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Thread: Section 2

  1. #26
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    Re: Fish?

    When I read the question I was SO tempted to return in kind an extended metaphor of my own in relation to JFK. The smartass in me was going "do it... do it... do it"
    I evetually settled by trying to fit as many puns in as I humanly could.
    "one finds it hard to CAST their attention away from..."
    "revisionists were looking for the big, juicy and often ellusive propaganda fish in the pool of facts"
    "these may be large obstacles for historians to TACKLE"
    "propaganda filled American society to the Bream (pronounced 'brim' it's a type of fish)

    There were a few others I've forgotten but, hey, you ask a stupid question...

  2. #27
    Paranoid Android Asheroth's Avatar
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    Re: Fish?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephabi
    When I read the question I was SO tempted to return in kind an extended metaphor of my own in relation to JFK. The smartass in me was going "do it... do it... do it"
    I evetually settled by trying to fit as many puns in as I humanly could.
    "one finds it hard to CAST their attention away from..."
    "revisionists were looking for the big, juicy and often ellusive propaganda fish in the pool of facts"
    "these may be large obstacles for historians to TACKLE"
    "propaganda filled American society to the Bream (pronounced 'brim' it's a type of fish)

    There were a few others I've forgotten but, hey, you ask a stupid question...
    NON-SERIOUS ATTEMPT F MINUS MINUS

    Dasphoebus: If you didn't talk about Carr himself, that's OK, as long as you analysed the quote. In fact I think giving a exposition of Carr of any length would have been a waste of time. Analysing the source without giving an account of the author would have been fine.
    And now we are one, in everlasting peace (we hope your rules and wisdom choke you)

  3. #28
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    Re: Fish?

    haha yes...
    I got my innuendo in there so i was happy. my case study was JFK and the Kennedy family had allowed Dallek to look at his health records because "they liked his tackle". mwahaha. yeh mine rambled alot and was lacking a good structure, but i found the first question easier to manage.

  4. #29
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    Re: Fish?

    aye -for q1 i was just wondering if it was expected to acknowledge that she was a post modernist - coz i sed her perception contrasted with that of post modernists...
    what did she say that implied she was :|?
    bit of a rough source i rekn ..
    Last edited by mikeyklim; 7 Nov 2006 at 10:16 PM.

  5. #30
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    Re: Appeasement

    Quote Originally Posted by p342i
    I do hope someone took up my tip for Delta Blues.

    [btw - what do you think of the question in the context of appeasement?]
    i thought the question was fairly general...it was ok for appeasement i suppose...but i don't know how they're going to discriminate between the essays
    i don't think my essay makes much sense! oh well

    just out of curiousity...which school do u go to?
    you seem to be doing all the same options my school is, even in ancient history (i've seen u in other threads...and i can tell you...u're big competition...hope the rest of ur school isn't like you!)

  6. #31
    Pastamancer dasphoebus's Avatar
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    Re: Fish?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyklim
    aye -for q1 i was just wondering if it was expected to acknowledge that she was a post modernist - coz i sed her perception contrasted with that of post modernists...
    what did she say that implied she was :|?
    bit of a rough source i rekn ..
    We're currently discussing that in the other thread. Tis a pickle, but I'd say the source sucked, however BOS would not have picked the "history is a science" bit if they didn't want us to say she was empiricist.

  7. #32
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    Re: Fish?

    She sort of said it was 'almost a science' and a way to find multiple, 'useable truths' - the 's' makes her post modernist.

    Look at Elton, Ranke and Windshuttle. All empiricists, all believe that through the correct methodologies one, absolute truth can be found.

    Basically:

    Empiricism = one truth.
    Relativism = many truths.
    Post Modernism = so many truths, it's impossible to get to one, hence, many 'useable truths'.

  8. #33
    XDXDXD DucKy::'s Avatar
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    Re: case study - wtf!?

    i ignored most of the quote, cept for the last two lines

    yeh, i did context affecting subjective interpretations

  9. #34
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    Re: case study - wtf!?

    the quote wasn't really regarding context was it, more the personal impositon on ones historical interpretation leading to discourse?

    and clendinned made a big point about the rising popularity of public history, i think if any, this was the main point abuot contextual influence.

    did any of you challenge trhe source directly, sure i highlighted differences and similarities with historians but also showed how Clendinned him/herself littered his perspective with the corruption of rhetoric (i didnt say corruption of rhetoric, something mroe suave)


    Edit: E. H. Carr

  10. #35
    Paranoid Android Asheroth's Avatar
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    Re: Fish?

    No, that doesn't work. She was discussing history as a whole, as a huge record of human achievement. That's what the 'useable truths' thing was referring to, so the plural just refers to the many records that we can extract truths from. Empiricist, in my view.
    And now we are one, in everlasting peace (we hope your rules and wisdom choke you)

  11. #36
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    Re: case study - wtf!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley P
    the facts are really not at all like the fish on the fishmonger's slab!

    they are like fish swimming about in a vast and sometimes inaccessible ocean... ♥


    words of wisdom from the BOS... sage.

    how the hell could you use that to discuss?!:burn: tacitus fished in the ocean of corruption, to catch his fish tiberius

    that was the most creative exam i've ever done!

    it's over!
    I hear you, thats gotta be the most interesting response on tacitus ive ever written (i did the same case study) lol o well, i recon i did ok hope so

  12. #37
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    Re: case study - wtf!?

    yeah i couldnt be screwed writing about the fishes eh.
    "history means interpretation" my whole essay was based on that one line.

  13. #38
    New Member pine-fresh's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Fish?

    I liked the fish. It seemed like an easier question than previous years and fit well with my case study - context, purpose, selectivity/omission of facts, etc.
    Did anyone else do the Historicity of Jesus Christ? I talked about the Radical debate and used about 7 historians.
    How long were your answers?? i only got 12 pages for that one...

  14. #39
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    Re: Fish?

    Ok, the question was straight forward, and so was the quote, but after talking to people, how many of you did heaps of linking throughout the essay to "fish". I just summarised the metaphor and spoke and historical speak, but everyone I talked to was bragging about how many fish they mentioned.
    Hehehe i used the quote not only in the second essay but in the first one .. heheh i was doing carr anyway ... it kinda worked.

  15. #40
    English / Law Bobness's Avatar
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    Re: case study - wtf!?

    Quote Originally Posted by DucKy::
    i ignored most of the quote, cept for the last two lines

    yeh, i did context affecting subjective interpretations
    please .. study chem!

    ok and hope you still ripped up history extension lolz. haha relativist/pomo (sort of) carr was the best <3
    Bachelor of Arts (English) / Bachelor of Laws II UNSW

    The intellect of man is forced to choose
    Perfection of the life, or of the work,
    And if it take the second must refuse
    A heavenly mansion, raging in the dark.
    William Butler Yeats
    The Choice

  16. #41
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    Re: case study - wtf!?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackal8
    the quote wasn't really regarding context was it, more the personal impositon on ones historical interpretation leading to discourse?

    and clendinned made a big point about the rising popularity of public history, i think if any, this was the main point abuot contextual influence.

    did any of you challenge trhe source directly, sure i highlighted differences and similarities with historians but also showed how Clendinned him/herself littered his perspective with the corruption of rhetoric (i didnt say corruption of rhetoric, something mroe suave)


    Edit: E. H. Carr

    so glad for the edit there, I was htinking...I must've really screwed this up, but more than that, Clendinnen was a guy? I hope they don't dock marks for being stupid enough to get genders wrong.

    And to the guy who started the thread and complained about Tacitus, thecase study wants you to all but ignore Tacitus' writing and focus on the historical opinions of Tacitus' writing....that's very hard to get your head around, or at least I've had difficulty with it, and all you need to know aboutTacitus is the context.



    I disputed the quote mostly because I hate my case study and researched hisotoriographers (as we shld call them in this forum at least) that agreed with eachother from different historical trainings and approached it differently...won't do well, but who cares

  17. #42
    English / Law Bobness's Avatar
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    Re: case study - wtf!?

    no i think we'll have to agree to disagree

    isn't historiography just another school of history and hence 'historiographers' are in essence historians?

    otherwise tacitus i looked at him for section 1 but i think i'd go crazy doing him as a case study. i mean only windschuttle could be worse .. or maybe marx
    Last edited by Bobness; 9 Nov 2006 at 4:19 PM.
    Bachelor of Arts (English) / Bachelor of Laws II UNSW

    The intellect of man is forced to choose
    Perfection of the life, or of the work,
    And if it take the second must refuse
    A heavenly mansion, raging in the dark.
    William Butler Yeats
    The Choice

  18. #43
    Junior Member Jessica_00's Avatar
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    Fishes?

    :rofl: Its so funny how people are bragging about how many fish analogies they mentioned. I'm first in my extention class and I can tell you now, fishes don't mean anything. You were suppose to take out the main issues of the source, not take it literally! Hahaha
    What you were suppose to do was draw out the purpose of historians and the methods in histriography and explain that relating to the nature of your chosen debate. That historians have methods of choosing facts like catching fish in a vast inaccesible ocean or like a fish slab, thus they can never achieve objectivity or be apart from their context - even if they intentionally do so or not. Thats the crux of the source, not...fish....
    Last edited by Jessica_00; 14 Nov 2006 at 12:15 PM.

  19. #44
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    Re: Fishes?

    I'm first in my class too! I think you're dead wrong! :-P The whole source was meant to be taken literally! Gosh, if you didn't talk about the way in which fisherman catch fish, well, you're screwed!

  20. #45
    English / Law Bobness's Avatar
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    Re: Fishes?

    Too much ego-inflation here. It means jack sh*t if you are top in your class, especially if you're in a 500+ ranked school. Look i don't mean to rain on your parade - and both of you are probably very smart - but don't use your rank to justify the fact that your interpretation is 'the best' or the only one that will score highly.

    Like i posted in another thread if you wanted to score the top TOP mark, you would have had to understand EH Carr's What is History? and how its actually

    "i.e. people say subjectivity (what the source refers to) when COME ON its more about how facts aren't "historical facts" until the historian uses them or that there is a "prcoess of attrition" before the past is recorded as facts - its in what is history? pg 12-13."

    Trust me on this as markers love you to show you actually understand the background and context of the provided text. Those who understood carl becker and his identity, aims+purposes in the 04 hsc scored the highest; my ex-tutor studied pomo/relativism in historiography and applied that to becker very well to place 2nd in the state. THAT is a fact, and i'm not saying its the only way, just basing on history lolz

    However, both of what you two have posted are fine. If you understood your case study well enough, the interpretation of the source needn't affect your marks drastically.
    Bachelor of Arts (English) / Bachelor of Laws II UNSW

    The intellect of man is forced to choose
    Perfection of the life, or of the work,
    And if it take the second must refuse
    A heavenly mansion, raging in the dark.
    William Butler Yeats
    The Choice

  21. #46
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    Re: Section 2

    oh yeah well i came first in james ruse. so you can suck my cock

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