Can 1 Subject Bring your ATAR down?

[LightXT]

Op says she's aiming for 94+. I'd assume she has more potential than half the candidature of Advanced.

If it gives you any hope, I was ranked 189th/209 for English (Advanced) at the end of Year 11. Then I learnt that I had to study for English.

[RANK 1]

It does. u denying?

not really, get around 85% for it and it wont do anything

[bleakarcher]

yeh this is true. most standard kids cant do that though.

[pasta8]

This. Never EVER do Standard. Tbh, I can't tell the difference between Advanced and Standard.

Standard and advanced english are almost exactly the same in terms of difficulty so I see no point in not doing Advanced even for bad performing student. As I said previously it will do nothing but help your atar. Also, I recommend you move as well.

IMO I believe English Standard is a lot easier than Advanced, especially for someone who isn't passionate about English, or isn't particular good at it (seems kinda obvious). I managed to get a band 5 in Standard ; which would have been unlikely If I had done Advance. But by hypothetically substituting my Standard mark for Advanced in an ATAR calculator, it only made a 0.15 difference, which wouldn't really have helped me (could of though!). So unless you want/need an ATAR above 99 , choosing Standard can be a good idea.

Anywhoo. Back to the OP, like everyone else has said, 1 subject could easily bring your ATAR down, but If you put your head down and keep trying hard, you can definitely get over 94. I was in a similar to position to you in that I failed my first Standard assessment worth 20% (I really shouldn't have, it was total BS) , so was totally gutted about it since my ATAR aim was 96+. Eventually I got over it (was pissed off for ages though) and decided to spend a little extra time studying (didn't want to neglect my other subjects) English and ended up 1st LOL, not only because Standard is not that difficult but also because hardly anyone tries, so getting a good rank is a piece of cake. I know it won't be like that for you, since you're in Advanced, but the point is, that it is possible for you to bounce back! Consider a tutor as well, that could be the boost that you need.

Also if you end up not getting the ATAR you need, it's not the end of the world (which you've probably been told 1000 times).... I didn't get the ATAR I needed (although I did get 96.3 which was my aim lol ><) but after studying in a different but similar course, I got the marks I needed to transfer to the course I wanted... just focus on studying and doing your best, that's all you can do really, don't worry too much!

So In conclusion, Good Luck and Peace Out

[pasta8]

Standard is only for people who think they'll get under 80 aligned mark.

That said with a lot of preparation it shouldn't be too hard to at least get 80+ in advanced to get scaled up.

Or for people who don't like HSC english and would rather spend more time studying subjects they enjoy .

That's like saying spoons are only for eating soup! That's just silly because spoons are only for sticking on your forehead. My SPOOOON is too biggg!

[moonblack]

ROFL you're completely and utterly fucked if you're failing english. Mate, throw all your dreams away about getting a good ATAR, just forget about it. You're done for. I mean if you chose something thats shit and useless like sowing (design technology or something for shit idiots) and did shit in that, whatever. But english (advanced) is the staple to a good ATAR.

Don't worry, there is always hope in:

https://www.tafensw.edu.au/

I look forward to seeing you institutionalised in such a fine learning environment.

"IMO I believe English Standard is a lot easier than Advanced, especially for someone who isn't passionate about English"

so easy you got a band 5, just what the fuck LOL

[pasta8]

Wow! Sowing is awesome, it's not useless you fool!

[someth1ng]

If you got Band 5 in Standard, you would've got Band 5 in Advanced.

[Cl324]

IMO I believe English Standard is a lot easier than Advanced, especially for someone who isn't passionate about English, or isn't particular good at it (seems kinda obvious). I managed to get a band 5 in Standard ; which would have been unlikely If I had done Advance. But by hypothetically substituting my Standard mark for Advanced in an ATAR calculator, it only made a 0.15 difference, which wouldn't really have helped me (could of though!). So unless you want/need an ATAR above 99 , choosing Standard can be a good idea.

Advanced has almost identical difficulty to standard. I mean paper 1 is exactly the same and you still do three modules.
Whatever you got for standard you wouldve got better in for advanced, I guarantee. The reason why ATAR calculator gave you a 0.15 per cent difference is because it aligns differently. E.g. top 10% of students get b6 in advanced, top 0.05% of students get b6 in standard

[enoilgam]

Advanced has almost identical difficulty to standard. I mean paper 1 is exactly the same and you still do three modules.
Whatever you got for standard you wouldve got better in for advanced, I guarantee. The reason why ATAR calculator gave you a 0.15 per cent difference is because it aligns differently. E.g. top 10% of students get b6 in advanced, top 0.05% of students get b6 in standard

This. Advanced and standard scale the same but align differently - its the poor aligning that makes standard a bad subject choice.

[HybridKath]

I'm a selective school ranked ~30, they don't offer Standard English, no point arguing if Standard or Advanced is better.

Well, I've got several months to work on English so I'd better start so it's less likely to jeopardize my chances of 94+. Gotta bust out some past papers.

[LightXT]

I'm a selective school ranked ~30, they don't offer Standard English, no point arguing if Standard or Advanced is better.

Well, I've got several months to work on English so I'd better start so it's less likely to jeopardize my chances of 94+. Gotta bust out some past papers.

You don't really have several months. Each internal assessment task should be important, and I doubt that your next assessment for English is far off.

[bleakarcher]

Advanced has almost identical difficulty to standard. I mean paper 1 is exactly the same and you still do three modules.
Whatever you got for standard you wouldve got better in for advanced, I guarantee. The reason why ATAR calculator gave you a 0.15 per cent difference is because it aligns differently. E.g. top 10% of students get b6 in advanced, top 0.05% of students get b6 in standard

Yeh, this.
Also, in the hsc paper, it is paper 1 that most standard students screw up and where the advanced students gain the advantage. This is because the standard students also learn a greater variety of skills in English as well. So there are two reasons to pick advanced rather than standard- you are taught much more skills and techniques, giving you the advantage, AND aligning in advanced is much better.

[pasta8]

If you got Band 5 in Standard, you would've got Band 5 in Advanced.

Yeah you're probably right, but I had no idea at the time.. If I had to do the HSC again I would consider Advanced... I'm just saying it's not the worst thing in the world for your ATAR.

Advanced has almost identical difficulty to standard. I mean paper 1 is exactly the same and you still do three modules.
Whatever you got for standard you wouldve got better in for advanced, I guarantee. The reason why ATAR calculator gave you a 0.15 per cent difference is because it aligns differently. E.g. top 10% of students get b6 in advanced, top 0.05% of students get b6 in standard

Yeah but the texts we used for those modules are in my opinion are a lot easier... I mean Educating Rita vs Cleopatra.. took me an hour to read Educating Rita. Anyway maybe they are closer in difficulty than I thought, but I find that silly that they would make them so.

Good point, unfortunately I didn't know that, sucks it aligns so badly.. why is that?

A bit off-topic but anyway: I find it unfair that's it's compulsory for yr 12 English and maths isn't.. someone who loves English and hates Maths will find it easier to get a good ATAR than the other way around.. I would have loved to choose Physics over English.. I know English is important but come on, you hardly learn anything valuable about it in year 12.. year 11 English is more than sufficient for those more interested in the sciences.

This. Advanced and standard scale the same but align differently - its the poor aligning that makes standard a bad subject choice.

Yeah the aligning is shite but it doesn't make a bad subject choice for everyone. For me: the cons of doing Advanced outweighed the pros. I didn't like Standard but it was bearable, by looking at my friends texts and the essays/assessments they had to do (trust me they were longer/more complicated).. I would have hated it... I could have done well in Advanced but I would have absolutely hated the process --> so for me that outweighed the possibility of getting a slightly higher ATAR.. but for some people that might be worth it.. personally not for me

I'm a selective school ranked ~30, they don't offer Standard English, no point arguing if Standard or Advanced is better.

Well, I've got several months to work on English so I'd better start so it's less likely to jeopardize my chances of 94+. Gotta bust out some past papers.

Yeah but it can be fun... GOOD LUCK

[pasta8]

Come on guys! Standard is not the same (or nearly) difficulty than Advanced! An Advanced student would smash Standard! A lot of people who do standard don't even try that's why they do so bad overall

[D94]

Come on guys! Standard is not the same (or nearly) difficulty than Advanced! An Advanced student would smash Standard! A lot of people who do standard don't even try that's why they do so bad overall

The concepts, ideas, techniques, quotes, structure, analysis etc. are pretty much the same. Sure the texts might be different in difficulty, but to write a great essay, you're still going to need those set criteria to get a high mark.

A Band 4 Advanced student (or even low Band 5) wouldn't beat a Band 6 Standard student (ie. top 50 of state).

Obviously if you don't try in any subject, you'll do bad overall. But with Standard, to get that Band 6, you'll have to be as good as the top Advanced students, so it's sort of self-defeating.

[pasta8]

The concepts, ideas, techniques, quotes, structure, analysis etc. are pretty much the same. Sure the texts might be different in difficulty, but to write a great essay, you're still going to need those set criteria to get a high mark.

A Band 4 Advanced student (or even low Band 5) wouldn't beat a Band 6 Standard student (ie. top 50 of state).

Obviously if you don't try in any subject, you'll do bad overall. But with Standard, to get that Band 6, you'll have to be as good as the top Advanced students, so it's sort of self-defeating.

Fair point, but wouldn't you agree that it takes a lot less time and effort to write a good essay on a less complicated text... okay maybe they are closer than I thought.. doing Advanced is generally a better idea but you're not totally doomed by doing Standard can we at-least all agree on that?... glad I'm in the course I want now and don't have to worry about these things anymore... sigh

I would think a band 4 student in Advanced is capable of getting a band 6 in Standard.. If they put the same effort in, my point is that not many people try in standard, but those who do will do well and may even get a band 6, I was so close to getting band 6, I got 89... and compared to my friends who did Advanced on only got low band 5s or even band 4s, I put very little effort into it..

[LightXT]

It's not like the difference between General Maths and Mathematics.

[Pfortune35]

yes

[Riproot]

English standard brought my ATAR down from 95.XX to 94.75.

[Cl324]

It's not like the difference between General Maths and Mathematics.

yeah, its worse

[Riproot]

Fair point, but wouldn't you agree that it takes a lot less time and effort to write a good essay on a less complicated text... okay maybe they are closer than I thought.. doing Advanced is generally a better idea but you're not totally doomed by doing Standard can we at-least all agree on that?... glad I'm in the course I want now and don't have to worry about these things anymore... sigh

I would think a band 4 student in Advanced is capable of getting a band 6 in Standard.. If they put the same effort in, my point is that not many people try in standard, but those who do will do well and may even get a band 6, I was so close to getting band 6, I got 89... and compared to my friends who did Advanced on only got low band 5s or even band 4s, I put very little effort into it..

No way in hell. Lol
Essays are essays in English. You advanced people think "oh my topic is harder" but at the end of the day it's just an essay and it's the same basic stuff.
Also, everyone that dropped out of advanced at my school was capable of a band 4 or more but only like 3 that dropped got a band 5 (and the other two were brought up because they had higher internals than me).
Also, I beat majority of the advanced kids at my school in paper 1 in the trial and HSC (and I screwed up the HSC creative) and everyone doing advanced at my school got a band 5 or higher. So, really… no…

[Cl324]

No way in hell. Lol
Essays are essays in English. You advanced people think "oh my topic is harder" but at the end of the day it's just an essay and it's the same basic stuff.
Also, everyone that dropped out of advanced at my school was capable of a band 4 or more but only like 3 that dropped got a band 5 (and the other two were brought up because they had higher internals than me).
Also, I beat majority of the advanced kids at my school in paper 1 in the trial and HSC (and I screwed up the HSC creative) and everyone doing advanced at my school got a band 5 or higher. So, really… no…

+1
I dont think many people that do advanced think that standard is so much easier
This is just a standard person fooling themselves in believing they did picked the right subject because advanced is so much harder

I would think a band 4 student in Advanced is capable of getting a band 6 in Standard.. If they put the same effort in, my point is that not many people try in standard, but those who do will do well and may even get a band 6, I was so close to getting band 6, I got 89... and compared to my friends who did Advanced on only got low band 5s or even band 4s, I put very little effort into it..

Half of the students with a band 6 in advanced would not be capable of getting a band 6 in standard.
Sorry its not about how smart you are and how hard you try, its just how shit standard aligns and scales compared to advanced

[Riproot]

+1
I dont think many people that do advanced think that standard is so much easier
This is just a standard person fooling themselves in believing they did picked the right subject because advanced is so much harder

Okay cools.
Because Advanced isn't much harder at all. I mean sure, the concepts in Module A are easier for Standard, but at the end of the day it's just essay writing and if you can't grasp the concepts for the Advanced modules then you're probably not cut-out to do the HSC in general.

[enoilgam]

Essays are essays in English. You advanced people think "oh my topic is harder" but at the end of the day it's just an essay and it's the same basic stuff.

Couldnt agree more. The texts are less complicated in standard but the essay questions are usually at the same level. This makes writing an essay in both subjects around the same difficulty.