USYD B Eco v.s MAQ B Com-Prof Accntg + B Appd Finance

[Proteus]

Dear BOS forum! I need major help with deciding whether to stay with B Eco @ USYD or go B Comm- Prof Accg + B App Fin @ MAQ
Long story short:
Wanted to get into Bachelor of Commerce @ UNSW to major in Accounting and Finance for a while , didn't get offered in Main round and Late round.
I was expecting either to make it into UNSW B Commerce or B Economics ( I personally like UNSW) otherwise Macquarie B Com – Prof Accg + B App. Fin as my ATAR was borderline of last years cut offs.
That would have meant, if I didn't make UNSW, I wouldn't have made USYD
(Personal preference: USNW > MAQ >>>>USYD)
HOWEVER,
I put USYD as 3rd and 4th choice for the sake of it and surprisingly, I was offered B Economics @ USYD, which was totally unexpected and muddled up my psychological expectations
My intentions -

• Fulfill CPA requirements and get CPA status as a safety net
• Enter finance sector to work in investment / financial advice / fund management

Current Situation:
Was Offered and have already enrolled for B Economics @ USYD (Main Round) which I can also fulfill CPA/ CA Status, however I will have to sacrifice my intentions of studying finance, by compromising in a major of "Financial Economics"
NOTE: B Economics is no longer offered by USYD business school, instead now, the Arts and Social Sciences school... don't know if that matters.

USYD B Economics:

Advantages (subjective)
- Stereotypically viewed as more prestigous than macquarie, which could benefit me if I need to work overseas ( pointing at Asia as Accounting is pretty oversupplied in Australia atm – least I hear so. ALso, I'm from Hong Kong myself, fluent in the Chinese languages and English... I hope that could somehow help, I wouldn't mind working in Hong Kong for a while if the opportunities are better)
- Stereotypically regarded as a better university. E.g. If an employer / stranger asked where I was from, USYD would sound "better" than Macquarie
- Geographically closer to my home, catch a train to Redfern and walk. ( Guestimate 1.5hours round trip)

Summary: Higher reputation , better future prospect

Disadvantages (subjective)

- Personally never been there, I don't like the ancient old school vibe of the architectures, don't like how you need to enrol in person (very old school...ugh). NEGATIVE IMPRESSION IN GENERAL
- To put it bluntly, as an old teenager.. I am concerned about the chances of finding another half or at least persons of interest and the compilation of Asians is far less than the likes of UNSW and possibly Macquarie (?? unsure). I don't mean I dislike socialising with people from different backgrounds as it broadens our understanding, but I personally prefer not to be the fish out of the water!
- Have to walk to and from Redfern station, an area which I also dislike due to its complex history of violence and crime
- Can't major in Finance (Financial Economics =/= Finance), thus I miss out on the ASIC RG146 accreditation – something about financial advisers and advice that the Macquarie B App Fin + Prof Accg course has.

Summary: Never been there, generally negative impression and I don't get to "properly" study Finance and miss out on ASIC RG146 accreditation which afaik seems to be slightly important?

Macquarie B Commerce – Professional Accounting + B Applied Finance
Advantages (subjective)

- The name of the degree says it all, it's a very specific degree which covers pretty much what I wanted to originally major anyway. Just the name alone I personally like more, lol..
- Get to cover BOTH CPA/CA requirements AND gain ASIC RG146 accreditation (which AFAIK allows one to provide financial advice at a cost)
- Not really an advantage, but word of mouth has it that Macquarie's business faculty, moreso accounting (i think?) is pretty strong and decent
- Seems to have more Asians?
- Personally been to Macquarie and my impression and vibe was positive.
(I know impressions can change, but I'm worried that it won't and the worst thing I'd want is to be stuck doing a degree at a place that you completely dislike!!! Doesn't add to the cause and could potentially affect my motivation)

Summary: Positive impression, more Asians than USYD (?), can get CPA/CA and ALSO study Finance to gain RG146

Disadvantages (subjective)

- Stereotypically classed as a B grade university, it's pretty decent, but will always be one step behind of universities like USYD and UNSW. I'm guessing that this might negatively impact my future prospect ESPECIALLY if I'm to go overseas to Asia.
- Geographically further away from home, ~80min round drive (i.e more costly to travel to and from)
- 4 year degree instead of 3 like B Eco @ USYD or an average B Commerce (Finance and Accounting) graduate, I'm unsure at this stage whether the extra year is worth it?
- Sounds less "cool" if I told people I was from Macquarie

Summary: Not as prestigious, probably less recognised globally which could limit opportunities overseas, more costly to travel to and is 4 years instead of 3, though if I do attend Macquarie, I will definitely drive... giving me more freedom

As this decision could have a vast influence on the next chapter of my life, I am in such a mental dillema as I can't seem to find the clear winner. Both appear to have their own goods and bads.. Which one would be "better for my future?" It would be fantastic if you guys could assist me by providing your opinions and thoughts, especially if you have experience in the industry.


Great replies will be instantly rewarded with rep and deeply appreciated...

[Azure]

I do understand your concerns of elitism, but the hard truth is that nobody who maters views Macquarie as a "b rate university" and you will quickly come to realise this if you accept the offer. In my experience, the only people who make these claims are either a) HSC students with no industry experience or b) people with nothing else to fall back on but the "prestige" of their institution (which at an undergraduate level in Australia, simply doesn't exist).

Macquarie is very well known for its faculty of business & economics, especially in the areas of accounting and finance and many employers consider it on-par, if not better than that of USYD. This is coming from somebody who up until recently came from an accounting background at Macquarie and who's been successful in several job interviews with some pretty decent companies (not to sound up myself, but I am merely making a point). In fact, at the last interview I attended I was told that the BCOM/BAPPFIN sounded like a fantastic combination (not studying this anymore as I wanted to transfer into law). In other words, you will not be at a disadvantage to people coming from UNSW/USYD, especially being a double degree student and especially if you're actively involved in extra-curriculars and work experience.

The most important point I wanted to raise however, is that you're comparing two very different degree programs. A bachelor of economics is typically something you will study if you want to go down the road of being an economist (although your major will obviously be a large factor in this). A bachelor of commerce - professional accounting / bachelor of applied finance is as you said, a little more specialised. It will open doors in not just accounting and finance, but also in areas such as consulting, etc. What you're doing with this particular program is taking your standard bachelor of commerce with your stock standard majors in accounting/finance and splitting it into two specialised degrees, which puts you ahead of the normal commerce students.

The bachelor of commerce - professional accounting is a bit rigid in structure (meaning you don't get many electives), but the benefit is when combined with the bachelor of applied finance, you're automatically eligible for the post-grad qualifications you've mentioned.

In terms of international recognition, I would say that both would be recognised to some extent, but I would probably advise you to wait for somebody with actual experience in this area to comment.

At the end of the day, compromising what you've always wanted to study is silly in my opinion. Make sure you're studying exactly what you're passionate about.

Also, if you are considering driving to Macquarie you would need to be on campus before 8:45am to be able to grab a parking spot, since parking does get very chaotic after that.

Hope that helps.

[halapenyo]

go to macquarie

[alexwareham2]

Just going to add sme useful information, a CPA is super hard to get in Europe and America, and thus many accountants don't have them, so that will secure you a job overseas, which leaves both courses open.
But honestly go to USYD, in Finance, or I know IB anyways, that they hire anyone with a passion or interest in Finance. You will be fine with a Economics degree, on the JP Morgan and Chase website for Aus some girl got hired with like a science or engineering degree. It honestly happens all the time. I would go to USYD, especially as the Financial Economics major shows that you are good at the Maths, and the Financial concepts, which is all they want/need you to have.

[nunaneomuyeppeo]

what can u do with a BEco seriously(besides teach HSC Eco), isn't it all the BComm graduates that get jobs in banks and finance companies? If it were me i'd go with the Macq degree for sure,

[alexwareham2]

Ohhh and for international recognition, I only know for the US, but USYD is on par with Ivy League when they convert degrees to show what they equal there, where as MACQ is at the level of decent schools, but not the upper echalon, which a lot of companies there require you to have. But that is just for working in the US. Both would probably be fine in Asia, although Asian countries are generally flooded with people wth degrees, so I am not to sure about the whole accounting shortage, especially on HK.

[Azure]

Just out of curiosity, can you back up the Ivy league on par with USyd claim with a link?

Sounds a bit off to me but I am happy to be proven wrong.

Edit: In hindsight, this sounds completely false. The gap in international ranking between Usyd and the true ivy leagues is just way too wide for it to be considered on par. It's an illogical conclusion to make and this is why many people will tell you that prestige doesn't really exist in Australia (not to down play the reputation of our higher education institutions). What will get you international recognition is the CPA (in America) and the CA. I would think that university comes second to this. There are a few users here who have finished their accounting post grad qualifications and would be able to offer a deeper insight.

[OzKo]

• Ignore prestige. HR Managers which make decisions based on prestige should be promptly fired. This is not how employment works contrary to popular belief
• Redfern is safe. I've walked through Redfern on the weekend, in the dark, and I felt comfortable.
• Architecture is mixed. It isn't all sandstone.
• There are a lot of Asians at USYD. Not too sure how you can be fish out of water because you may haveto socialise with non-Asians. It's shit like this which give Asians a bad name. It's a disappointing trend but I'm not going to start an argument here.

Weighing up all your pros and cons, go to Macquarie. A lot of the assumptions you've made about USYD is incorrect and you would do well to do something you're more interested in rather than go somewhere which you perceive to be better.

[Proteus]

I do understand your concerns of elitism, but the hard truth is that nobody who maters views Macquarie as a "b rate university" and you will quickly come to realise this if you accept the offer. In my experience, the only people who make these claims are either a) HSC students with no industry experience or b) people with nothing else to fall back on but the "prestige" of their institution (which at an undergraduate level in Australia, simply doesn't exist).

Macquarie is very well known for its faculty of business & economics, especially in the areas of accounting and finance and many employers consider it on-par, if not better than that of USYD. This is coming from somebody who up until recently came from an accounting background at Macquarie and who's been successful in several job interviews with some pretty decent companies (not to sound up myself, but I am merely making a point). In fact, at the last interview I attended I was told that the BCOM/BAPPFIN sounded like a fantastic combination (not studying this anymore as I wanted to transfer into law). In other words, you will not be at a disadvantage to people coming from UNSW/USYD, especially being a double degree student and especially if you're actively involved in extra-curriculars and work experience.

The most important point I wanted to raise however, is that you're comparing two very different degree programs. A bachelor of economics is typically something you will study if you want to go down the road of being an economist (although your major will obviously be a large factor in this). A bachelor of commerce - professional accounting / bachelor of applied finance is as you said, a little more specialised. It will open doors in not just accounting and finance, but also in areas such as consulting, etc. What you're doing with this particular program is taking your standard bachelor of commerce with your stock standard majors in accounting/finance and splitting it into two specialised degrees, which puts you ahead of the normal commerce students.

The bachelor of commerce - professional accounting is a bit rigid in structure (meaning you don't get many electives), but the benefit is when combined with the bachelor of applied finance, you're automatically eligible for the post-grad qualifications you've mentioned.

In terms of international recognition, I would say that both would be recognised to some extent, but I would probably advise you to wait for somebody with actual experience in this area to comment.

At the end of the day, compromising what you've always wanted to study is silly in my opinion. Make sure you're studying exactly what you're passionate about.

Also, if you are considering driving to Macquarie you would need to be on campus before 8:45am to be able to grab a parking spot, since parking does get very chaotic after that.

Hope that helps.

Thanks it does help with my decision, the one thing that I am still stuck is as follows...

I hear that accountants in Australia are in over supply, hence for me to survive, there would be a large possibility that I'll have to try and work elsewhere, preferably Hong Kong as I have heard a lot of relatives praise and speak well about Accounting (and finance I suppose) and that they are always in demand here.

However, if I am to work in Hong Kong, having a degree from USYD (as it is more reputable here at least) to have a much larger advantage than Macquarie.. that's the only thing I'm worried about >_<

[Azure]

To be honest it really does depend on who you ask. I've heard that accountants are in undersupply (although I think somewhere in between is probably most accurate).

If your grades are good, you have good extra curricular activities and work experience, I am very confident you will find a good job in Australia. Internationally, as I mentioned above, I would imagine you would be assessed more on your post grad qualifications and experience rather than university ranking.

[Proteus]

In pure terms of "majors" and learning content and post graduate qualifications / accreditation, Macquarie does seem to have the edge..

I think it's better to sit on a knowledge of Finance and a CPA licence, rather than Economic knowledge and a CPA licence.

But name USYD > Macquarie anyday (internationally)

How true do you think the statement that the Uni name is only important for the first 1-3 jobs?

[Proteus]

To be honest it really does depend on who you ask. I've heard that accountants are in undersupply (although I think somewhere in between is probably most accurate).

If your grades are good, you have good extra curricular activities and work experience, I am very confident you will find a good job in Australia. Internationally, as I mentioned above, I would imagine you would be assessed more on your post grad qualifications and experience rather than university ranking.

True, grades and extra curricular and work experience are also very important.... I think I have almost decided on a personal level. Just have to speak to the parents / elders and get it past them

[Azure]

The uni you went to certainly becomes less relevant as you gain more experience, but in all honesty I think you're reading a little too much into it. I'm probably a little biased since I'm a MQ student, but all I can really go on are my own experiences, most of which have been positive. It's important to remember that above all, employers want to know what you can bring to the table or how you can add value to their organisation.

If you're still unsure I would encourage you to keep doing your research. You're on the right track.

Good luck.

[alexwareham2]

Just out of curiosity, can you back up the Ivy league on par with USyd claim with a link?

Sounds a bit off to me but I am happy to be proven wrong.

Edit: In hindsight, this sounds completely false. The gap in international ranking between Usyd and the true ivy leagues is just way too wide for it to be considered on par. It's an illogical conclusion to make and this is why many people will tell you that prestige doesn't really exist in Australia (not to down play the reputation of our higher education institutions). What will get you international recognition is the CPA (in America) and the CA. I would think that university comes second to this. There are a few users here who have finished their accounting post grad qualifications and would be able to offer a deeper insight.

I ignored the fact that it wasn't on par with the true Ivy's and just meant the others. As in Brown, and Dartmouth.
Plus, USYD is better in the fact that you will be able to work overseas, where as MACQ lacks that same overseas prestige. A family friend did Economics in NZ at Auckland, which in rankings is always Top 50, so way above MACQ, and he did IB for Deutsche and now owns a boutique firm on Wall Street, which is Citibank partnered. Thus for finance you need to go to a hugh ranking Uni.

[alexwareham2]

In pure terms of "majors" and learning content and post graduate qualifications / accreditation, Macquarie does seem to have the edge..

I think it's better to sit on a knowledge of Finance and a CPA licence, rather than Economic knowledge and a CPA licence.

But name USYD > Macquarie anyday (internationally)

How true do you think the statement that the Uni name is only important for the first 1-3 jobs?

In Aus yes. When I have looked at US oppurtunities they all want people with good grades from top schools. Pretty sure that is the same for HK, but I may be wrong.

[jung1239]

You can major in finance with a bachelor of economics at USYD. It would just be a double major along with economics/econometrics or financial economics.

[friend177]

You can always transfer if you dont like either one

[Cl324]

Sound like your in a bit of dilemma! Its seems that in you prefer Macq.
However It really depends on what you would like to do after uni. If you want to go into investment banking or any type of front office finance related role, go with USYD. The finance industry is generally elitists who place much more importance than necessary on prestige. If you want to work in a big four accounting firm where prestige isnt held on such a pedestal, then go Macq.
If I were you I would go USYD. You can transfer during your degree AND you can probably spend an extra year and do 3 majors in Fin/Acc/FinEc. There are some people taking an extra year doing double commerce majors in their comm/law degree. You can request it and unless you are performing abysmally, you should be fine.
But if you think you will be substantially happier at Macq go there! Although it might hurt employment propects later on
Also A LOT of misconceptions in this thread

what can u do with a BEco seriously(besides teach HSC Eco), isn't it all the BComm graduates that get jobs in banks and finance companies? If it were me i'd go with the Macq degree for sure,

LOL you cant teach HSC eco with an eco degree. You need a BA/BEd. Eco degrees are like commerce degrees except that you need to do one major in the economics department. You can work as economists, accountants, investment bankers etc.

[*]Ignore prestige. HR Managers which make decisions based on prestige should be promptly fired. This is not how employment works contrary to popular belief.

HR doesnt do the hiring LOL. HR people mainly deal with OHS, in house training and passing on resumes. They do not have qualifications and are not familiar enough with the field to hire and fire people(except for HR applicants). They only do so on behalf of someone else. And if you think that a company will not choose a UNSW grad over are UWS grad, you are just ignorant.

I hear that accountants in Australia are in over supply, hence for me to survive, there would be a large possibility that I'll have to try and work elsewhere, preferably Hong Kong as I have heard a lot of relatives praise and speak well about Accounting (and finance I suppose) and that they are always in demand here.
However, if I am to work in Hong Kong, having a degree from USYD (as it is more reputable here at least) to have a much larger advantage than Macquarie.. that's the only thing I'm worried about >_<

You should not go into this thinking you are going to have a greater chance in HK than Aus. HK is THE financial centre of Asia. Sydney cannot compare.
They do not hand out jobs like candy. You will be competing with people from America, England etc. If you cannot get a job in Aus you WILL NOT get a job in HK. People who work in Asia straight out of undergrad have good grades, good extra curriculars, are well rounded and speak fluent mandarin. They are not people who cannot find jobs in Syd and have to resort to HK but the best calibre students from all over the world

I ignored the fact that it wasn't on par with the true Ivy's and just meant the others. As in Brown, and Dartmouth.
Plus, USYD is better in the fact that you will be able to work overseas, where as MACQ lacks that same overseas prestige. A family friend did Economics in NZ at Auckland, which in rankings is always Top 50, so way above MACQ, and he did IB for Deutsche and now owns a boutique firm on Wall Street, which is Citibank partnered. Thus for finance you need to go to a hugh ranking Uni.

LOLL okay seriously... Brown and Dartmouth ARE 'true ivys'. Seriously IVY League wipes the floor with Aus unis.
NO WAY IN THE WORLD IS SYDNEY COMPARABLE TO IVY LEAGUES. This includes lower ivys. Not only this but higher non ivys >>>>>> USYD/UNSW. Give me anyone who works in the finance industry anywhere besides maybe Sydney who wont prefer the MIT/NYU/Stanford/Caltech/Berkeley kid for someone from any of the Aussie unis. Also I call BS on the family friend. Name or he doesnt exist. The only prominent Finance guy who graduated from Auckland is Vincent Cheng but hes not NY based.

[alexwareham2]

LOLL okay seriously... Brown and Dartmouth ARE 'true ivys'. Seriously IVY League wipes the floor with Aus unis.
NO WAY IN THE WORLD IS SYDNEY COMPARABLE TO IVY LEAGUES. This includes lower ivys. Not only this but higher non ivys >>>>>> USYD/UNSW. Give me anyone who works in the finance industry anywhere besides maybe Sydney who wont prefer the MIT/NYU/Stanford/Caltech/Berkeley kid for someone from any of the Aussie unis. Also I call BS on the family friend. Name or he doesnt exist. The only prominent Finance guy who graduated from Auckland is Vincent Cheng but hes not NY based.

The only true Ivys now are Yale, Harvard and Princeton as school such as Stanford, NYU, MIT, UofCal have appeared and are considered to be better.
And duh people would prefer Ivy in the US as they see that they are the only place with decent Education. But for not Ivy or Top 10 they consider Australian schools to be pretty good. But anyways for US finance you must do Post-grad anyways. My point is just that USYD opens up more oppurtunities and that it is better ranked in the world than MACQ. Plus it has better exchange partners. Thus, those schools see it as being on par with them. Hence MACQ having average partners at best.

Name is Clive Holmes. Owns Silverfern Co-Investment. And my bad. He went to Victoria, which is ranked lower than Auckland. So look him up if you want. It is a true story!

[gsweeper]

I do understand your concerns of elitism, but the hard truth is that nobody who maters views Macquarie as a "b rate university" and you will quickly come to realise this if you accept the offer. In my experience, the only people who make these claims are either a) HSC students with no industry experience or b) people with nothing else to fall back on but the "prestige" of their institution (which at an undergraduate level in Australia, simply doesn't exist).

Can I just say I often lurk these forums more than I post and if you get advice from Azure on here, you won't get any better from anyone else. What he said here is 100% true, Macquarie being viewed as a "b grade" university comes from exactly that, HSC students who think USYD and UNSW are the holy grail's of universities despite never attending a university. Every university has it's pro's and con's but they change for every individual and what they wish to take out of their university experience.

As for career development, if you are good enough for the job you will get it, employees look so far beyond a sheet of paper. A university does can not teach you drive or determination, nor can it teach you people skills or help you develop initiative and aspiration. Do you know who teaches you that? Yourself! So if you hold these qualities for success, that will give you your competitive advantage. Sure a degree from Usyd looks nice and neat, but unless you can exhibit that attributes that will allow you to succeed, that piece of paper will mean nothing, and neither will the institute from where you obtained it.

[OzKo]

Can I just say I often lurk these forums more than I post and if you get advice from Azure on here, you won't get any better from anyone else. What he said here is 100% true, Macquarie being viewed as a "b grade" university comes from exactly that, HSC students who think USYD and UNSW are the holy grail's of universities despite never attending a university. Every university has it's pro's and con's but they change for every individual and what they wish to take out of their university experience.

As for career development, if you are good enough for the job you will get it, employees look so far beyond a sheet of paper. A university does can not teach you drive or determination, nor can it teach you people skills or help you develop initiative and aspiration. Do you know who teaches you that? Yourself! So if you hold these qualities for success, that will give you your competitive advantage. Sure a degree from Usyd looks nice and neat, but unless you can exhibit that attributes that will allow you to succeed, that piece of paper will mean nothing, and neither will the institute from where you obtained it.

A lot of you newbies need to learn that the choice you make at 18, and how you did in the HSC is not a reflection of employable you are after you graduate. I know people who did better than me in the HSC, and then they slid backwards. Other people have excelled after graduating from high school and entering university. The university you go to does not provide employers with an indication of how value has been added to your education and communication skills. This is not how employment works and if this practice was actually practiced by HR, I assure you their employees would be absolute dross. Azure, gsweeper, enoilgam, izzy88 among others have the right idea about how the real world works. Unlike the lot of you high school kids who haven't gone to university, we have an understanding of how life after graduation works unlike the lot of you who seem to operate on hearsay.

I don't want to come across as aggressive, but the sheer volume of misconceptions about how important going to University X is in regards to your future is really starting to annoy me now.

[gsweeper]

My point is just that USYD opens up more oppurtunities and that it is better ranked in the world than MACQ. Plus it has better exchange partners. Thus, those schools see it as being on par with them. Hence MACQ having average partners at best.

I think that is a pretty unfair statement, I'm going on exchange this year and my application process was made extremely difficult by the amount of quality universities MQ is partnered with, particularly in mainland Europe; Stockholm School of Economics, University of Copenhagen, Aarhus University, University of Zurich, University of Geneva, University of Munich, Berlin School of Economics and Law, University of Utrecht and Tilburg University, University of Vienna, University of Oslo...I can keep going.

Point i'm trying to make is that sure Macq isn't exposed to as many universities at Usyd, in particular within the US and UK, but to say these Universities are average is a pretty big insult to them.

[blurp]

so which one did you end up taking?

[Proteus]

delete

[Proteus]

so which one did you end up taking?

so which one did you end up taking?

Thanks for everybody's helfpul and useful insights, I forgot to say I ended up choosing USYD's B Economics, largely on the basis that I had more friends going there and it was closer.

I've heard people transferring into B Commerce really easily from B Economics, I've also heard my 2nd year mentor say that she had a "few" friends that transferred into Macquarie and said USYD was "shit".

I will see how everything goes, as it increasingly seems (at least to me) flexible, in terms of transferring and what not.

Thank you once again to everyone!