CA Program - Ask questions, get answers! (new and improved)

[seremify007]

EBA211 results come out next Friday!

[lyounamu]

^OMG good luck everyone who did it!!! =)

what does it stand for btw? haha ><

[seremify007]

^OMG good luck everyone who did it!!! =)

what does it stand for btw? haha ><

Ethics and Business Application. It's the last exam before you become qualified.

... but then from 2014 onwards, it'll be replaced with some Capstone module instead.

I received an email from the Institute today going into detail of the changes to the program from 2013 which affect the technical modules and how they are taught/delivered.

Important changes to the Chartered Accountants Program from 2013

The Institute is delighted to announce that a new world-class Chartered Accountants Program will be introduced from 2013, which will be delivered jointly with the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants.

As a current candidate, please read the following information about these changes and how you can start planning your pathway for completing the Program.

What will change?
Based on feedback from candidates, employers and members, the new Program will move to a more flexible, modern blend of face-to-face and online learning. Using a new sophisticated Online Learning Space, you will have greater access to your learning resources and experience more interactive activities, so you can access your learning material from anywhere, at any time during the module. The Program’s new format is also designed to help you more effectively balance your work and study commitments.

Greater flexibility will also be embedded into the four technical modules with the current focus session format to be replaced with new optional face-to-face and virtual classrooms. Meanwhile, the emphasis on face-to-face learning will shift into a new Capstone module, which will replace the current Ethics & Business Application (EBA) module. This Capstone will be offered from 2014 and will require you to attend three mandatory workshops to develop your professional skills, utilising real company case studies.

What do you need to do?
To ensure you have ample time to plan your studies, please refer to the Transitional Schedule and 2013-15 Timetable, which will help you identify your pathway for completing the Program and entry to membership. While reviewing the schedule, it may help you to refer to the Comparison Chart, which outlines the key differences between the current and new Programs.

To ensure the transition is a seamless process, the current technical modules will be offered until the end of 2012. In addition, the EBA module will be offered twice in 2013. You will then need to undertake the equivalent new modules as outlined in the Transitional Schedule.

Want more information?
For more details please visit the website or myCA. Alternatively, contact the National Customer Service Centre on 1300 137 322 or email service@charteredaccountants.com.au.

Regards

Peter Kerr
General Manager, Chartered Accountants Program & Admissions
The Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia

And here's the timetable & changes link for those who are interested:
http://www.charteredaccountants.com....schedules.aspx
http://www.charteredaccountants.com....e-changes.aspx

It is interesting that they have removed compulsory focus sessions (similar to a tutorial in uni) and the assignment, to be replaced with online assessments. If there's no compulsory face to face action, I think the networking (and resource sharing) opportunities will become significantly less which is a pity.

[seremify007]

Woo I passed with merit!!

[RDX]

Congrats!

[Azure]

Congrats mate

[seremify007]

cheers guys

[immabee]

Hey there congrats!

Am sure your hard work paid that off. Were those exams difficult as what others have mentioned?

[seremify007]

Hey there congrats!

Am sure your hard work paid that off. Were those exams difficult as what others have mentioned?

They're not easy but they are very logical in the sense that there are no 'trick questions'. Everything which they examine can clearly be linked back to either a practice question or worked example included in the CLP (essentially the textbook) or readings.

[lyounamu]

^Nice one!

Now off to CFA? :P
MBA? haha

[seremify007]

^Nice one!

Now off to CFA? :P
MBA? haha

Debating what to do actually. Spoke with my Partner about it and whilst an MBA probably is more suitable, until I start managing decent sized teams, I may not get that much out of doing an MBA. I'll see how I feel when I get back from NY.

[CharlieB]

Debating what to do actually. Spoke with my Partner about it and whilst an MBA probably is more suitable, until I start managing decent sized teams, I may not get that much out of doing an MBA. I'll see how I feel when I get back from NY.

Congrats mate.

Is NY a secondment?

I'm not quite sure what to make of the changes to the CA program. The scrapping of focus sessions does reduce the benefits of networking (probably a cost-cutting method). But the flexiblity of online learning/assessment is overwhelmingly appealing especially when working full-time.

I worked out what my CA pathway would be and it looks like I'll be doing the new capstone unit in 2014. It looks quite interesting. Seems like they've placed a very strong focus on professional development. Not looking forward to the mandatory 24 hours of face to face learning though. And the lack of past papers/materials could be challenge. With change comes uncertainty.

[seremify007]

Congrats mate.

Is NY a secondment?

I'm not quite sure what to make of the changes to the CA program. The scrapping of focus sessions does reduce the benefits of networking (probably a cost-cutting method). But the flexiblity of online learning/assessment is overwhelmingly appealing especially when working full-time.

I worked out what my CA pathway would be and it looks like I'll be doing the new capstone unit in 2014. It looks quite interesting. Seems like they've placed a very strong focus on professional development. Not looking forward to the mandatory 24 hours of face to face learning though. And the lack of past papers/materials could be challenge. With change comes uncertainty.

I think everyone is in a similar boat to you in that they appreciate the flexibility but don't like the loss of networking opportunity. The downside of the optional sessions is that the only people there will be those who feel the need to attend to network (which in a way, could be good since you'll meet people outside of the typical Big4 environment who would otherwise dominate focus sessions and have their own little 'crowds'). I wouldn't say they are cost cutting measures since the focus sessions are probably quite cost effective to run given they have 2 facilitators (typically people who do this do it because they want to be involved in the institute as opposed to people doing it for monetary benefits) and 20-30 people in a session. Only four (or three in EBA) focus sessions per subject. I suspect a lot of companies and employers complained about the inflexibility of the focus sessions and timing whereby you must attend or you can't sit final exam.

NY is a secondment in January next year so I get to experience busy season in the banking practice over there Should be loads of fun but I don't think I'll be on BoS much!

[uberusername]

Debating what to do actually. Spoke with my Partner about it and whilst an MBA probably is more suitable, until I start managing decent sized teams, I may not get that much out of doing an MBA. I'll see how I feel when I get back from NY.

Hi Seremify,

Just completed CA myself and waiting on the processing of my membership.

Also looking at MBA's (which I can commence in Canberra). Where are you considering completing yours? (If indeed you decide to go down that track)

Obviously there are pre existing arrangements between ICAA and various unis of which AGSM is strangely not listed. (or not so strangely?)

I have missed the first trimester enrolment which is frustrating, but this course looks good so I think I might avoid enrolling in anything else before I find out whether I can get into AGSM EMBA.

Other courses I was considering are:
ANU MBA (16 subjects)
UC MBA (12 subjects, APS targeted [I'm not APS])
UTS EMBA (travel down on weekends)
ANU MFinMgmt (If unable to get into reputable EMBA)
Kaplan Master of MAppFin (reputation has scared me off)

Any input appreciated

[seremify007]

A couple of people I know went to LBS and said it was quite good so I considered that, but at this stage, will probably hold off. Another friend of mine from work is doing Masters of Applied Finance (and some other peeps are doing CFA) but then I am trying to determine what would actually be beneficial for me or most relevant. Ultimately, I need to figure out what I'm trying to achieve.

[immabee]

Just popped up another 4 questions randomly..

1. What part-time/casual accounting jobs do you guys get to be involve in whilst studying full-time bachelor of commerce/accounting degree?. As I browsed through job search lists, I seemed to be somewhat disadvantage because I do not know how to operate most softwares e.g. SAP, MYOB (heck not know what Pronto is). Or do you guys opt for other sorts of casual/part time jobs?

2. Is it necessary to join a Graduate program in order to get enrolled into CA program and to get that 3-year practical experience?

3. I also do wonder if all firms require a permanent residency visa at the completion of the graduate program and CA program.

4. Also has anyone tried completing all the accounting units during second year and proceed to CA program during third year?

[seremify007]

Just popped up another 4 questions randomly..

1. What part-time/casual accounting jobs do you guys get to be involve in whilst studying full-time bachelor of commerce/accounting degree?. As I browsed through job search lists, I seemed to be somewhat disadvantage because I do not know how to operate most softwares e.g. SAP, MYOB (heck not know what Pronto is). Or do you guys opt for other sorts of casual/part time jobs?

I believe for UNSW we don't require or teach how to use it at all (surprisingly). I suppose it's more important to understand the underlying data and how it works, as opposed to the system used to extract the data. From memory UTS teaches students how to use MYOB which is a bit more practical but I guess it won't really help you if you work in large corporation since they'll all use Peoplesoft GL, Sun GL, SAP, etc... and they'll train you when you get there. For me I picked things up on the job auditing clients and learning how to use their tools- noone expects you to know if that makes you feel any better.

On another note if you really want to learn MYOB or Quicken, I think TAFE probably runs courses which include it since it's a very practical thing to learn.

2. Is it necessary to join a Graduate program in order to get enrolled into CA program and to get that 3-year practical experience?

No, they recognise experience in other roles too as long as it's relevant and meets criteria. e.g. it can be as a trainee at (another) chartered firm, or you could be working in an accredited organisation. Refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com....e-requirements

3. I also do wonder if all firms require a permanent residency visa at the completion of the graduate program and CA program.

PR has nothing to do with the CA program. PR or specific visa requirements is for you to get a job with a firm- in recent years, all the firms moved to allow non-PR/citizens to apply however the competition is far more fierce in these roles as ultimately the firm has to bear the responsibility and cost of sponsoring you to work in Australia. As long as you meet all the CA program requirements, you are eligible to receive the CA designation/qualifications- you'll find there are people doing the Australian CA program in other countries around the world (e.g. Malaysia, India, America) even though they aren't citizens or PR in Australia.

4. Also has anyone tried completing all the accounting units during second year and proceed to CA program during third year?

I haven't but I know some people who did. As long as you've finished all your accounting electives as well (very unlikely by second year but possible if you overload to do it say, half a year earlier before graduating) then you can. Given the cost of joining the program to start studying as well as the tuition (if you want extra help), most people wait until their employer is willing to pay for it- this is typically after you've been working with a firm/company as opposed to prior.

[StarryLenz]

I'm hoping to undertake the revised CA program at some stage of my degree but aren't totally sure about when is the right time. According to the CA website link Accredited Tertiary Courses 2012, am I meant to have completed all the required units of study before beginning the program - or can I apply having completed a couple of the units.

Personally, I would like to start from 2013 (2nd yr of uni), but probably at this stage, I would have only completed a couple of units (equivalent to junior units of accounting major). Btw, I'm doing a Bach of Com (Lib Studies) at USYD.


Hopefully seremify or anyone else who knows more about this program can help.




Cheers

[seremify007]

You need to have completed ALL prerequisite subjects. Typically this is either most or all of your degree. I know some people who managed to start CA in their final semester of uni but really, it's not recommended. There's no incentive to do that since it means you're doing a lot more work at the same time (even balancing CA with part time uni studies is challenging), you're less likely to have an employer who is willing to sponsor you and pay for any additional costs (e.g. tuition) and you may find it tough to meet the admission requirements in terms of employment & mentor requirements. Whilst the employment and mentor requirements can change over time, and the CA program is looking to change the delivery method for 2013, I think you'd be better off waiting until you've started working full time before you even think about trying to do the CA program. You'll also gain a lot more out of it if you are doing it whilst working with other people because you can work together, share resources, bounce ideas, etc... because the support you get from the Institute and in Focus Sessions is very minimal- i.e. the people there "facilitate" discussion and not much more.

Keep in mind the CA program is a post-graduate qualification. It's not really designed or intended for people who are in uni to start- and even then, you must be able to meet any work experience requirements too.

[StarryLenz]

You need to have completed ALL prerequisite subjects. Typically this is either most or all of your degree. I know some people who managed to start CA in their final semester of uni but really, it's not recommended. There's no incentive to do that since it means you're doing a lot more work at the same time (even balancing CA with part time uni studies is challenging), you're less likely to have an employer who is willing to sponsor you and pay for any additional costs (e.g. tuition) and you may find it tough to meet the admission requirements in terms of employment & mentor requirements. Whilst the employment and mentor requirements can change over time, and the CA program is looking to change the delivery method for 2013, I think you'd be better off waiting until you've started working full time before you even think about trying to do the CA program. You'll also gain a lot more out of it if you are doing it whilst working with other people because you can work together, share resources, bounce ideas, etc... because the support you get from the Institute and in Focus Sessions is very minimal- i.e. the people there "facilitate" discussion and not much more.

Keep in mind the CA program is a post-graduate qualification. It's not really designed or intended for people who are in uni to start- and even then, you must be able to meet any work experience requirements too.

thanks, exactly what i was looking for. guess I'll just explore the program more in the meantime... REPPED!

[StarryLenz]

as u said above that its good to start program once you start working full-time, does this 'work' constitute things like a Big 4 Cadetship? Reading from the website, it says '3 yrs full-time' but I just had a look on your thread about the possibility of it being reduced to 9 months or something...

from this, I've got a new plan so hopefully this one works. basically I'll try doing a cadetship from 2nd yr uni (e.g. E/Y) and try to finish all CA units by 1st semester of final yr uni. Or else, I could try finishing the CA units in the 2nd last yr of uni, undertaking the program in final yr. What would you suggest in this case? just out of curiosity, did u do anything remotely like this ^ yourself haha?

cheers

[seremify007]

as u said above that its good to start program once you start working full-time, does this 'work' constitute things like a Big 4 Cadetship? Reading from the website, it says '3 yrs full-time' but I just had a look on your thread about the possibility of it being reduced to 9 months or something...

Before we get in too deep in discussion, keep in mind that there are two different work experience requirements.

1. Service Entry
The SERVICE ENTRY requirement used to require you to have worked say six months or so before you could even commence the first module. There are numerous reasons why work experience is a good thing to have, but primarily it gives you some practical experience which you can relate the theory you are learning with. The other conclusion people reach is that if you can relate to the content better, you're more likely to get something out of the CA program and also more likely to pass- the latter being a key thing for any employer. So even though the Institute has reduced entry requirements, you'll still need to find an employer who is willing to sponsor you and this may require you to prove to your employer that you're a really great student and are capable of balancing the work commitments and studies- i.e. exception rather than rule.

Refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com....uirements.aspx

2. Practical Experience
The other requirement you're referring to is the PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE requirement which is the work experience requirement before you can actually get the CA designation. That is, you can finish all the modules but until you've done 3 years full time work, you can't actually call yourself a CA. It needs to be relevant work, etc... and your employer needs to fill in forms confirming this, etc.

For more info refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com....cal-experience

from this, I've got a new plan so hopefully this one works. basically I'll try doing a cadetship from 2nd yr uni (e.g. E/Y) and try to finish all CA units by 1st semester of final yr uni. Or else, I could try finishing the CA units in the 2nd last yr of uni, undertaking the program in final yr. What would you suggest in this case? just out of curiosity, did u do anything remotely like this ^ yourself haha?

Whilst cadetship work experience is recognised so therefore you can get CA qualified as soon as you've finished the studies/exams (since they take more than a year to complete), I don't understand why you're trying to rush. Keep in mind if you fail a subject, typically your employer will require you to pay for it including any additional tuition/support materials and textbooks.

I personally just did the normal cadetship route of do the cadetship, finish uni, start CA, finish CA, etc. It gets messy if you try to overlap things and unless you overload in uni so that you have a nice cruisy final semester (e.g. you only need to do 2 or 3 subjects instead of 4), I think you'd find the program very difficult to manage. You'd also miss out on a lot of the firm-support since you wouldn't actually be employed at the time and hence you wouldn't be able to loop in with your fellow intake grads/trainees to help you (and hence making the program even harder).

[StarryLenz]

Before we get in too deep in discussion, keep in mind that there are two different work experience requirements.

1. Service Entry
The SERVICE ENTRY requirement used to require you to have worked say six months or so before you could even commence the first module. There are numerous reasons why work experience is a good thing to have, but primarily it gives you some practical experience which you can relate the theory you are learning with. The other conclusion people reach is that if you can relate to the content better, you're more likely to get something out of the CA program and also more likely to pass- the latter being a key thing for any employer. So even though the Institute has reduced entry requirements, you'll still need to find an employer who is willing to sponsor you and this may require you to prove to your employer that you're a really great student and are capable of balancing the work commitments and studies- i.e. exception rather than rule.

Refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com....uirements.aspx

2. Practical Experience
The other requirement you're referring to is the PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE requirement which is the work experience requirement before you can actually get the CA designation. That is, you can finish all the modules but until you've done 3 years full time work, you can't actually call yourself a CA. It needs to be relevant work, etc... and your employer needs to fill in forms confirming this, etc.

For more info refer to: http://www.charteredaccountants.com....cal-experience



Whilst cadetship work experience is recognised so therefore you can get CA qualified as soon as you've finished the studies/exams (since they take more than a year to complete), I don't understand why you're trying to rush. Keep in mind if you fail a subject, typically your employer will require you to pay for it including any additional tuition/support materials and textbooks.

I personally just did the normal cadetship route of do the cadetship, finish uni, start CA, finish CA, etc. It gets messy if you try to overlap things and unless you overload in uni so that you have a nice cruisy final semester (e.g. you only need to do 2 or 3 subjects instead of 4), I think you'd find the program very difficult to manage. You'd also miss out on a lot of the firm-support since you wouldn't actually be employed at the time and hence you wouldn't be able to loop in with your fellow intake grads/trainees to help you (and hence making the program even harder).

thanks for the input. on a final note - aside from the ca program, mmm... i was just thinking about the potential cadetship taken in 2nd yr - knowing that you have to take 2 subs/sem - I'm afraid this will lengthen my degree (4yrs) heaps - do you know how long it could be lengthened by approx.? In your sig, you managed a cadetship i assume with uni and finished in 4 yrs but isn't a part-time degree around 6 yrs? tbh, I'm keen on completing uni/cadetship asap but will keep your advice in mind

also, I just read the EY website and it says that the cadetship is 2yrs long and once someone has graduated, they continue work at EY - would this be reflective of other firms?

[seremify007]

thanks for the input. on a final note - aside from the ca program, mmm... i was just thinking about the potential cadetship taken in 2nd yr - knowing that you have to take 2 subs/sem - I'm afraid this will lengthen my degree (4yrs) heaps - do you know how long it could be lengthened by approx.? In your sig, you managed a cadetship i assume with uni and finished in 4 yrs but isn't a part-time degree around 6 yrs? tbh, I'm keen on completing uni/cadetship asap but will keep your advice in mind

Standard Commerce/Business degree is 3 years - Year 1, Year 2 and Year3

With a cadetship, one of those years is stretched into two since you are doing half load/part time (whilst working full time). In your case it would be Year 2 which becomes split into two (hence lengthening by one year overall).

also, I just read the EY website and it says that the cadetship is 2yrs long and once someone has graduated, they continue work at EY - would this be reflective of other firms?

They are referring to the full time work component as being 2 years. Typically yes you continue to work as a graduate at the respective firm once you finish uni unless you had performance issues or you resigned/chose not to.

ps. I am merging this thread into existing CA Program thread.

[seremify007]

Just thought I'd post an update here after working in the US.... US GAAP is so prescriptive (and thick compared to our IFRS standards).