get 90, or will they only get 87ish and everyone else gets pushed up with them?

 

[A1P]

Ok so say we have 5 people on 93,91,88,85 and 83. All of them get relatively the same marks for HSC except the 85 person gets 95. Now will the 85 person get 90, or will they only get 87ish and everyone else gets pushed up with them?

In this scenario the first ranked gets (93+95)/2 = 94
Last ranked gets (83+83)/2 = 83

The 85 gets (95 + 85*[93+91+88]/[91+88+85]) / 2 = ~91.3

Note the [93+91+88]/[91+88+85] moderation ratio is a close approximation way to illustrate. It is applied to the students in between i.e. except first & last ranked generally.

 

[EMKsquared]

Oh, ok so as long as no one goes worse than expected you should get 50% of either mark or higher depending on how good everyone went.

 

[D94]

So really, if you are behind first and get a really good mark, they will take a larger share of it? So lets take my 2 unit for example, i am 6th and averaging 85%, and ranks 3 tp 8 are doing about the same. But rank 1 and 2 are way ahead on like 95%. Now is it even possible for me to get a band 6 without the top 2 getting really high marks due to any marks I'm getting being given to them?

You can get a Band 6 even if the top 2 do relatively poorly. You can control the upper bound by getting that highest mark in the cohort, thereby raising the standard of your cohort to that level. Your marks aren't given to anyone.