Selective vs normal school?

**hayabusaboston** · 22 Apr 2012, 1:15 PM

Hi I read about this a long time ago, but I cant remember how it went, what exactly is the benefit of going to a selective school rather than a normal one? I remember something about scaling, that at a selective school more people score higher and this pulls your marks up or something like that. Is that the case? That the more smart people you have in your grade, the more your marks are pulled up? THe essential question Im trying to ask is if it matters if you have more smart or more dumb people in the grade.

**deswa1** · 22 Apr 2012, 1:25 PM

Not in terms of marks because if you go to a lower ranked school, it is much easier to rank first etc. The system is designed to give the same student the same mark regardless of where you go. The advantage of selective schools though is the atmosphere. Everyone is more serious so you have better competition, you have people on a similar scale as you to share notes with etc.

**hayabusaboston** · 22 Apr 2012, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by deswa1

Not in terms of marks because if you go to a lower ranked school, it is much easier to rank first etc. The system is designed to give the same student the same mark regardless of where you go. The advantage of selective schools though is the atmosphere. Everyone is more serious so you have better competition, you have people on a similar scale as you to share notes with etc.

so thats the ONLY advantage?

**theind1996** · 22 Apr 2012, 1:29 PM

It's just that firstly:

- You have more motivation around you to succeed. Whether or not you appreciate this and work harder or succumb to the pressure is entirely up to you.
- Secondly, your internal mark depends on the performance of your cohort as well. Having a better cohort generally means it gives you a buffer in case you don't do as well as you like in the externals.

Therefore, AFAIK, it does help if you have a better cohort (which generally is a common aspect of selective schools). Therefore, it could be a non-selective public school beating a selective school, it does happen.

I'M NOT 100% SURE ON THIS, BETTER GET SOMEONE ELSE ON THIS.

**Ealdoon** · 22 Apr 2012, 1:48 PM

You are around people who care about their education.

**SunnyScience** · 22 Apr 2012, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ealdoon

You are around people who care about their education.

*more people

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**RealiseNothing** · 22 Apr 2012, 2:11 PM

Originally Posted by SunnyScience

*more people

^^^.

**Ealdoon** · 22 Apr 2012, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by SunnyScience

*more people

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More people* Either way, it's more people compared to a non-selective school.

**D94** · 22 Apr 2012, 3:27 PM

If you perform badly, whether in school or the HSC, you will perform badly. It doesn't matter if you go to a selective school or not, you still need to perform well in order to get good marks; no one "brings" your marks up unless you do well yourself. This is why students at lowly ranked, non-selective schools can still get ATARs of 98+.

**such_such** · 22 Apr 2012, 4:15 PM

So two people who have exactly the same marks from their internal + external, one from selective and the other a normal school, get the same ATAR at the end?

**Omnipotence** · 22 Apr 2012, 4:18 PM

Originally Posted by such_such

So two people who have exactly the same marks from their internal + external, one from selective and the other a normal school, get the same ATAR at the end?

Yes.

**deswa1** · 22 Apr 2012, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by such_such

So two people who have exactly the same marks from their internal + external, one from selective and the other a normal school, get the same ATAR at the end?

Of course. Another reason why all the high ATAR's are concentrated at selective schools is that all the top students go to schools like Ruse. Its not impossible for someone from a small comprehensive school to get 99.95, its just unlikely because if they were that good, they'd probably be at a selective school.

**someth1ng** · 1 May 2012, 10:36 PM

The other things is that at a comprehensive school, you need to be at the top to do well and if you slip even a little bit, it can have a large impact on you. At a selective, you don't 'need' to be at the top to do well and even if you're not, your cohort will most likely not have a large negative impact on you.

**SUPGUYS** · 1 May 2012, 10:50 PM

I have very limited knowledge on selective schools in the HSC world (I went to one in Victoria though), but I know peeps from James Ruse who do med with me. They have amazing academic results in that place (+ it's an agricultural school so they probs grow marijuana and stuff from what I have heard...). If I were in the HSC world, I'd try to get into that place!

As for the "benefit", I found that the main benefit is the fierce competition that makes you work harder (I suppose at old Rusey the marijuana would make this even more interesting).

Good luck!

**qwerty44** · 1 May 2012, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by D94

If you perform badly, whether in school or the HSC, you will perform badly. It doesn't matter if you go to a selective school or not, you still need to perform well in order to get good marks; no one "brings" your marks up unless you do well yourself. This is why students at lowly ranked, non-selective schools can still get ATARs of 98+.

+1

99.85 at a school not even ranked!

**Interdrama** · 4 May 2012, 1:44 AM

Originally Posted by SUPGUYS

I know peeps from James Ruse who do med with me.
As for the "benefit", I found that the main benefit is the fierce competition that makes you work harder

Basically you are right. The best part about going to a selective school is how bad you feel when you don't do well.
I believe Ruse is the only school in the state that gives you ranks in every subject at the half yearlies and yearlies every year from 7-12.
You may think that that's not a problem, that no one will find out but believe me by the second week of holidays everyone has some idea about where everyone came in every subject.
Because everyone knows where everyone else is at within the cohort, there's solid competition for the top places, and you also don't want to be known for being last in a subject (unless it's junior VA or PEHPD, in which case feel free to not care,) and that is how I found the competitive environment at Ruse helped me.

**enoilgam** · 4 May 2012, 1:50 AM

Originally Posted by D94

If you perform badly, whether in school or the HSC, you will perform badly. It doesn't matter if you go to a selective school or not, you still need to perform well in order to get good marks; no one "brings" your marks up unless you do well yourself. This is why students at lowly ranked, non-selective schools can still get ATARs of 98+.

This 100%. The biggest determinant of how a student will perform on the HSC is the student themselves.

**twinklegal19** · 4 May 2012, 1:58 AM

Originally Posted by someth1ng

The other things is that at a comprehensive school, you need to be at the top to do well and if you slip even a little bit, it can have a large impact on you. At a selective, you don't 'need' to be at the top to do well and even if you're not, your cohort will most likely not have a large negative impact on you.

That's quite true. I guess there's not as much pressure to be ranked first, and even if your rank is on the low side, there is less chance of it affecting you as much as if everyone does well in the external exams. It goes the same for comprehensive schools as well, however the cohort as a whole in a selective school would be on average far better in the HSC exams.

Your performance in the HSC still depends on the individual above all else though. The school and scaling of the subjects are outside factors that you can't control. The best thing to do is to maximize your raw mark in the external exams, let everything else take care of itself.