Il congiuntivo/The subjunctive

s2ophie · 22 Jan 2004, 11:15 AM

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In the other thread, someone asked about 'il congiuntivo' and wanted some help so i thought i better fulfil my role as a moderator and help! So here goes!!
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The congiuntivo, or subjunctive mood is used to express opinion, uncertainty, possibility, personal feeling rather than facts. It conveys the point of view of the speaker in a way which is no forceful, but leaves the options open for other points of view.

The subjunctive is often used in clauses that depend from a verb which conveys these feelings and idea such as
credere
pensare
immaginare
sperare
volere

Usually these verbs are followed by che, which introduces the dependent clause (A dependent clause is a clause that cannot stand alone, that doesn't have a complete meanig on its own)

Here are some examples using the subjunctive

Penso che sia bello visitare altri paese
I think it is interesting to visit other countries

Penso che la vita in Australia sia pi� tranquila che in Italia
I think that life in Australia is quieter than life in italy

Penso che la cosa pi� bella sia entrare nell'atteggiamento
I think that the best thing might be to take on the attitude

Mi sembra che ci sia anche un proverbio...
I think there might be a proverb...

Credo che Roma abbiaun fascino speciale la notte
I think that Rome might have a special appeal at night

Non credo che si possa fumare
I don't think that one might be allowed to smoke

Non credo che si possa andare in treno
I don't think that one could go by train

Non mi pare che si possa ascoltare la radio
I don't think that one might listen to the radio

here are the sunjunctive forms of essere and avere:

essere:
io - sia
tu - sia
lui/lei/Lei - sia

noi - siamo
voi - siate
loro - siano

avere:
io - abbia
tu - abbia
lui/lei/Lei - abbia

noi - abbiamo
voi - abbiate
loro - abbiano
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Here is a website that probably makes more sense than i do!

http://www.aaresoft.com/italian/italian56.htm

and another:

http://www.abavagada.net/cgi-bin/voc...unctive%20Mood
_______________________________________________
Thats all for now... If you have any questions or more to add please post and also if there is some other grammar thing that you would like me to do something like this with, please ask because it forces me to dig up all my italian work and relearn things which i need to do before uni starts!

Ciao!

s2ophie · 23 Jan 2004, 5:28 PM

oh and another thing to note - if you can avvoid using the sunjunctive, do!

Instead of Penso che, use Secondo me (no subjunctive required!)

mei_ling03 · 27 Jan 2004, 4:39 PM

never use present subjunctive after 'se'

hmmm i sent grammatical notes which included il congiuntivo to this site and they still haven't posted it up!
lazy bum! hehehe

s2ophie · 29 Jan 2004, 5:00 PM

I'll try and get an admin to put an italian section on the main page and then i think they can be added

mei_ling03 · 3 Feb 2004, 3:21 PM

yeah that would be great. unfortunately our my computer is locked up in storage now so if i need to send the notes in again, it might take another 6 months lol.

off the top of my head, the following are what i recommend students to know thoroughly:
- present
- passato prossimo
- conditional
- gerund (not comulsary but VERY easy!)
- imperfect
- future perfect
- imperative

meh i'm sure there's more but i can't rememebr names! help me out!

notes:
should -> dovere
dovrei mangiare - i should eat, dovresti magiare - you should eat ecc...

i have been studying a lot -> studio molto, ho studiato molto

Kakie · 7 Feb 2004, 9:44 PM

NONONONO not ho studiato....
that means i have studied...past tense....!!!!
ok i NEED to know, if you say something like this...
saro` a bologna...(and you know what that means) how tthe hell do i say it!! aaaaaaaaaaaaah
heres that in context...
spero che l'anno prossimo andro` in italia x 10 giorni!!!! e vero!! e saro` a bologna, that means posso andare anche a ferrara

mei_ling03 · 9 Feb 2004, 12:04 PM

lol i know ho studiato is in past tense. to 'have been doing something" doesn't exist in italian so you use past or present instead.

you're probably right...maybe you say "staro' a bologna"?
spero che l'anno prossimo io vada in italia per 10 giorni.. staro' a bologna quindi POSSO andare anche a ferrara --> just wondering, does posso become io possa because the first part is not certain i.e. io vada

Soma · 4 Mar 2004, 3:36 PM

posso doesnt become possa
and a better word than essere or stare a bologna is rimanere

mei_ling03 · 4 Mar 2004, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soma
posso doesnt become possa
and a better word than essere or stare a bologna is rimanere

it doesn't? what does it become? i got possa straight out of a grammatical book.

Soma · 5 Mar 2004, 10:51 PM

no, possa is the subjunctive form but in that case potere remains in the indicative form.

mei_ling03 · 8 Mar 2004, 8:09 PM

lol oops i should read my past post before i comment..thought you were saying possa wasn't subjunctive! :P thanks for that clarification.. always had me wondering..

Kakie · 13 Mar 2004, 10:08 PM

just use future for everything...saves time worrying about subjunctive
soma, what are you doing this year???
cya guys
i loooove my uni course!!!

iambored · 14 Mar 2004, 12:09 AM

but you can impress the marker more if you use the subjunctive

yeah hey, uni is great so far!

Soma · 19 Mar 2004, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kakie
just use future for everything...saves time worrying about subjunctive
soma, what are you doing this year???
cya guys
i loooove my uni course!!!

B.Arts in Communication (Journalism) at UTS

1985guy · 28 Mar 2004, 10:34 AM

Is there a future form of the subjunctive or do u just use the present tense?

22 Jan 2004, 11:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
s2ophie ********** HSC: 2003 Gender: Undisclosed Location: . Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,207 Last Activity: 8 Apr 2006, 10:04 AM	Il congiuntivo/The subjunctive You can hide this advertisement by registering. In the other thread, someone asked about 'il congiuntivo' and wanted some help so i thought i better fulfil my role as a moderator and help! So here goes!! _______________________________________________ The congiuntivo, or subjunctive mood is used to express opinion, uncertainty, possibility, personal feeling rather than facts. It conveys the point of view of the speaker in a way which is no forceful, but leaves the options open for other points of view. The subjunctive is often used in clauses that depend from a verb which conveys these feelings and idea such as credere pensare immaginare sperare volere Usually these verbs are followed by che, which introduces the dependent clause (A dependent clause is a clause that cannot stand alone, that doesn't have a complete meanig on its own) Here are some examples using the subjunctive Penso che sia bello visitare altri paese I think it is interesting to visit other countries Penso che la vita in Australia sia pi� tranquila che in Italia I think that life in Australia is quieter than life in italy Penso che la cosa pi� bella sia entrare nell'atteggiamento I think that the best thing might be* to take on the attitude* Mi sembra che ci sia anche un proverbio... I think there might be* a proverb...* Credo che Roma abbiaun fascino speciale la notte I think that Rome might have* a special appeal at night* Non credo che si possa fumare I don't think that one might be* allowed to smoke* Non credo che si possa andare in treno I don't think that one could* go by train* Non mi pare che si possa ascoltare la radio I don't think that one might* listen to the radio* here are the sunjunctive forms of essere and avere: essere: io - sia tu - sia lui/lei/Lei - sia noi - siamo voi - siate loro - siano avere: io - abbia tu - abbia lui/lei/Lei - abbia noi - abbiamo voi - abbiate loro - abbiano _______________________________________________ Here is a website that probably makes more sense than i do! http://www.aaresoft.com/italian/italian56.htm and another: http://www.abavagada.net/cgi-bin/voc...unctive%20Mood _______________________________________________ Thats all for now... If you have any questions or more to add please post and also if there is some other grammar thing that you would like me to do something like this with, please ask because it forces me to dig up all my italian work and relearn things which i need to do before uni starts! Ciao!

3 Feb 2004, 3:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
mei_ling03 Ain't love grand. HSC: 2003 Gender: Female Location: Kingsford/Kensington Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 501 Last Activity: 25 Oct 2006, 5:19 PM	yeah that would be great. unfortunately our my computer is locked up in storage now so if i need to send the notes in again, it might take another 6 months lol. off the top of my head, the following are what i recommend students to know thoroughly: - present - passato prossimo - conditional - gerund (not comulsary but VERY easy!) - imperfect - future perfect - imperative meh i'm sure there's more but i can't rememebr names! help me out! notes: should -> dovere dovrei mangiare - i should eat, dovresti magiare - you should eat ecc... i have been studying a lot -> studio molto, ho studiato molto __________________ B Psychology @ UNSW: 3rd year. i'm getting old

7 Feb 2004, 9:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kakie Senior Member Location: trashy Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 208 Last Activity: 28 Dec 2004, 6:38 PM	NONONONO not ho studiato.... that means i have studied...past tense....!!!! ok i NEED to know, if you say something like this... saro` a bologna...(and you know what that means) how tthe hell do i say it!! aaaaaaaaaaaaah heres that in context... spero che l'anno prossimo andro` in italia x 10 giorni!!!! e vero!! e saro` a bologna, that means posso andare anche a ferrara __________________ Pink Underwears

9 Feb 2004, 12:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
mei_ling03 Ain't love grand. HSC: 2003 Gender: Female Location: Kingsford/Kensington Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 501 Last Activity: 25 Oct 2006, 5:19 PM	lol i know ho studiato is in past tense. to 'have been doing something" doesn't exist in italian so you use past or present instead. you're probably right...maybe you say "staro' a bologna"? spero che l'anno prossimo io vada in italia per 10 giorni.. staro' a bologna quindi POSSO andare anche a ferrara --> just wondering, does posso become io possa because the first part is not certain i.e. io vada __________________ B Psychology @ UNSW: 3rd year. i'm getting old

4 Mar 2004, 3:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
Soma Toney Starks Fanboy HSC: 2010 Gender: Male Location: Homocide Housing Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 861 Last Activity: 20 Dec 2008, 3:11 PM	posso doesnt become possa and a better word than essere or stare a bologna is rimanere __________________ Who's the knucklead wanting respect?

23 Jan 2004, 5:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
s2ophie ********** HSC: 2003 Gender: Undisclosed Location: . Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,207 Last Activity: 8 Apr 2006, 10:04 AM	oh and another thing to note - if you can avvoid using the sunjunctive, do! Instead of Penso che, use Secondo me (no subjunctive required!)

27 Jan 2004, 4:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
mei_ling03 Ain't love grand. HSC: 2003 Gender: Female Location: Kingsford/Kensington Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 501 Last Activity: 25 Oct 2006, 5:19 PM	never use present subjunctive after 'se' hmmm i sent grammatical notes which included il congiuntivo to this site and they still haven't posted it up! lazy bum! hehehe

29 Jan 2004, 5:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
s2ophie ********** HSC: 2003 Gender: Undisclosed Location: . Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,207 Last Activity: 8 Apr 2006, 10:04 AM	I'll try and get an admin to put an italian section on the main page and then i think they can be added

5 Mar 2004, 10:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Soma Toney Starks Fanboy HSC: 2010 Gender: Male Location: Homocide Housing Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 861 Last Activity: 20 Dec 2008, 3:11 PM	no, possa is the subjunctive form but in that case potere remains in the indicative form. __________________ Who's the knucklead wanting respect?

8 Mar 2004, 8:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
mei_ling03 Ain't love grand. HSC: 2003 Gender: Female Location: Kingsford/Kensington Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 501 Last Activity: 25 Oct 2006, 5:19 PM	lol oops i should read my past post before i comment..thought you were saying possa wasn't subjunctive! :P thanks for that clarification.. always had me wondering.. __________________ B Psychology @ UNSW: 3rd year. i'm getting old

13 Mar 2004, 10:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
Kakie Senior Member Location: trashy Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 208 Last Activity: 28 Dec 2004, 6:38 PM	just use future for everything...saves time worrying about subjunctive soma, what are you doing this year??? cya guys i loooove my uni course!!! __________________ Pink Underwears

14 Mar 2004, 12:09 AM	#13 (permalink)
iambored dum-di-dum HSC: 2003 Gender: Undisclosed Location: here Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 11,071 Last Activity: 25 Jun 2009, 9:34 AM	but you can impress the marker more if you use the subjunctive yeah hey, uni is great so far!

28 Mar 2004, 10:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
1985guy Assistant Member HSC: 2003 Gender: Male Location: concord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 93 Last Activity: 25 Sep 2008, 8:14 PM	Is there a future form of the subjunctive or do u just use the present tense?

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