13 year old girl stoned to death in Somalia

[Cookie182]

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http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/...560735918.html

AN ISLAMIST rebel administration in Somalia ordered that a girl, 13, be stoned to death for adultery after the child's father reported that she was raped by three men.

Amnesty International said the al-Shabab militia, which controls the city of Kismayo, arranged for 50 men to stone Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow in front of about 1000 spectators. A truck laden with stones was brought to the stadium for the killing. Amnesty said the girl struggled with her captors and had to be forcibly carried into the stadium. Amnesty said: "Inside the stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to the killing attempted to save her life, and shot dead a boy who was a bystander."

The girl's father told Amnesty that when he tried to report her rape to the militia the child was accused by the administration of adultery and detained.

None of the men accused of the rape was arrested. The girl was earlier reported by witnesses as being 23 years old.
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I find this extremely sad.

[veloc1ty]

I listened to an interview with one of the spectators on BBC last night and was glad to hear that the crowd of 1000 didn't condone it and would've tried to stop them if the militia didn't have guns. The way articles I read had been worded made the crowd seem like active participants in some sort of sport...

[Cookie182]

Originally Posted by veloc1ty

I listened to an interview with one of the spectators on BBC last night and was glad to hear that the crowd of 1000 didn't condone it and would've tried to stop them if the militia didn't have guns. The way articles I read had been worded made the crowd seem like active participants in some sort of sport...

I know that's how i was reading the articles. Seriously though, holding it in a stadium. What are they Roman's at the Coliseum?

[newmz89]

This is sad, so in the end her dad trying to do the right thing by her brought about her death ?

[Nebuchanezzar]

Awful.

[Cookie182]

Originally Posted by newmz89

This is sad, so in the end her dad trying to do the right thing by her brought about her death ?

Yes. I find it terribly hard to comprehend from both a legal and moral viewpoint, how a little girl who has already been raped shifts from a victim to a criminal. I find it alarming how she can then be put to death. I'm not prejudice against Islam at all (good mate is Islamic) but I do study our common law legal system, which gives me great difficulty understanding Sharia:

Could some1 with greater knowledge then me on the topic answer-

1) Does this legal system (I understand here this may not be straight Sharia as it's under a fundamentalist regime) have a set criminal code, in the same way we have the Crimes Act?
2) When proving a criminal offence, is it also a requirement under Sharia to prove beyond any reasonable doubt the Actus Reus and the corresponding Mens Rea? If so, how in this case did the defendant have either?
3) Is there a presumption of innocence or guilt?
4) Does the death sentence of a minor break any International Law?

Or is this form of law incomprehensable to somebody who is agnostic/atheist?

[Nebuchanezzar]

You'd imagine that amongst those that follow Sharia law, a minority would condone this, yes/no?

[veloc1ty]

Ah, here's more info, including some transcript from the interview I heard: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7708169.stm

[Scissors]

Originally Posted by Cookie182

Yes. If find it terribly hard to comprehend from both a legal and moral viewpoint, how a little girl who has already been raped shifts from a victim to a criminal. I then find it alarming how she can then be put to death. I'm not prejudice against Islam at all (good mate is Islamic) but I do study our common law legal system, which gives me great difficulty understanding Sharia:

Could some1 with greater knowledge then me on the topic answer-

1) Does this legal system (I understand here this may not be straight Sharia as it's under a fundamentalist regime) have a set criminal code, in the same way we have the Crimes Act?
2) When proving a criminal offence, is it also a requirement under Sharia to prove beyond any reasonable doubt the Actus Reus and the corresponding Mens Rea? If so, how in this case did the defendant have either?
3) Is there a presumption of innocence or guilt?
4) Does the death sentence of a minor break any International Law?

Or is this form of law incomprehensable to somebody who is agnostic/atheist?

Sharia law is based on the Quran. The Quran is the law, the Quran is the court, the Quran is the judge and the jury.

I don't think there's really a structure in place per se. It basically runs off the Quran.

[Cookie182]

Originally Posted by Scissors

Sharia law is based on the Quran. The Quran is the law, the Quran is the court, the Quran is the judge and the jury.

I don't think there's really a structure in place per se. It basically runs off the Quran.

So in other words, no matter how good I am at the study of Law or how much I question this, it will be impossible for me to comprehend?

[Scissors]

Originally Posted by Cookie182

So in other words, no matter how good I am at the study of Law or how much I question this, it will be impossible for me to comprehend?

Read the Quran, and get yourself a good, unbiased commentary on the Quran, and that's basically it. That's the only way you can comprehend it. However, there are some areas where scholars have needed to create laws to fit contemporary society.

[Cookie182]

Originally Posted by Scissors

Read the Quran, and get yourself a good, unbiased commentary on the Quran, and that's basically it. That's the only way you can comprehend it. However, there are some areas where scholars have needed to create laws to fit contemporary society.

Does this event sadden you? What is your view?

[Cookie182]

It appears then that Sharia lacks discretion which is a major difference with our criminal law.

[Scissors]

Originally Posted by Cookie182

Does this event sadden you? What is your view?

Well, to be honest, I can't feel sadness for somebody that I don't personally know. Call me heartless, but I really couldn't give a fuck because there are much worse things happening in the world.

That said, things like this do disgust me. These Muslim countries are behind the times. They rely on God to grant them fortune and to give them a smooth life, and make no attempt to better their lives themselves.

I personally don't think the Quran should be taken literally, but obviously, some governments do.

[SurferNerd]

Originally Posted by Scissors

Well, to be honest, I can't feel sadness for somebody that I don't personally know. Call me heartless, but I really couldn't give a fuck because there are much worse things happening in the world.

That said, things like this do disgust me. These Muslim countries are behind the times. They rely on God to grant them fortune and to give them a smooth life, and make no attempt to better their lives themselves.

I personally don't think the Quran should be taken literally, but obviously, some governments do.

Hmm, i agree to an extent. I guess because we live in a society which feels so distant from such acts, it is hard to even empathise. But i do think it's very sad, something I'd expect to see in some ancient film or Xena/Hercules.

What i don't get with this system of law is even if it is heavily religious/based on 'morals', how do they justify VICTIMLESS crimes (she was sentenced to death officially for sex outside marriage) with the death penalty? Now I know we have victimless crimes here- i.e. personal drug consumption eg but the fine is petty not the bloody d.p!

Shouldn't any system of Criminal Law seek to provide remedy to society for a harmful act performed against it? I know that no legal system is perfect, and this can lead to an argument of what is crime, but crimes such murder, theft, terrorism, RAPE, fraud all pose a threat to somebody else's personal and economic liberty and hence as a majority we seek to enforce against this- hence the purpose of the C. Law. In our system, CL is a form of Public Law as is Constitutional law etc The Gov steps in only whether it is a matter deemed necessary as harm to the wider population (in general). Can somebody tell me from a RATIONAL not moral/religious standpoint, how sex outside of marriage can be justified as a major harm to society and hence is deservable of the death penalty?

I mean, thinking in terms of our own system here, at most it seems like a private law issue. If over there, and it does appear to be, marriage is a fully legally binding contract, then if a husband is dissatisfied after his wife was unfaithful, he should be able to sue for breach and receive a pecuniary remedy. In the case that a woman sleeps with another man when she was already 'promised' but not yet married, and it was the husband's reasonable assumption that this was the case and as a direct result he suffered great detriment, then why doesn't he seek an equitable remedy like promissory estoppel? This should all apply in reverse as well, in the case that a husband is unfaithful to his wife.

I mean receiving $$$ after all is surely better then having some1 brutally murdered?

My 2 cents worth.