Please help: UTS B. Vis Comm vs Billy Blue B. Applied Design (Communication)

[eloxquence]

I want to know which one is better...I never thought i'd get a good enough ATAR to get into UTS but I can get 5 bonus points which will get me in. However, I have been granted a conditional entry into Billy Blue and should definitely get in because I got well above the required ATAR.

I want to pursue graphic design as a career so which course would be better for me? I did both Art and D&T at school so thats not a problem.

[msh]

um hello???
how can you even compare the two?
one is a UNIVERSITY the other is a PRIVATE SCHOOL.
UTS is extremely SELECTIVE (the design degree UAI/ATAR cut-offs have been around 95), billy blue is OPEN AND ACCEPTS ANYONE WHO CAN AFFORD THE EXPENSIVE TUITION FEES.

No other creative design/arts degree in australia has a ATAR / UAI cut-off that parallels the competitiveness of a commerce or a pharmacy degree in Australia. None. Only UTS design.

If you think you are eligible (with an ATAR over 91 + band 6 in D&T) you should ABSOLUTELY go for it.

Look at the number of HSC leavers DIEING to get accepted at UTS vis comm on this forum as well as other mature age students in aus.

Also from my experience, some agencies DO care about where you studied.
Firstly it's a prestigious degree to graduate from.
UTS visual communication is ALWAYS a good news to hear from an employer's perspective.

Studying at a university opens up more doors for your personal pursuits in general.
An opportunity to study overseas.
An opportunity to undertake other subjects that match your intellectual pursuits.
" '' '' study further through postgraduate studies.

Graphic design these days is not a trades profession that just requires 'making a pretty picture' but a carefully researched, planned and thought out design process, which draws inspirations from backgrounds such as a psychologic, economic, social, cultural and anthropologic viewpoints. So a chance to study at uni would better accommodate this.

You should also consider COFA UNSW Design as well. COFA design is still a better option than billy blue!

Hope you get in! CONGRATS ON YOUR ATAR!

[MzBiiBii]

I want to know which one is better...I never thought i'd get a good enough ATAR to get into UTS but I can get 5 bonus points which will get me in. However, I have been granted a conditional entry into Billy Blue and should definitely get in because I got well above the required ATAR.

I want to pursue graphic design as a career so which course would be better for me? I did both Art and D&T at school so thats not a problem.

Congrats!!
That's what I wanted to do, But I missed out by 0.6
I say UTS for all the reasons the person above said

[msh]

Congrats!!
That's what I wanted to do, But I missed out by 0.6
I say UTS for all the reasons the person above said

you shouldn't give up either!

you haven't 'missed out' by 0.6 YET.

No one can predict the ATAR UAI cut-off for 2010, so don't give up your hope and make sure you APPLY. Put it as your first preference and see what happens.

Should you not get offered a place due to unfortunate circumstances, you can always TRANSFER from another design major at UTS or study design at UNSW COFA. (They are all great options)

Best of wishes to you

[MzBiiBii]

you shouldn't give up either!

you haven't 'missed out' by 0.6 YET.

No one can predict the ATAR UAI cut-off for 2010, so don't give up your hope and make sure you APPLY. Put it as your first preference and see what happens.

Should you not get offered a place due to unfortunate circumstances, you can always TRANSFER from another design major at UTS or study design at UNSW COFA. (They are all great options)

Best of wishes to you

thanks
Yeah, I've applied for B Design at COFA, The reason why I wanted to do Vis.Comm. SO badly was it was EXACTLY what I wanted...I think with B. Design it isn't so specific?

But I'm probably wrong

[eloxquence]

design at cofa is shit..they teach you all stupid things you dont need like pottery and jewellery making.


i guess ill have to consider it more closely, but billy blue does give more industry experience than UTS.

Billy blue has fee help so its not for only those who can afford it.

I'm still in two minds, hopefully more people might post here..but thanks for your input.

I still doubt i'll get in because obviously they'll choose the people who got the straight out ATAR rather than me who will need the bonus points..and that was me looking at the entry ATAR of 95.

This year it may be more...who knows.

[Takuto]

not true, the 5 bonus points are from high bands in related subjects right?

these are solid points unlike EAS, that is, you are more likely to get in than someone who has a higher raw ATAR without bonus points.

I don't think the cutoff will jump up that high at all (2 points). It probably will drop given past trends.

They just recently introduced bonus points in 2008 HSC, so cutoffs wouldn't be changing much now. I know the cutoffs changed dramatically from 2007 > 2008 because of that.

It should be dropping or stable now..

[herrypeter]

hey
eloxquence,
I am sure billy blue is cool college even me next year 2010,
I am going to study FUNDAMENTAL DESIGN, I advice you let go together there and we will see.


better to be there.

[msh]

design at cofa is shit..they teach you all stupid things you dont need like pottery and jewellery making.


i guess ill have to consider it more closely, but billy blue does give more industry experience than UTS.

Billy blue has fee help so its not for only those who can afford it.

I'm still in two minds, hopefully more people might post here..but thanks for your input.

I still doubt i'll get in because obviously they'll choose the people who got the straight out ATAR rather than me who will need the bonus points..and that was me looking at the entry ATAR of 95.

This year it may be more...who knows.

From my personal experience, prestige is never a hindrance. So going to UTS or UNSW would be a better choice than going to Billy blue. The name value of a private school like billy blue is relatively unknown and weak compared to the likes of UNSW or UTS.

UNSW Cofa design opts for an 'integrated' design degree which might not be such a bad idea looking at where design is headed in the future.
I'm not sure if billy blue would foster the notion of 'design thinking' like universities do. Most uni design students would be familiar with the term 'design thinking' and 'IDEO.' Design these days is NOT about being technical experts of photoshop and other softwares.

Here is what Design Institute of Australia - Design Professions > Education the Australian design union has to say about design education.

"In keeping with professional training currently available the DIA recommends FOUR years of tertiary design training to degree level."
Notice the 4 years, and only universities like UTS and UNSW offers a 4 years in Bachelor of Design.

[MzBiiBii]

If i didnt get v.comm at UTS
and i did a B. Design at COFA...can i do v.comm at that uni a few years later? or will i have to transfer uni's

[msh]

If i didnt get v.comm at UTS
and i did a B. Design at COFA...can i do v.comm at that uni a few years later? or will i have to transfer uni's

I think you'd have to apply through UAC again the year after... Yeah it'd be considered a transfer of university from UNSW to UTS.

From what I remember, transfer students are based on about 70% grades and 30% portfolio+interview.

I "THINK" it's easier to internally transfer within UTS Design major to another design major.
eg: The new B Design in photography or Industrial design (Assuming it will be lower than vis comm this year) and then transfer to> B Design in Visual Comm.
You should probably contact the university directly or go to their open days and ask)

So it MIGHT be better to go into another design major with a lower cut-off, and transfer a year later. I guess that would be competitive too, so you have to maintain high grades in the first year o your degree and apply.

[MzBiiBii]

I think you'd have to apply through UAC again the year after... Yeah it'd be considered a transfer of university from UNSW to UTS.

From what I remember, transfer students are based on about 70% grades and 30% portfolio+interview.

I "THINK" it's easier to internally transfer within UTS Design major to another design major.
eg: The new B Design in photography or Industrial design (Assuming it will be lower than vis comm this year) and then transfer to> B Design in Visual Comm.
You should probably contact the university directly or go to their open days and ask)

So it MIGHT be better to go into another design major with a lower cut-off, and transfer a year later. I guess that would be competitive too, so you have to maintain high grades in the first year o your degree and apply.

Thanks a billion! I wasn't aware of that course! I changed my preferences

Thanks!!!!

[guava5]

I did my hsc last year and was having confusion choosing between billy blue and uts exactly like eloquence-

I've been 'tryign to get a feel' of billy blue for quite a while- i went to the workshop, open days etc, and they do have a very professional and 'real world' sort of atmosphere.. and I think it is pretty prestigious in the design world, especially for an up-to-date companies.

Alot of the lecturers are also ex-uts teachers.. and what seems more appealing was their confession of having teachers that are still active designing rather than retired ones thus guaranteeing an up to date design demands. And from the workshop i attended that seems to be true. (I also went to a catc workshop, and trust me, having an old retired lecturer is realllyyy boring)

Because the requirement to get in was an interview and a portfolio, rather than an atar, it also demonstrates a more accurate way of a competitive selection- wouldn't you know then that the students that got in are all creative people, rather than mathematical brainiacs?

They also do emphasise alot on conceptual thinking; infact, it intimidated my survival a little ahah.

So, for those contemplating for next year, this is the pros and cons from my thoughts and perhaps opinions

Billy Blue:
-Fresh teachers
-Growing popularity and prestigious in the contemporary design world
-It's a collage dedicated to design..
-It gives out degrees (bachelor)
-Partnerships with the Swinburne university in melbourne and companies such as MTV
-Their website and printed ads look like a top notch designs lol
-All computers are the newest mac.. and I think its a requirement/recomendations for students too? (pro/con?)
-Depends on portfolio to get in
-It's expensive
-The place is rather small, although the interior is pretty cool (esp the graffiti wall), and north sydney is rather a hole..
-basically, it's a design forward college and seems impressive-

UTS:
-Awesome location (In the heart of city, alot of places to visit during breaks, convenient to find a job, close to usyd, etc)
-It's a university thus there will be alot of different clubs to join (this is somehow a huge pro for me haha)
-Also, this means that there will more (different/interesting) people to be-friended; not only the similar creative people but also law students etc for eg
-For companies that are not design-focused (or small random companies for eg) UTS may be preferred over billy blue since it will be more well known in general
-It is bigger than Billy Blue place-wise
-You can combine it with international studies which I believe, will give you many advantages
-The selection system depends on an ATAR mark rather than a portfolio (pro/cons?)
-It's reallyyy long; 4 years.. this is a major con, as apparently they teach from the very basics and spend alot of time on them as oppose to go through/condense them quickly like billy blue does- as a result apparently a lot of uts students transfer to billy blue according to the people i've asked and talked to
-This means you waste more time studying before finally working
-With HECS the fee is halved


Although in the end of the day, Uni/collages won't really determine how good you will be or how easily you will be employed as it really depends on your portfolio.

However, I ended up with choosing UTS mainly because of the convenience it gives me. (and I'm too lazy to make a proper portfolio just yet :P) However, I do wish someone will give me more information on billy blue as well :S

[pecky's lemon]

Surround yourself with intelligent people. Go to UTS. I can't believe people are considering Billy Blue over UTS. I know some Billy Blue grads that work the local Officeworks printers. gulp. At the end of the day though, a lot of it is self-directed and you can take any path u want

[geegables]

Well firstly I'm surprised with that post Guava 5 you ended up choosing UTS! It was very much bias towards Billy Blue. Now i don't know much about Billy Blue but I can correct some of the mistakes in your observations with UTS as most of your "pros" seemed to be more about having a social university experience.

- The UTS Design Faculty has long been regarded as one of the most prestigious design schools in Australia. Not only can this be proven by the ATAR marks which show how much demand is getting into the course but also recent developments in the faculty which have seen mentions in Business Week's Best Up and Coming Design Programmes in the World.

Not to mention Ultimo is going to be renovated in the next couple of years as Sydney's "Creative Industries Centre" which will have the UTS Design Faculty in the heart of more Design Offices.

- Industry Exposure - The ties between the UTS Viscom academics and the design industry is far too long to even mention here. In 2nd year students visit from a list of at least 40 design agencies in Sydney which is provided via the network of one of our lecturers. This includes:
Frost Design, Moon Design, DesignIsKinky, Eskimo Designs, Channel Ten, Debaser, The Glue Society etc:

In third year we undertake a 20day internship with a design agency so that we are exposed to 'real-life' design experience.

- 4 years vs. the crash course Billy Blue course - The difference is seen in the market place as we have found out in our interviews that although graduates of both course are more than competent in their design skills what sets them apart is that UTS graduates are able to conceptualise much stronger design ideas which essentially are the designs which get taken up with clients