Not doing any HSC maths?

[theind1996]

Its a [I]post hoc ergo propter hoc[/I] argument. The argument basically goes like this "Most people who get 99+ do 4 unit and some sciences, therefore doing 4 unit and sciences will greatly enhance your chances of getting 99+". Its a bit of a logical fallacy to be honest.

plsexplain.

[Sy123]

Okay, I'd just like to give my opinion on the whole situation.
I agree with everyone who told you to drop maths- just drop it. No point in dwelling over something you obviously loath.

Another point- to all the conceited people who believe that only people who do the whole '4 Unit maths + science' can achieve over 99, you are so wrong.
I knew a guy who duxed Knox Grammar in 2010, with no maths or science (he got 99.85).
Oh and another guy from Kings in 2010 who got 99.85- no maths or science.
Oh and did I mention the 5 people from Moriah I know who achieved 99+ without maths or science?
Yeah, and that's just a handful of people I know/ have heard of.

HUMANITIES FOR DA WIN.

No one said that it is impossible to get a high mark without math or science

So a word of advice is to not call people concieted if you have not even read their posts properly.

And the true fact of it all is that it is easier to get 99.95 with math and sciences then not to, not only because of scaling, (and besides Economics scales better than the other sciences iirc), but because humanities and English all require you to give subjective response, and there are possibilities that might undermine your chances at getting the highest possible mark in humanities.

I dont think that getting doing 4u math and sciences 'boost' your chances, but rather they lower your chances of having your atar being lowered because of lack of subjectivity.

Note: I am not against humanities, I for example do Economics and I find it quite interesting.

[enoilgam]

plsexplain.

It means "after this, therefore because of this". From what I remember of philosophy (and The West Wing), its a logic fallacy that states since one event follows another, it must be caused by it (i.e. B came after A, so A must have caused B to occur). Same thing with this argument - many people who get 99+ do 4 unit and sciences. Therefore, doing 4 unit and sciences is the best way to get 99+.

[theind1996]

It means "after this, therefore because of this". From what I remember of philosophy (and The West Wing), its a logic fallacy that states since one event follows another, it must be caused by it (i.e. B came after A, so A must have caused B to occur). Same thing with this argument - many people who get 99+ do 4 unit and sciences. Therefore, doing 4 unit and sciences is the best way to get 99+.

Ahh, seems interesting. But yep, I get what you mean.

[honeycomb]

No one said that it is impossible to get a high mark without math or science

So a word of advice is to not call people concieted if you have not even read their posts properly.

And the true fact of it all is that it is easier to get 99.95 with math and sciences then not to, not only because of scaling, (and besides Economics scales better than the other sciences iirc), but because humanities and English all require you to give subjective response, and there are possibilities that might undermine your chances at getting the highest possible mark in humanities.

I dont think that getting doing 4u math and sciences 'boost' your chances, but rather they lower your chances of having your atar being lowered because of lack of subjectivity.

Note: I am not against humanities, I for example do Economics and I find it quite interesting.

I did read everyone's posts properly, and a some of them told the Humanities girl to keep Maths because it's going to be difficult to get a high ATAR without it, which is why I'm saying that a lot of people do get good ATAR's without that particular combination.
And I also do know people who are extremely conceited and look down on me because I don't do any sciences, and because I'm failing maths... not saying EVERYONE does, but a lot of people do.

[theind1996]

I did read everyone's posts properly, and a some of them told the Humanities girl to keep Maths because it's going to be difficult to get a high ATAR without it, which is why I'm saying that a lot of people do get good ATAR's without that particular combination.
And I also do know people who are extremely conceited and look down on me because I don't do any sciences, and because I'm failing maths... not saying EVERYONE does, but a lot of people do.

Lol mate just because people are looking down upon you doesn't mean that you should start calling them conceited.

"Difficult" IS NOT EQUAL TO "impossible". No one said impossible.

And a word of advice, if you don't want people looking down/attacking you for your poor maths marks, why in the world would you put them in the signature. You're obviously not proud of the marks...

A lot of people may get 99+ with humanities, but this is a small number compared to those who do it with 4u maths and phys/chem/eco.

[SayWut]

It means "after this, therefore because of this". From what I remember of philosophy (and The West Wing), its a logic fallacy that states since one event follows another, it must be caused by it (i.e. B came after A, so A must have caused B to occur). Same thing with this argument - many people who get 99+ do 4 unit and sciences. Therefore, doing 4 unit and sciences is the best way to get 99+.

Be practical and just do whatever combo you believe will give you the highest ATAR. There's plenty of time for you to "do what you love" AFTER you get into your desired university course.

[iSplicer]

Be practical and just do whatever combo you believe will give you the highest ATAR. There's plenty of time for you to "do what you love" AFTER you get into your desired university course.

+1, that's my take on the HSC, but apparently no one seems to agree. Fair enough!

[AAEldar]

+1, that's my take on the HSC, but apparently no one seems to agree. Fair enough!

Because for many people the highest ATAR isn't what they want. They just want it high enough to get into uni, if they even go to uni.

There was no point in me doing all the highest scaling subjects just because I wanted a high ATAR (granted I did a couple, but because I wanted to), because I didn't need it that high.

[Sy123]

Because for many people the highest ATAR isn't what they want. They just want it high enough to get into uni, if they even go to uni.

There was no point in me doing all the highest scaling subjects just because I wanted a high ATAR (granted I did a couple, but because I wanted to), because I didn't need it that high.

But, people can change their minds quite easily, and if you have a high ATAR, you are more open to more courses. So for example, you originally since year 11 wanted to do Biotechnology at UNSW (example). However 2 weeks before the trials, you have found how cool it would be to be a Lawyer or a Pilot . So then your mind changes, that you want to be a Lawyer instead of doing Biotechnology. The ATAR you need to get into Law is significantly higher than what you need for Biotechnology, and hence you need to meet the demand of doing a higher tier ATAR. Hence like iSplicer has given an example of, in that he had learnt Java/Python and read books on geography in his spare time, while doing high scaling subjects.

Now before I go on, you must know that I am NOT saying it is impossible to get a high atar with humanities. But as agreed, it can be easier for some people to get a higher ATAR with the 4U and Science combo.

Now, if you do these subjects and you do all of the stuff you want to in your free time, then you end up having a better chance at a really high ATAR, which OPENS more options for you to pick.

Moreover, if you want to get into a course with a 90 ATAR 2 weeks before your trials, and you do Food Tech and Business because you originally had this desire to open a restaurant once you left school and you would use your HSC entrepreneurial skills. You then realise that it will be really hard to pull that off, and its better to do Commerce or Economics at Uni, which you need 2U math for, but since at y11 you had high hopes for a restaurant you picked General Math instead (to help set out prices and data and stuff).

These are examples, but they really do illustrate the value of doing higher scaling subjects. Sure not everyone can do 4U math, but if someone puts the effort into it and really knuckles down on it, then high scaling subjects can help you out in the future. (Im not saying that your HSC will decide your future, but no one can deny that its better to get 99.95 do Comb Med for 7 years, than do Medical Science and sit the Gamsat then do Medicine, other similar examples as wel.)

[AAEldar]

I think you are definitely over estimating the abilities and particularly the motivation of kids doing the HSC.

[Leffife]

If you aren't good at maths then it's better to drop it. In my opinion, if english wasn't compulsory I would have already dropped it. My understanding is that if you don't get over 90%+ in the tests unless it's a really hard test (i.e. usually selective school one) then you better drop it. Good luck, I hope you make the right decision. MATHS FTW

[alstah]

Yes, you can definitely get 97+ with those subjects.

I did: Eng Ext 1, Legal, Ancient, SOR I and 3u Maths and I got over 99 and now I'm studying Law at USyd.

Good luck with being a humanitarian lawyer

[nifkeh]

Some person who got 99.95 where the only subjects that counted were humanities. It's 100x easier to be 'just-the-next-99.95er-who-did-4u-maths-and-science' than wendybird.

The rubbish that she (and others) sprout about "do whatever you like, ahhhhh isn't life beautiful" is ridiculous. Doing humanities makes it insanely harder to get a high ATAR. This is a FACT. wendybird was an absolute genius in the humanities who happened to nail it (full credit and congratulations to her) but the other 99.99% of sheep who thought that a pure humanities combination would get then a .95 didn't. The girl in my grade who was an absolute legend in the humanities (well read, articulate, all-round beast), who also happened to top HSC English, didn't get into Law straight after school, whilst randoms who 'just' did 4u and did 'okay' in it happened to secure a place. This is tragic, it is. But it's how the HSC works and you unfortunately have to play the game.

But if you're aiming for 97, you have nothing to worry about. Good luck OP!

any subject needs effort put in it, obviously she seems like she can't be bothered taking up maths. 4u needs a bit of thinking, not everyone can do it without any effort. so I'd say there's no point doing it if you a) aren't bothered to devote independent study to it every week and b) going to get less than 50% in it. Because apparently the scaling for it is worse every year because the majority of those taking the course score over the 'average' mean of 60 so the adjustment of the marks to the bell curve would scale it down a bit in addition to the high scaling of it already.

and plus getting 30% and under in 4 unit - maybe it would be best to drop the course instead because it won't be boosting your atar that way. more like reducing it. not everyone is suited for 4u maths obviously lol, you can't expect everyone in the state to go like ' I wanna boost my atar and I'm getting 50% average in all my courses, doing 4 unit maths should do the trick right'

Also there isn't any point doing 4 unit 'because it sounds good' for a job interview or application for uni or it scales up your atar, because if you're doing med, atar is only 1/3 of the process, you still need for pass your umat and interview. And for law, it isn't the end of the world if you get under the atar, you just need to find another pathway. so do what you likeand what suits you. your best rankings in your best courses are calculated for atar not like the scaled up subjects are

[xamineO]

I'm not doing any maths thank-god.
And it's like heaven.
Maths is like the worse, no offence to those maths lovers.

[asianese]

Be practical and just do whatever combo you believe will give you the highest ATAR. There's plenty of time for you to "do what you love" AFTER you get into your desired university course.

Words of my head maths teacher.

This girl who was aiming for law Usyd 99.7 just missed out (0.2) - reason, Legal (Other subjects ENA (top 5) MX1 (top), MX2(top), ECO(top)) On the other hand another girl doing 3U ENA (topping both) M2U, MX1 (not topping), 3U French (topped both) and Physics managed a 99.9 - none of her subjects scaled atrociously. Though, she's not doing law but at unsw getting rich (scholarships).

Choose subjects which you can excel at and are relatively good scaling!! (If you need a really high atar)

[RachaelS]

Yes, you can definitely get 97+ with those subjects.

I did: Eng Ext 1, Legal, Ancient, SOR I and 3u Maths and I got over 99 and now I'm studying Law at USyd.

Good luck with being a humanitarian lawyer

Bachelor of Arts/Laws? I was considering doing the exact same (if I get the marks that is), only not at USyd as I highly doubt I'll get the necessary mark.

[annieeeex]

DO MATHS!!!
you can always improve. but if you can't cope with it then drop it in year 12. i love maths LOL

[krnofdrg]

You don't need 97 ATAR for a law degree.

I got 91 ATAR and that was enough for me to get into Comm/Law at Macq University mid year entry.

UWS offers law at low 90's (Bonus points), Notre Dame, University of New England and so many universities offer a law degree at mid 80's to low 90's.

[lolcakes52]

If your smart aim for:

3 unit english
4 unit maths

and two of the following:

chemistry
physics
economics

That is how you get a high atar with relatively low work.

The real question is whether you want to risk small errors jeopardising your future but choosing subjects which scale poorly or if you believe you can struggle through the above subjects and have a near guaranteed high atar. Only if your capable, don't do something if you have to do more than 15 hours of study a week, in total.

[iSplicer]

If your smart aim for:

3 unit english
4 unit maths

and two of the following:

chemistry
physics
economics

That is how you get a high atar with relatively low work.

The real question is whether you want to risk small errors jeopardising your future but choosing subjects which scale poorly or if you believe you can struggle through the above subjects and have a near guaranteed high atar. Only if your capable, don't do something if you have to do more than 15 hours of study a week, in total.

+1. Not sure about 'low work', though!

[enoilgam]

The real question is whether you want to risk small errors jeopardising your future but choosing subjects which scale poorly or if you believe you can struggle through the above subjects and have a near guaranteed high atar. Only if your capable, don't do something if you have to do more than 15 hours of study a week, in total.

a) Those subjects arent the only subjects which scale well
b) In the 90's, the scaling of most subjects converges. I.e. there is a bigger difference in scaling between an 80 in legal and physics than a 90 in both those subjects.
c) If you arent good at those subjects, they arent going to be much use. If you get a 90 in visual arts it will scale better than an 80 in physics. So if you are great at VA and useless at science subjects, your better off with VA.
d) Many people do well without those subjects - Alstah who posted just a short while a go got 99.7 without a super high scaling subject combo and he isnt alone.

Look, I rarely become so narrow minded, but on this issue I am fairly adamant. You want a good ATAR you play towards your strengths. Yes, scaling should be a consideration if you want a very high ATAR, but a high scaling subject combo wont get you anywhere if you arent good at them. Anyone truly in the know about the HSC will tell you the same thing.

EDIT: Just for clarification, I am not ignoring the impact of scaling. Obviously, if you want an ATAR of 99+ and your subject combination is like Standard english, General Maths, PDHPE, CAFS and Visual arts then you are not putting yourself on the right path, even if you are really good in all these subjects. I am just against the whole idea that extensions, sciences and economics and the best way to get a high ATAR and that ALL people aiming for a high ATAR should do them regardless of their personal strengths. Whilst they dont scale as well, many humanities subjects (the histories, legal, geography and even SOR) can also give you a very good ATAR. People with high aims have no reason to fear these subjects or avoid them especially if they have talent in them.

Lastly, the lower your ATAR aim the less you need to consider scaling. I would say if your aiming for anything under 85-90, you really dont need to consider scaling at all

[avro]

I know someone who received 99.7 with Ext 2 English, Earth & Environmental Science, Studies of Religion 2 and Economics. Her 2 unit Maths mark was not included in her ATAR.

[ushnakhalid]

im not going to do maths and from the advice ive been given, and all the research ive done, ive gathered that you should just do subjects you enjoy, because taking up things you may be OKAY at but HATE is going to make your hsc year stressful as hell!