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Thread: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

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    Question Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Hi,

    My daughter will be starting Year 5 in 2010, and has been going to SWOT shop for the last 3 years, taking Maths and English tutoring

    She's been going very well in English, however, with Maths, there appears to be no special inputs that we seem to get from SWOT shop. They do provide the questions etc however in my view the kids are not given any methodology for problem solving......

    In my search for alternate tutoring places I've been given some names - Pre Uni ; James An

    I'm sure many of you would have gone to similar such schools, and it would be great to get some of your views. What places would you all recommend. We are in the Carlingford area.

    Thanks a lot.

    AV

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by avataar View Post
    Hi,

    My daughter will be starting Year 5 in 2010, and has been going to SWOT shop for the last 3 years, taking Maths and English tutoring

    She's been going very well in English, however, with Maths, there appears to be no special inputs that we seem to get from SWOT shop. They do provide the questions etc however in my view the kids are not given any methodology for problem solving......

    In my search for alternate tutoring places I've been given some names - Pre Uni ; James An

    I'm sure many of you would have gone to similar such schools, and it would be great to get some of your views. What places would you all recommend. We are in the Carlingford area.

    Thanks a lot.

    AV
    If tutoring college fails to improve your daughter's maths skills, going to tutoring college isn't probably for your daughter because it sometimes fail to tailor the teaching method to your daughter's need. From my own experience, private tutoring or studying at home with appropriate texts may be the way to go.

    However, I must point out the benefit of attending James An or Pre-Uni in the fact that they give weekly or monthly sample Selective School tests which help students become familiar with the exam format. However, it's unfortunate that students never go back to those exams they did and fix up their mistakes. What's the point of doing a sample paper if you are not fixing up your mistakes?

    I strongly recommend getting past papers or books that your daughter can solve. Then repeat the questions that she got wrong. That seems like a primitive method of teaching but if you consider the nature of Selective School test, it's the best method in my opinion.

    For example, I taught my brother and other students for Selective School test and I would get sample past papers from the education webste & books and tell him to try one or two papers. From then, I knew where his strengths and weaknesses were. Then I got Accelerated Maths learning textbook and made him solve the questions of the topic that he lacked. Then I would get more past papers and make him do it and then I would go through the questions that he got wrong and make him try those questions again so that he remembers.

    EDIT: If you still want me to name the "best tutoring college for Selective School test" I would probably say James An. It's pretty well-known for its success in that field
    Last edited by lyounamu; 21 Dec 2009 at 1:19 PM.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    thanks, I do agree with much of what you say, one issue being kids dont take tutoring from parents too well. I'll try and work out a mix, tutoring and follow up at home, see how that goes.

    Can you elaborate a bit on James An, why you feel they are better tha others, is it the results, their class size, teachers???

    anyothers out there, feel free to write in.

    AV

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    James An is good. I used to go back when I was a fifth and sixth grader and they would give us tests every lesson, like 60 multiple choice questions each or something. And yeah I think this was for every subject, GA, maths, and English which was comprehension, nothing written.

    They gave results back the next lesson after doing the test, if memory serves me right. Class size varies on what subjects (when I went they were separate), but the rooms at James An in Campsie used to hold about 15-25 students.

    I also remember they gave us a free bag of hot chips once during a holiday course :P





    If you're thinking of tutoring your daughter yourself, you would probably end up buying her textbooks that aren't so relevant. Just probably.
    Last edited by CecilyMare; 21 Dec 2009 at 6:34 PM.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by avataar View Post
    Hi,

    My daughter will be starting Year 5 in 2010, and has been going to SWOT shop for the last 3 years, taking Maths and English tutoring

    She's been going very well in English, however, with Maths, there appears to be no special inputs that we seem to get from SWOT shop. They do provide the questions etc however in my view the kids are not given any methodology for problem solving......

    In my search for alternate tutoring places I've been given some names - Pre Uni ; James An

    I'm sure many of you would have gone to similar such schools, and it would be great to get some of your views. What places would you all recommend. We are in the Carlingford area.

    Thanks a lot.

    AV
    Swot Shop is not good for maths and is generally not worth it in my opinion. Although the teachers are good (for English), there is not enough content.

    I've found that Pre-Uni is better than James An, especially Pre-Uni maths. There are so many questions to do and they are so hard (because some of them are high-school level) that when you are used to them, the Selective maths tests are very easy. Pre-Uni has very good GA and the vocabulary lists, if completely learnt and understood, very much helps.

    The main goal of Pre-Uni is practice and I believe that is the most important thing for Selective School preparation. There is nothing worse than going to the Selective exam and be intimidated by the massive number of questions.

    I've found Pre-Uni to be the best out of all the coaching colleges I have tried prior to Selective, although it was not the only one I regularly went to. I think you should try several. Then you decide which one(s) you should stick to.

    Good luck to you and your daughter!

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by avataar View Post
    Hi,

    My daughter will be starting Year 5 in 2010, and has been going to SWOT shop for the last 3 years, taking Maths and English tutoring

    She's been going very well in English, however, with Maths, there appears to be no special inputs that we seem to get from SWOT shop. They do provide the questions etc however in my view the kids are not given any methodology for problem solving......

    AV
    Math is pretty much innate. However correct teaching methods can be of help. I think you need to look at one-on-one tutoring for a short time to diagnose the problems and the learning style of your kid.

    Also, try my assessment site Online Assessment Home where I have quality tests and selective school math trials. My system will mark, hight light weakness and give hints to best solve each hard question ... It is all free.

    If SWOT shops failed to help, relaxing and then one-on-one sessions would surely the solution. Have a go at my site and perhaps I could help with some diagnosis.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Mr Yee's tutoring place is the best. Over 50% of James Ruse's students are coached by this great man who resides in Campsie. If you don't believe me just ask 2 or 3 current James Ruse students at random, at least one of them will tell you that they've been to Mr Yee's tutoring place before and consequently easily succeded in the selective exam.

    He is also the cheapest, offering tutoring at bargain prices where any parent could afford.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by warezfan View Post
    Mr Yee's tutoring place is the best. Over 50% of James Ruse's students are coached by this great man who resides in Campsie. If you don't believe me just ask 2 or 3 current James Ruse students at random, at least one of them will tell you that they've been to Mr Yee's tutoring place before and consequently easily succeded in the selective exam.

    He is also the cheapest, offering tutoring at bargain prices where any parent could afford.
    The trouble is that evey coaching place says same thing as you did. Adding the total up you get 1000% of the students in JR come from those who make the claims. So obviously most must be liberal with truth (:

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by oasfree View Post
    The trouble is that evey coaching place says same thing as you did. Adding the total up you get 1000% of the students in JR come from those who make the claims. So obviously most must be liberal with truth (:
    When I was young I attended this great man's class. I know for a fact that everyone in that classroom made it into selective school with ease. Without him I would have never become this smart.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by warezfan View Post
    When I was young I attended this great man's class. I know for a fact that everyone in that classroom made it into selective school with ease. Without him I would have never become this smart.
    Now that is funny. After I read the SMH article, I think Mr Ye only takes the best students who pass his entrance test. But you claimed that you were not smart before, how did you get in? Even Mr Ye claims that his students are smart, not his teaching.

    I reckon Mr Ye is real smart. he keeps a low profile and would not expand his business to take in more students. if he takes in more of lower quality, less will gain selective school entry.

    Having smart students, he could just let them watch movie for the whole day and still get most of them to SS anyway. The fact that he could reach this level of trust with parents is amazing.

    I wish some one will try an experiment. Open up a college, charge very low fee, take only smartest students and let them play educational games and watch educational movies to see how many will get into SS.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    My cousin went to Mr Ye and he had an awful time there. As long as you pass the entrance test, you are guaranteed to go to selective anyway because the standards for entry are high. He just gives you paper after paper to do. No explanation, English is dismally poor.

    If you want to learn, you want someone who can help you explain things. To learn you need not just material, but to know how to get something right. Mr Ye won't do that.
    My cousin went to Scholani Education College for two years after Mr Ye and he was very confident at his new coaching place. He believes that it was SEC who helped him go to Baulkham Hills High because of the professional teachers and standards of teaching.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by oasfree View Post
    The trouble is that evey coaching place says same thing as you did. Adding the total up you get 1000% of the students in JR come from those who make the claims. So obviously most must be liberal with truth (:
    students do go to two or more coaching places, as it was the case with my grade.
    I went to Swot Shop for the Selective Program, and I guess it helped.
    I also went to English and Maths, and IMO Maths didn't help considerably much, especially Year7+ where they didn't even touch upon High School Maths. They do however provide the Maths Challenge Programs, which are the problem solving competitions.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by crowsnest View Post
    My cousin went to Mr Ye and he had an awful time there. As long as you pass the entrance test, you are guaranteed to go to selective anyway because the standards for entry are high. He just gives you paper after paper to do. No explanation, English is dismally poor.
    At least Mr Ye is honest about this. He told the reporter that it was the students andnot his teaching. It looks like he pushed the students like that infamous Chinese sport coach who rode a motorbike while forcing his runners to do a marathon each week and bashed them up if they refused. The Chinese government banned him around the year 2004? Otherwise his runners would have competed in the Beijing Olympics. People would not expect his English to be good anyway (as a retired teacher from China). I wonder if he hired an English teacher to teach English.

    The fact that many students go to 2 or more coaching places is disturbing. They are easily exploited by greedy colleges who fool the parents on regular basis with their trial tests. One kid I know who could not even get a distinction in UNSW math competition got 95% from his SS test math trial. PreUni ASAT was clearly a fake. Most of kids going to PreUni got low marks for the ASAT at the middle of the year. Then at the one near end of the year, they were coached to the test to get ridiculously high marks to fool parents that their endless trials are effective. When it comes to the real test, it will be all about the same. Perhaps those who are coached intensively would get 3%-5% advantage assuming that the kids are of similar intelligence and hard working attitude.

    The coaching industry has changed over the years. It started out in Sydney with people working from their garages. But eventually colleges like James An and PreUni outcompeted the little ones. Only special operators like Mr Ye or Truong who have a special strategy and stick within their own ethnic communities could compete. They had to move away from the garage model but they did not have to become big like ABC, James An or PreUni.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    THe point is that he doesn't teach you anything. All he does is give you paper after paper to do. He won't teach you the concepts, or what's required in the answer. My cousin was coming home with answers to questions saying "answer in full-sentence" starting with the word "Because...."

    He "teaches" the english and maths himself. There is no writing or general ability. But the acceptance tests' standards are very high, and thus most are able to get into selective anyway. I think many of his students also go to another coaching college (this was the case with my cousin's class)

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by crowsnest View Post
    THe point is that he doesn't teach you anything. All he does is give you paper after paper to do. He won't teach you the concepts, or what's required in the answer. My cousin was coming home with answers to questions saying "answer in full-sentence" starting with the word "Because...."

    He "teaches" the english and maths himself. There is no writing or general ability. But the acceptance tests' standards are very high, and thus most are able to get into selective anyway. I think many of his students also go to another coaching college (this was the case with my cousin's class)
    Hey perhaps I should start a business! But hold on a moment, I am the kind of person who wants to explain to the absolute truth (like Plato's idea of perfect truth). That means I would probably waste all the time and fail to make any money.

    Seriously, if he teaches English himself, he is really gamed! All other tutors partnered or hired Aussies to teach English (even though they don't want to). Yes, Asian parents could be quite mad sending kids to 2-3 coaching places! I know OC students getting one-on-one in English, regular coaching at a big college, endless trials and many friday nights before the SS test at a friend's house to get all unsolved problems explained by a Uni student. With so much going on, there is no way to tell who is primarily responsible for the kid's tutoring (and SS test success or failure).

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Mr Yee + Pre Uni = Guaranteed success!

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by warezfan View Post
    Mr Yee + Pre Uni = Guaranteed success!
    How about self-learning as the ultimate success? I wonder how kids go through years of coaching and slip every time they stop. When you feed stuff to kids in a ready made fashion, they no longer feel the need to research. Coaching is supposed to behelping kids through some difficult stages of their learning, not a bandage for most of their school years. Some kids go from grade 2 - 12. That's 10 years of their lives on crutches. What will happen after the crutches are taken off by University time or outside in real life?

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Aristotle was a child of Plato's academy, without tutoring we wouldn't even know who is.

    For me this issue is simple. For any parents who care about their children's well being, then tutoring is a must. Mr Yee is a national hero who is producing the next Aristotle with cheap cheap rates.

    Mrs He, the 60 year old grandmother in Hurstville is also amazing. She charges $55 for 6 hours of tutoring providing lunch and free child care. These immigrants deserves the Australian of the year for their passion and dedication. Maybe in another few months there will be people interviewing her as well. I know many things.
    Last edited by warezfan; 1 Apr 2010 at 9:26 PM.

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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by oasfree View Post
    I wonder if (Mr Ye) hired an English teacher to teach English.
    Most probably.

    The fact that many students go to 2 or more coaching places is disturbing.
    Haha I did that.

    The coaching industry has changed over the years. It started out in Sydney with people working from their garages. But eventually colleges like James An and PreUni outcompeted the little ones. Only special operators like Mr Ye or Truong who have a special strategy and stick within their own ethnic communities could compete. They had to move away from the garage model but they did not have to become big like ABC, James An or PreUni.
    ABC's nowhere near as big as James An or Pre Uni. And it sucks. I've worked there LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by oasfree View Post
    How about self-learning as the ultimate success?
    Unfortunately you can't really self-learn that well for the Selective. All you can do to prepare for it is to do trial papers, which you cannot obtain heaps of by yourself.

    I wonder how kids go through years of coaching and slip every time they stop. When you feed stuff to kids in a ready made fashion, they no longer feel the need to research. Coaching is supposed to behelping kids through some difficult stages of their learning, not a bandage for most of their school years. Some kids go from grade 2 - 12. That's 10 years of their lives on crutches. What will happen after the crutches are taken off by University time or outside in real life?
    Shit happens unless they're extremely resilient.


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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    imo opinion the kid should be disciplined and ready to learn if you even consider putting them in a tutor. from my own observations of kids at my tutor and also martial arts classes, i see that the ones who constantly get low marks / scolded at are the ones who just play around and dont understand the seriousness of a situation. i would suggest a tutor with small classes where the class will not be too disruptive
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    Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by t00l View Post
    imo opinion the kid should be disciplined and ready to learn if you even consider putting them in a tutor. from my own observations of kids at my tutor and also martial arts classes, i see that the ones who constantly get low marks / scolded at are the ones who just play around and dont understand the seriousness of a situation. i would suggest a tutor with small classes where the class will not be too disruptive
    i agree. Parents tend to throw their kids into large tuition classes of 20-30 odd.. i treated it as a joke.. since they were Saturdays (grr) and well... when you have a class of 30, it tends to have a disruptive and 'festive' ambience
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    Thumbs down Re: Best Tutoring Colleges for Year 5/6 and Selective School test

    Quote Originally Posted by crowsnest View Post
    THe point is that he doesn't teach you anything. All he does is give you paper after paper to do. He won't teach you the concepts, or what's required in the answer. My cousin was coming home with answers to questions saying "answer in full-sentence" starting with the word "Because...."

    He "teaches" the english and maths himself. There is no writing or general ability. But the acceptance tests' standards are very high, and thus most are able to get into selective anyway. I think many of his students also go to another coaching college (this was the case with my cousin's class)
    I am currently going to Mr Ye's classes STTC and WEMG so I know how it is. For STTC, We come in, chat and talk, then Mr Ye comes and gives us our tests. We have 3 subjects. Maths, English and GA. I must admit though, Mr Ye's English isn't really that good and some questions are incorrectly worded but you can't blame him, he isn't from an English backgrouand.

    The test must be done very quickly, like in the selective test. This is great training for the real test once it comes. After finishing the test, we have a short 10 minute break before marking each other's work, then we copy our incorrect questions down fo review at home. After all this, Mr Ye explains all the 'tricky' questions for half an hour.

    In WEMG, we have multiple rounds. Speeding, where we do 25 simple maths questions in a minute and a half, spelling, where we get tested on 10 words, English, where we receive our homework booklets and do some English, then the last round, GA. Before English, we have a 20 minute writing lesson learning a new type of writing each week. Mr Ye has really helped me. In Year 3 I was an average student. Strangely, I passed the entry test which wasn't that hard and gradually I improved until now I am the top in my school in English and math s and GA and writing.

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