Chinese immigration real estate property scam

[Lentern]

This is another big problem. If you come from Vietnam say and move to Australia the worst thing you could do (for yourself) is to live in the Vietnamese community and only have Vietnamese friends. Many Asian immigrants fall into this trap and fail to assimilate.

Integrate I think you mean.

[Bored_of_HSC]

This is another big problem. If you come from Vietnam say and move to Australia the worst thing you could do (for yourself) is to live in the Vietnamese community and only have Vietnamese friends. Many Asian immigrants fall into this trap and fail to assimilate.

Why is it our business if they don't?

In the end the people who can speak and communicate in english properly will get jobs and prosper. If they fail to do so their children will at least. I mean, how many second or third generation Italians/eastern Europeans do you see having difficulties in english?

[Bored_of_HSC]

If we were discussing this 50-60 years ago we'd be complaining about Italians and Greeks.

[Annihilist]

Asylum seekers (by boat) are made out to be a big problem although they are not. Last year it was what 5000 or so that arrived on our shores? They will have little to no impact on the Australian way of life. Not a problem in the grander scheme of things.

Yet then consider how many unskilled Chinese & Indian & people from other developing countries moved here. That is where the real problem is.

It's very interesting to see you and I agree on an immigration issue.

[soloooooo]

Integrate I think you mean.

No, I meant assimilate. From Webster dictionary: "to bring into conformity with the customs, attitudes, etc., of a group, nation, or the like; adapt or adjust: to assimilate the new immigrants."

[soloooooo]

Why is it our business if they don't?

In the end the people who can speak and communicate in english properly will get jobs and prosper. If they fail to do so their children will at least. I mean, how many second or third generation Italians/eastern Europeans do you see having difficulties in english?

It is our 'business' as they will become a burden on the Australian taxpayers and Australians in general. I fully support people who want to better themselves, although if they move to Australia they should speak English (including in the home also otherwise how do they think they will improve) and participate in the Australian way of life, not simply the X way of life in the X community in Australia (i.e. Iraqi community here etc).

[soloooooo]

If we were discussing this 50-60 years ago we'd be complaining about Italians and Greeks.

Yes. They (probably more so back the now) showed similar issues. Look at Leichardt in Sydney today, it is still very much Italian today. In 50 years time do we really want many Sydney suburbs to be Asian ghettos? As the way we are going as a nation currently this will end up occurring.

In 60 years time we (those who do not speak Mandarin now) may struggle to communicate with our grandchildren for they may not speak English fluently with school children in Australia educated across all subjects in Chinese. it was only a bit over 200 years ago that there were hundreads if not thousands of Indigenous languages spoken across Australia, then the first settlers arrived and ever since the number of people that speak those Indigenous languages have dwindled. Now only a few dozen of those Indigenous languages remain. Australia is now being swarmed by international immigrants (of predominantly non English background), so it is not inconceivable to imagine in the future English becoming a very minor language in Australia and Mandarin becoming the essential language to know in Australia (a travesty).

[Chemical Ali]

Most of the postwar migrants who came from Europe didn't speak english on arrival (including my grandparents and probably other peoples' in this thread) and they kind of built most of the country as it is today, so

[soloooooo]

today's immigrants live in enclaves just.. waiting and plotting in languages we can't understand. european immigrants were probably proud to bring their children up in a great white nation where they would integrate and learn the language of the majority.

Minus the 'plotting' part and I agree with the rest of your post.

[Lentern]

No, I meant assimilate. From Webster dictionary: "to bring into conformity with the customs, attitudes, etc., of a group, nation, or the like; adapt or adjust: to assimilate the new immigrants."

Surely you need a monolculture in order to assimilate into it? In a diverse multicultural society like Australia it would be integrating.

[Annihilist]

It is our 'business' as they will become a burden on the Australian taxpayers and Australians in general. I fully support people who want to better themselves, although if they move to Australia they should speak English (including in the home also otherwise how do they think they will improve) and participate in the Australian way of life, not simply the X way of life in the X community in Australia (i.e. Iraqi community here etc).

...why? What benefit will it bring to force cultural conformity? Why can't we accept other cultures?

Language, sure - if you can't communicate in the same language, fair enough. But cultures, values and "ways of life" are different for different people. Why do we need to divide them up into different countries? Why not let them intermingle and socialise?

More to the point, there are heaps of people who are born in Australia who are part of different ways of life and practice different cultures. Should we be forcing them to leave our country? Should we be purging differences across our population, like, oh I don't know, a certain ideological party in a certain european country during a certain war?

[Bored_of_HSC]

It is our 'business' as they will become a burden on the Australian taxpayers and Australians in general. I fully support people who want to better themselves, although if they move to Australia they should speak English (including in the home also otherwise how do they think they will improve) and participate in the Australian way of life, not simply the X way of life in the X community in Australia (i.e. Iraqi community here etc).

Your arguement only applies for first generation immigrants. ALL the second generation people i know (wheither they be chinese or whatever) can function and speak in english quite well.

But that is besides the point. It's none of our business what they do. If they don't learn english really only they have to suffer for it.

Yes. They (probably more so back the now) showed similar issues. Look at Leichardt in Sydney today, it is still very much Italian today. In 50 years time do we really want many Sydney suburbs to be Asian ghettos? As the way we are going as a nation currently this will end up occurring.

Yes Italians and Italian businesses are overrepresented there but anyone is welcome to come there. Adding to that everyone there speaks english very well.

In 60 years time we (those who do not speak Mandarin now) may struggle to communicate with our grandchildren for they may not speak English fluently with school children in Australia educated across all subjects in Chinese. it was only a bit over 200 years ago that there were hundreads if not thousands of Indigenous languages spoken across Australia, then the first settlers arrived and ever since the number of people that speak those Indigenous languages have dwindled. Now only a few dozen of those Indigenous languages remain. Australia is now being swarmed by international immigrants (of predominantly non English background), so it is not inconceivable to imagine in the future English becoming a very minor language in Australia and Mandarin becoming the essential language to know in Australia (a travesty).

Slippery slope fallacy mate. None of that shit is gonna happen.

Should we be purging differences across our population, like, oh I don't know, a certain ideological party in a certain european country during a certain war?

Reductio ad Hitlerum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bored_of_HSC]

What is this 'Australian way of life' that is being reffered to? What is "Australian" has changed so much throughout history. An 'Australian' living in the 1920's would look at disgust at the decadence of Australia today.

[soloooooo]

...why? What benefit will it bring to force cultural conformity? Why can't we accept other cultures?

I am not saying we should force them to totally give up their own culture although they should also adopt heavily into ours. I.e. go back 50 years ago and Australia was predominantly a Caucasian nation. Every suburb had one, maybe two Chinese family owned Chinese restaurants and these were great. People got to go eat Chinese takeaway once a week and experience some diverse food. Now however it is the opposite. I have nothing against immigrants (i.e. those who came here 50 years ago and opened that Chinese takeaway) although we simply have far too many immigrants now.

Language, sure - if you can't communicate in the same language, fair enough. But cultures, values and "ways of life" are different for different people. Why do we need to divide them up into different countries? Why not let them intermingle and socialise?

I was saying they should intermingle and socialise. I.e. if you are Asian don't have all Asian friends, and vice versa for White people.

More to the point, there are heaps of people who are born in Australia who are part of different ways of life and practice different cultures. Should we be forcing them to leave our country? [/url]

No we obviously can't force them to leave, what has happened in the past is done now. However your first sentence is why action must be taken as otherwise in the future Australia will simply be another province of China where most people born in Australia will be Chinese and their once 'different' way of life becomes the Australian way of life.

[soloooooo]

What is this 'Australian way of life' that is being reffered to? What is "Australian" has changed so much throughout history. An 'Australian' living in the 1920's would look at disgust at the decadence of Australia today.

See my post above with regards to Chinese takeaway food. It shows how much Australia has changed in recent years.

[soloooooo]

Your arguement only applies for first generation immigrants. ALL the second generation people i know (wheither they be chinese or whatever) can function and speak in english quite well.

Predominantly, yes first generation immigrants. Many second generation immigrants do hold Australian values although the problem is those who don't and it is becoming a point of no return for Australia where if you are not Asian you will be in the minority.

But that is besides the point. It's none of our business what they do. If they don't learn english really only they have to suffer for it.

Of course it is our business.

[Lentern]

Predominantly, yes first generation immigrants. Many second generation immigrants do hold Australian values although the problem is those who don't and it is becoming a point of no return for Australia where if you are not Asian you will be in the minority.



Of course it is our business.

[Annihilist]

I am not saying we should force them to totally give up their own culture although they should also adopt heavily into ours. I.e. go back 50 years ago and Australia was predominantly a Caucasian nation. Every suburb had one, maybe two Chinese family owned Chinese restaurants and these were great. People got to go eat Chinese takeaway once a week and experience some diverse food. Now however it is the opposite. I have nothing against immigrants (i.e. those who came here 50 years ago and opened that Chinese takeaway) although we simply have far too many immigrants now.

Is there a limit to how many immigrants we can have? At what point do we have "too many", and why do you get to decide the arbitrary limit? Any why is it a problem anyway? I still don't get that.

I was saying they should intermingle and socialise. I.e. if you are Asian don't have all Asian friends, and vice versa for White people.

Sure. But should we be saying that "asian people must have X amount of non-asian friends" or something? I agree - I think people should socialise and intermingle. But I don't think it's up to us to decide that for those people. It's their individual choice. And we are making a huge generalisation that they choose their friends based on nationality and culture - that's not necessarily true at all. I'm sure many Asians and Muslims have a lot of friends who are Caucasian, or from other races and cultures. I don't have any evidence to back it up, but I'm sure you don't have evidence to back up your massive generalisation on the nature of immigrants and socialisation. And isn't it possible that asian people don't make friends with caucasian people because many caucasians are incredibly racist towards these asian people? Maybe they've tried to socialise, but many Australians are racist and don't like asians, or something. Maybe that makes them cynical towards us, or maybe they just lose that opportunity to make friends with people from other cultures. As you have pointed out, it works both ways.

No we obviously can't force them to leave, what has happened in the past is done now. However your first sentence is why action must be taken as otherwise in the future Australia will simply be another province of China where most people born in Australia will be Chinese and their once 'different' way of life becomes the Australian way of life.

I think that would have to rely on a lot of economic and political struggles between the two nations. We can't really be a province of China unless China takes us over or buys us out, or if our government submits to China in some way. Maybe the majority of people here will be chinese, maybe not. Maybe we'll get enough people from other completely different nationalities and cultures to somewhat balance it out. Personally, I don't see an issue. Let this natural evolution of culture take hold. As long as they don't expect us all to learn Chinese and speak Chinese though, that part I understand.

I don't believe we can get particularly attached to our culture. In extreme cases this can lead to extreme nationalism and even war. But aside from that, cultures change. Nations change. I don't think our way of life is anything special. I wouldn't want to have to conform to any particular way of life - and I don't. I just live how I want to and fuck anyone who doesn't like it. I think Chinese immigrants will have a hard time turning us into a mini-China, as we are free to practice whatever way of life we want. So I disagree with you, but I understand your point.

I want to ask you a question though. If people are moving from China to Australia, why would they want to preserve their culture anyway? Wouldn't the logical conclusion be that they wanted to embrace and experience a different culture? Otherwise, many people will have stayed in China. Of course, this is different for everyone, but I think it's an interesting thought to consider.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Reductio ad Hitlerum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stealth Godwin

[Bored_of_HSC]

See my post above with regards to Chinese takeaway food. It shows how much Australia has changed in recent years.

Yep, and my point was that change is pretty much inherent. How can you try to defend a society and damn change when that very society was brought about through similar changes?

Predominantly, yes first generation immigrants. Many second generation immigrants do hold Australian values although the problem is those who don't and it is becoming a point of no return for Australia where if you are not Asian you will be in the minority.

I don't understand your problem then lol.

Of course it is our business.

Why?

I think it's becoming apparent this debate is (and it was probably obvious from the beggining) just about values.

[Omnidragon]

Nothing makes me happier than buying overseas properties and shares on such a high currency in anticipation of the red necks' uprising. Feel sorry for the rest of the common folk. Oh well adios. Retired.

[pinkdiva]

As Bored_Of_Hsc stated before, you people are referring to mostly first generation immigrants. Most of my Asian friends, are born in Australia and have no problem at all with English. They have no accent at all, can speak, read, and write English.