So you think you want a motorcycle?

[Graney]

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Similar questions come up every couple of months, so I thought I'd throw this out there. Post anything I've missed/mistakes, I'll edit the OP and credit you.

New riders FAQ

How do I get my licence?

Check the website of your relevant state licencing authority.

NSW- Learner rider licence

At present in NSW, you have to undertake a 2 day practical rider training course, cost is roughly ~$60.

After completing the course, there is the rider knowledge test to be completed at the RTA, which is the same as the car learners test, but with a few additional questions.

Which motorcycles can I ride?

Most states are now moving to a system where learner and provisional riders are allowed to ride motorcycles up to 660cc capacity, subject to a 150kw/tonne limit.

After a spate of deaths in the early 90's, the highest powered 250cc 2-stroke motorcycles were banned for all learner and provisional riders in most states. This system is referred to as the LAMs (Learner approved motorcycle) scheme.

All 250cc 4-strokes are learner legal in every state.

Learner legal motorcycles for NSW are listed here-
Approved motorcycles for novice riders

All 250cc motorcycles that are not specified as banned on that page are learner legal. This includes all 4-strokes, CBR250, ZX2R, FZR250 etc...

All motorcycles up to 660cc that are learner legal currently are specified on the list.

Can I ride a 600cc motocycle that isn't on the list?

No.

If I buy a 600cc sportsbike and fit it with a power restrictor to bring the power down to 150kw/tonne, can I ride it on my L's?

No. There have been a few exceptions out on the roads, notable examples of learners with R6's which say LAM's on the rego papers. The RTA is a paper pushing buearcracy. They don't make exceptions or give consideration but they do make mistakes. It's generally accepted that R6's with LAMs rego are a mistake, and it is not RTA policy to issue exceptions. Don't count on it.

What do I look for when buying a used motorcycle?

Here is a basic guide

Netrider - Connecting motorcycle and motorbike riders in Australia. News, Forums, Links, Classifieds, Articles, Events Calendar, Merchandise, and more...

It's really best to get an expert opinion when buying any used vehicle and no, your brother/mate/uncle who "knows a bit about bikes" doesn't count.

I’m thinking of buying a scooter.

You probably shouldn’t.

The advantages of a scooter are that they're easy to ride, and pretty handy for carrying stuff as they generally have good underseat storage.

People who don’t know about bikes often perceive scooters as safer. The opposite is true. It’s really easy to lose the front on them in the wet. I know from experience.

The tyres on them are generally rubbish. The tyre companies invest far more in RD into proper motorcycle tyres. Scooter tyres are generally cheap econo rubbish with no grip.

Small wheels handle worse in all sorts of ways, they're unstable.

Suspension is generally crap.

Weight distribution and frame design are far from ideal. I defer to riet;

Originally Posted by riet

Hi i am an engineer. There is nothing surprising about it, the chassis geometry on a bike is MUCH better, full stop. having the gap for your legs means that the back half is only joined to the front by one section. This means that part has to be heavier and yet it will still flex a lot more than a frame that utilizes triangles. Little wheels are more affected by bumps in the road and such. Seriously, small bikes are MUCH better.

Seriously, get a little 250cc motorcycle, CB250, GN250, something along those lines. They’re not hard to ride at all with a little practice and it may save your life. I’m not talking about high performance handling, I’m referring to the need for basic handling and braking ability in the real world, which a scooter just doesn’t have. A bike will keep grip on loose gravel or wet roads where a scooter won't. Scooters are dangerous.

Should I buy a CBR250/ZXR250/FZR250?

This brings us onto grey imports. All ZXR250/ZX2R, whatever you care to call them, and all FZR250's are grey imports. They were never officially imported, and there is no official support for parts or servicing from the manufacturers. Most CBR250's are grey imports.

Most greys have been sitting in storage in japan for a decade before being loaded onto a boat and transported to Australia. Sitting unused for years rots bikes, and the transport across the ocean doesn't do them any favors either. Chronically dodgy electrics are one of the more common faults caused by prolonged exposure to the elements.

In the late 90's, Honda Australia saw these flooding into the country as grey imports, and fearing for their brand image with new riders, decided to officially import. Late model CBR's may or may not be official Australian imports.

If you must have one, the CBR is the one to get as it has official parts and support from honda australia.

All these bikes are getting long in the tooth. Even the latest imports were manufactured more than ten years ago. Most on the road are more like 20 years old. Keep in mind when shopping, that as far as ADR's are concerned, a vehicle only comes into existence when it is first registered in Australia.

This means, if a private importer brings a 1987 CBR250 into the country in 2009, it will have a compliance plate stamped with 2009. They can tart it up a new paint job, and it is completely legal for them to advertise and sell it as a 2009 model. It happens constantly, on the private market too. Check the headstock where the manufacturer will have imprinted the date of manufacture, seperate from the compliance plate.

Although many people have had good fun with these, you'd be wise to avoid them. They're a complex engine, they're getting very old, they've all been thrashed, crashed and poorly maintained. Caveat emptor.

They're also not fast and nothing special to ride. Anyone who thinks they’re special hasn’t ridden many bikes.

Should I buy a CBR125?

Dear god no.

Should I buy an NSR150?

Honda Australia issued a warning shortly after these were released that riders should avoid riding at speeds of 100km/h or more for a sustained period or seizures will occur.

Which motorcycle should I buy then?

The standard recommendation for all new riders is to get something unfaired, because if you drop a CBR, a complete set of fairings goes for like $1500 or something ridiculous. Even a standing drop at 0km/h can break fairings and it does happen.

Dirt bikes stand up great to abuse, and are the most fun things to ride around town. That's what I'd get. Something along the lines of XR, KLR, XT etc...

If you want a cheap, reliable, basic roady to get some miles up, before you buy something cool, CB250, GN250, XV250 are all fine. Easiest to learn on, most easy to ride and best value for money. You’ll probably get bored of it and want something more in a month though.

If you want something a bit sporty, GPX, ZZR, across, yamaha zeal, suzuki bandit (strongly recommended), balius, hornet 250.

VTR's are probably the best all-round 250 ever made (not quite as good as spada's, but the spada's are old now). I'd be stoked to own one, and I've been on my full licence for years.

I’m too fat for a 250cc, I need a LAM’s bike.

Look at DR650, DRZ-400sm. Get a supermotard. More flickable/rideable than anything. The best motards will pass superbikes on a tight enough road. Some of them aren't far behind in the straights, at least until you hit 200km/h. You will mono it. You will cut sick with some stoppies.

Take a DRZ-400sm for a test ride. You’ll be an instant convert.

GS500, ER5 are basic, reliable and satisfying workhorses.

Google XJ600, Zephyr 550. Both would be awesome learner bikes that'll keep you happy for a long time, if you can find a nice one.

A big trail bike, with regular rims, but grippy road tires, is 90% as fun as a motard. Any big traily is a great road bike.

Keep in mind, you'll be paying ~$400 extra a year for any bike over 300cc, due to greenslip scaling in NSW. Big bikes are more expensive than cars to register. Is it worth it?

Which is the fastest fully sick learner bike? Is it the CBR250?

The one with the fastest rider.

Most CBR's are too old and worn out.

On paper racing, the larger learner legal bikes should kill the CBR. Power figures are similar, but a 600cc single typically has over twice the torque of the screamer 250 4-strokes.

I've ridden em' all, and my pick would be one of the learner legal 600 trallies, TTR600, DR650, XR650 etc... Yes traillies look daggy, but they are fast, they mono and they stoppie. With good road tyres fitted, they’re also faster through a set of bends than most road bikes.

Strongly recommended is the SZR660. I owned one and it was a piece of pure, uncompromising, italian race-bred exotica.

I reckon an RG250 (the fastest of the non-banned strokers) would beat a CBR. An RZ250 can easily be fitted with a 350 kit (many examples on the secondhand market already are), and then you have 60+ hp in a lightweight frame. You'll be struggling to keep the front down.

RVF/VFR400's come highly recommended as performance bikes. 400cc V4's with mad torque. RVF and VFR are two different models. Fundamentally the same, there's about a 2hp difference between them which means one is learner legal and one is not. The learner legal ones are often advertised for $8000. For a twenty year old bike. Good bike if you win lotto.

I want a cruiser.

You’re beyond help.

[staticsiscool]

what if i want an aprillia rx550? (i think thats its name)

[Graney]

Buy one?

[staticsiscool]

no but would it be a good idea in your opinion

[Graney]

I'm going to assume you're serious and give my serious response, which is no.

They're a genuine race bike with lights. They're insanely expensive and maintenance intensive. Unless you're a professional racer, there are cheaper, less maintenance intensive bikes that will still perform well beyond your abilities.

I assume you're talking about the dirt 550 and not the motard? The professional riders who are reviewers for Aus dirt bike trader said they're all for more power, but it was way too much, an experience in constant terror.

[quik.]

If it is a race bred motard its servicing schedule will be measured in hours not km, keep that in mind.

Good writeup Graney, I would probably add the cost for taking the computer test to the L licence bit at the top.

Also some restrictions are legit, the new Suzuki SV and gladius are examples of this if I'm remembering correctly.

Maybe 'Should I buy an NSR150?' should be more for 2 strokes in general? I think they all have issues regarding highway riding, not 100% sure about this though.

[staticsiscool]

Just tricking, i already knew that, just making sure you knew what you were on about. But yeah good write up.

[sam04u]

Hey I want to ride a motor vehicle which is fast, requires support to stand whilst stationery, and leaves the rider exposed.

What would you recommend?

[Graney]

Originally Posted by quik.

Good writeup Graney, I would probably add the cost for taking the computer test to the L licence bit at the top.

cbf, if someone else looks it up I might add it. Since this will be stickied for the forseeable future, and such information is subject to revision, it'll go out of date.

Originally Posted by quik.

Also some restrictions are legit, the new Suzuki SV and gladius are examples of this if I'm remembering correctly.

You're right, as well as the hyosung 650 of course. They're on the list however. I'll edit the OP to make it clear that the unrestricted and the restricted versions of these bikes are distinct versions, you can't convert a bike sold unrestricted to a restricted version and have it be learner legal. You can derestrict a restricted bike, but that lies in a legal grey area, especially regarding insurance.

Originally Posted by quik.

Maybe 'Should I buy an NSR150?' should be more for 2 strokes in general? I think they all have issues regarding highway riding, not 100% sure about this though.

This is true, but I don't think all 2-strokes are so bad. The NSR is just the worst. Most of the others are either not learner legal, classics, or you'd figure out pretty quickly on riding an RS125 that it wasn't meant for the highway.

People did tour on RD400s and suzuki T500s back in the day. The suzuki GT750 "waterbottle" is a legendary touring bike.

[Azamakumar]

Gearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.



Also:

(NSW):
Learners course: $78
Learners test: $36
Learners permit: $20


as of march 09

[Ben Netanyahu]

What have you got against the Honda CBR 135R? Is it just the expense if you drop it?

[yuri_gagarin]

this isnt really the appropriate thread for that

on another note

i want to get a bike now

i have an 05 TTR-250 and i got bored of it after 3yrs on the farm. Its slow. If i put some road tyres on it and rego it, will i do for a while or will i get even more bored of it? I should be able to sell it for ~$4000. that would get me an old across or something gay. Worth it?
Or sell and take out loan and get new ninja or something?

[Graney]

Originally Posted by Ben Netanyahu

What have you got against the Honda CBR 135R? Is it just the expense if you drop it?

Value for money mainly. If you can get one cheap used it might be okay. If it were less than $2000 new it would be okay. It's a tarted up postie bike for $5000. You can get a yamaha scorpio for less, or a CBF250 for about the same. Proper road bikes that are capable of so much more than the CBR125.

Putting aside how the bike is new, as a long term ownership prospect, 125cc engines don't last. There's a reason you don't see postie's with 100'000km's.

These engines are built to last a few years of normal running. You'll start experiencing significant top-end wear within a few years, especially if you regularly rev out to 11'000rpm. Seems kind of a silly machine to buy, when for less you can get a scorpio or CBF250 which you can expect to easily give 10+ years of reliable motoring.

There is no argument in favour of the CBR125. There is no reason to buy one, ever. In every respect it is a significantly worse machine than the alternatives. Arguably the worst motorcycle currently for sale on the Australian market. I'm sure there are worse chinese scooters, but they don't cost $5000.

[SnowFox]

Originally Posted by Azamakumar

Gearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.



Also:

(NSW):
Learners course: $78
Learners test: $36
Learners permit: $20


as of march 09

You would be lucky to get a booking for the course.

[Ben Netanyahu]

thanks for the advice graney.