Things you should know about universities, and choosing.

[poloktim]

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I've been receiving questions recently, on BOS and IRC, and they're normally about choosing a uni, and a degree. I have a feeling in my opinion (others might think totally different to the way I am) that a lot of HSC school leavers are a little confused about university itself.

Tips to choosing a degree at a university (this also goes for majors in degrees, such as Arts):
1). Load up the university webpage.
2). Open up the Course Handbook.
3). Load up the description of the degree you want to do.
4). Open up another browser and repeat steps 1-3 for each university and for each degree you're intending on doing which have similar attributes. (For example, you wish to study Computing, you could load up decriptions from the one university about IT degrees, Computer/Software Engineering degrees, Computer Science degrees, or Internet Science degrees. You can do the same for all the universities you're looking at studying the respective courses at.
5). Compare the courses of study. Decide which ones seem the most promising, and stick with those.
6). Look at the outlines for core subjects, and electives you might want to do, from each of these degrees/universities. These may help you make a more educated decision.
7). If possible consult the universities about these degrees. ALSO try to consult current students enrolled in the degrees.
8). Based on the Information given, you might decide that you'll include another degree in your pool to determine which one you want. If so, then add it and repeat step 6 for it.
9). Once you've made a decision on which degree to do, and where, alter your preferences.

Here is an important note:
University is not about getting a job. If you want a job, consult the newspaper on a Saturday, or seek.com.au or something. You go to university because you want to get an education about a chosen field that you could likely enter the workforce in. The reason this is important is because there are many people who'll choose a course of study at university having absolutely no interest in it, never getting an interest in it, only because of future job prospects. More often than not, these people fail.

Getting into USyd, UNSW, or ANU is not the most important thing in your life. Why would you choose such a university if you don't like the structure being offered? IF the structure/degree offered at USyd, UNSW or ANU is what you want, then by all means go for it. I recommend you do the degree you want, no matter where it is at. If it is not, and you're just wanting to get into a certain university, then chances are you'll get bored and dawdle in getting work completed.

Degrees, majors, minors, and even subjects are different at each university. The best advice I can give (and I was given) is ignore the name, or prestige of a university, and choose what's good for you. Ignore the job prospects, because an Honours looks nicer than a normal bachelor, and if you do what you want where you want, you'll have a better chance of getting one. If you have a BCompSc at UWS with Honours, you'll likely be preferred over someone with just a normal BCompSc anywhere else.

I hope this helps our future first-years make their choice.

[lukebennett]

very good post. very useful and it goes the whole way!!!!!! i had no trouble choosing a course and uni but this certainly would have helped if i had trouble.

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

i found the good unis guide a good source..
especially wat the grads think..
cos lik if they enjoyed it.. u will too.. hehe

i agree bout the job thing.. but gradlink website provides info about that..
informed decisions are good things..

[ilanda]

how do we know if we got into a uni? plz reply asap

[hipsta_jess]

well uh derr you wait til the uni offerings come out (I think the release date is Jan 19) and then either read it in the paper or online.

[poloktim]

Originally Posted by ilanda

how do we know if we got into a uni? plz reply asap

If you read your UAC guide the answer will be found. There are a few dates that universities release offers. These are normally in January. Since there's about a few weeks until then, you should ensure your preferences are really what you want.

[Lainee]

Originally Posted by poloktim

Here is an important note:
University is not about getting a job. If you want a job, consult the newspaper on a Saturday, or seek.com.au or something. You go to university because you want to get an education about a chosen field that you could likely enter the workforce in. The reason this is important is because there are many people who'll choose a course of study at university having absolutely no interest in it, never getting an interest in it, only because of future job prospects. More often than not, these people fail.

This startled me for a second when I was reading it. A primary concern for me would be job prospects once I graduate - a university degree for me is a pathway to a career. And if job prospects - projecting 5/6 years ahead - are tragic, chances are that I'd reconsider my other options. Can you clarify what you're saying here? Or am I wrong to think of future job prospects as criteria.

[poloktim]

Originally Posted by Lainee

This startled me for a second when I was reading it. A primary concern for me would be job prospects once I graduate - a university degree for me is a pathway to a career. And if job prospects - projecting 5/6 years ahead - are tragic, chances are that I'd reconsider my other options. Can you clarify what you're saying here? Or am I wrong to think of future job prospects as criteria.

Normally one's future job prospects are based on the degree they do in university. If you're interested in law, and do a law degree, normally you'd become a lawyer or judge; similarly, if you're interested in humanities, you'd normally get a job having something to do with that humanities field. Many people base their future jobs on the course they decide to do. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm hoping to do the same. I'm doing my degrees because I have a keen interest in both fields I'm studying, and I want to learn more.

What is not a good idea is when one chooses to study a degree/at a university for the main purpose of getting a job. That is a waste of three to five years. If you're not interested in the content, don't like the way the uni does things with the content, then you're best off going somewhere else and/or doing something else.

What I'm trying to say, and it's not very clear is that if you've not interest in studying your chosen field further, then don't go to university. If you've no interest in the field at all, don't study it. If you're not happy with the running of the course of study at a particular university, don't go there. Don't waste your time (since all you're doing is wasting your own time) doing something you don't want to do for a few years. You're on the starting line, jobs are on the finish line. Before you worry about the job, you need to get closer to it.

Note: those who start a course of study in a field/university because they couldn't get into their chosen field are different. They have the intention of getting into their field when they transfer, and hope to be doing it later on.

[Lainee]

That makes sense, though I'm not sure anyone would really do a course entirely because of the job that it leads to. I suppose there could be ('I'll be a doctor, sure!') but I doubt anyone is idiotic enough to choose a uni course that they're not interested in, just for the job that may come afterwards. I dunno, interest in the course/job should be one and the same. How can someone look forward to the job, but dislike the course?

[...]

Originally Posted by Lainee

That makes sense, though I'm not sure anyone would really do a course entirely because of the job that it leads to. I suppose there could be ('I'll be a doctor, sure!') but I doubt anyone is idiotic enough to choose a uni course that they're not interested in, just for the job that may come afterwards. I dunno, interest in the course/job should be one and the same. How can someone look forward to the job, but dislike the course?

i can assure you theres a lot of those ppl...some are on these forums too :P

just look at some of the posts

"how much do i earn once i graduate??"
"does this job get paid well??"

[LeftrightOut]

Originally Posted by Lainee

That makes sense, though I'm not sure anyone would really do a course entirely because of the job that it leads to. I suppose there could be ('I'll be a doctor, sure!') but I doubt anyone is idiotic enough to choose a uni course that they're not interested in, just for the job that may come afterwards. I dunno, interest in the course/job should be one and the same. How can someone look forward to the job, but dislike the course?

You'd be surprised, a lot of people rushed to do IT prior and during the dot com boom and when they graduated (after the crash) there was not only a depressed IT job market but also an oversupply of university qualified IT people because of the large intakes. This meant that those who were in it just for the jobs got a huge shock and those who actually enjoyed the field were willing to tough it out.

The IT sector is now stabilising a bit but all universities have recorded large drops in demand for IT courses since the crash as people have wised up that the employment situation is not very lucrative anymore. Indeed anyone doing IT now for just the job should think again as there are ads out there that are "junior" positions specifically asking for people with degrees and 3 years experience paying 25k a year, and there are literally hundreds to thousands of applicants for these. There are many factors that contributed to this situation but the end result is the same, people who picked IT for the money are stuffed to a large extent unless they have specialisations in other areas.

But that's just one example covering a very short period of time

[Lainee]

Originally Posted by Asquithian

In particualar for law. Don't do law 'for the sake of it' or because it pays well. You actually have to like the challenge otherwise your uni life will be a living hell for the next 5 or 6 years.

I can't think of anything I want to do more than law, so I don't think I'll lack the drive to get me through it - I love reading, meticulous research, formulating legal argument, public speaking...

I just also think of the practical side of the degree -- is it going to get me a job. Yes, I want an education, and yes I want something I will enjoy and excel in, but there's no point to a degree unless it leads somewhere. I want to know what I'd reasonably earn after graduation 1/5/10 years down the track, prospects for growth in the industry so that I can consider whether I have a good chance of succeeding.

[wizard]

Originally Posted by Lainee

I can't think of anything I want to do more than law, so I don't think I'll lack the drive to get me through it - I love reading, meticulous research, formulating legal argument, public speaking...

Sure you don't want to go to UQ Lainee?
You sound so much like my daughter I think the two of you would get on really well. Did you do Mock Trials? She did and her team did very well. I think that's what really got her seriously interested in Law. She loved the challenge of researching cases etc

[poloktim]

Originally Posted by Lainee

I just also think of the practical side of the degree -- is it going to get me a job. Yes, I want an education, and yes I want something I will enjoy and excel in, but there's no point to a degree unless it leads somewhere. I want to know what I'd reasonably earn after graduation 1/5/10 years down the track, prospects for growth in the industry so that I can consider whether I have a good chance of succeeding.

I'm very different here. I don't care where my degrees lead, I'm enjoying it now. In fact I have absolutely no clue what I'd want to do when I graduate from uni. I'll hopefully have a couple of degrees, to put in my resume, but what happens if I decide to do something totally different.

I know somebody who studied to become a primary school teacher. She absolutely loved the study of primary education, but when it came to graduation, she decided to persue a career that didn't require (or use) her degree. She loves where she's at now. So, it may end up that what you enjoy studying is not what you'll enjoy doing.

Basically what I tried to say was don't worry too much about job prospects. I've come into uni not knowing what I want to do, and I'm still unsure. If you enjoy what you do, and you know what you want to become, then bully to you! If you don't know what you want to become, but you're studying something you want to, then bully to you too!

I hope HSC kiddies enjoy their long break.

[Lainee]

Originally Posted by wizard

Sure you don't want to go to UQ Lainee?
You sound so much like my daughter I think the two of you would get on really well. Did you do Mock Trials? She did and her team did very well. I think that's what really got her seriously interested in Law. She loved the challenge of researching cases etc

That's University of Queensland? I doubt my parents would let me move all the way there! Tell her to come to USyd/UNSW - we could nerd out together.

Yeah, I did do Mock Trial. I was 2nd barrister. Great fun, although my team didn't do so well - witnesses kept forgetting their lines .

Basically what I tried to say was don't worry too much about job prospects. I've come into uni not knowing what I want to do, and I'm still unsure. If you enjoy what you do, and you know what you want to become, then bully to you! If you don't know what you want to become, but you're studying something you want to, then bully to you too!

That I agree with. I just like to prod ahead before I make any steps - I don't want to to waste time and money on a course that is only good for dinner table conversations. While people may claim attaining a broad field of knowledge is never a waste, I would like to see positive results first in a narrow field of study (steady job, good income, good future) before I decide I want to embark on further attainment of knowledge. My personal, and I think very practical, opinion.