Advanced English - what's with the time constraints? (1 Viewer)

[jdennis]

I have my second assessment task for Advanced English on Thursday. It's going to be an essay, and I'm pretty much prepared in terms of content, quotes etc. but I'm worried I'm not going to be able to get it all down in the 50 minutes specified. The teachers want 6 or 7 pages.

It just seems wrong to me that one of the biggest challenges with Advanced English is your writing speed. Assessments are supposed to give you an opportunity to show what you know about something, but this is really hard if you can't write fast enough to get the ideas out of your head and onto paper. It just seems majorly flawed to me.

Please don't say: "Get over it"/"It was harder in my day"/"What are you whinging about that's easy" etc. I know there's nothing I can do about it, but I'm just interested to see what people think about whether it should be the case that time constraints are so tight.

 

[dim-sims]

Holy crap most of the English teachers at my school only expect us to spit out 4-5 pages (+ our lined paper is pretty wide).

My teacher told me that he's seen students tape batteries onto their pens in order to strengthen their hand and thus improve writing speed.

Nevertheless back to point: personally I think 50 minutes is a reasonable amount time for one essay. For paper 2 in the HSC it's three essays in two hours (40 minutes per essay) so it's an even tighter time constraint. But eh, like you said, there's not much you can do about it.

 

[madharris]

Well just saying, 6/7 pages is relative in terms of your hand writing
I could write ~1000 words onto 2 exercises book pages and 3 hsc booklet pages whereas some others could potentially take up 10 hsc booklet pages to write 1000 words.

But yeah, all you have to do is practice so you can build up the muscles in your hand.
This helps your writing speed as well as helps to reduce the pain in your hand whilst writing

(I did the battery thing for a month before the HSC, and in my opinion it worked)

 

[rumbleroar]

I just had my English Advanced assessment today lol!

tbh you're going to surprise yourself...I'm typically super slow but I managed to churn out 6 and a bit pages for my essay today. If you need practice, just practice writing quickly and articulating your thoughts well enough so it gets on paper concisely. At the end of the day, they're going to look at the quality of your work, not much you wrote.

 

[iBibah]

also if your essay is memorised you actually write faster.

inb4memorisationdebate

 

[jdennis]

also if your essay is memorised you actually write faster.

inb4memorisationdebate

lol what have you started?

tbh you're going to surprise yourself...I'm typically super slow but I managed to churn out 6 and a bit pages for my essay today. If you need practice, just practice writing quickly and articulating your thoughts well enough so it gets on paper concisely. At the end of the day, they're going to look at the quality of your work, not much you wrote.

That's true actually, I have surprised myself in the past with how quickly I can write in an exam. I guess it's just practice... I'm just a bit annoyed really that it has to be an issue when surely an essay should be an opportunity for us to show what we know not an endurance event in hand strength?

 

[nerdasdasd]

also if your essay is memorised you actually write faster.

inb4memorisationdebate

Agreed.

If u memorise, then you don't need to waste time thinking of how to construct the essay properly....

 

[Mdyeow]

m8

it's a trap

lol what have you started?

That's true actually, I have surprised myself in the past with how quickly I can write in an exam. I guess it's just practice... I'm just a bit annoyed really that it has to be an issue when surely an essay should be an opportunity for us to show what we know not an endurance event in hand strength?

I was going to say Get Over It but I entirely agree with you. I guess the thing is that students see exams differently from the education system (and by that I don't mean teachers - many of whom would likely agree with us). We want to demonstrate that we understand things, can wield arguments that are compelling, while they want to process and grade candidates in as cost-effective a manner possible. So in a sense you're dealing with conflicting objectives between both parties.

I had significant issues with this too until I started training for endurance and speed. I didn't do the Rock Lee battery method (am very conscious of the weighting of my pens, yes that sounds lame), but I developed a very rigorous training schedule which basically saw me writing an essay under time every day for about a month. I find this worked better because you're focusing on both your stamina/speed AND the acuity of your arguments/evidence under pressure. At the start I had trouble finishing half an essay in 40 minutes; by the end I was clocking 35mins for a full essay regularly.

Agreed.

If u memorise, then you don't need to waste time thinking of how to construct the essay properly....

Problem? #inb4lynching

In all honesty, I'm very glad so many people still believe in writing essays despite the cynicism about the syllabus and pre-prepared responses.

 

[nerdasdasd]

it's a trap



I was going to say Get Over It but I entirely agree with you. I guess the thing is that students see exams differently from the education system (and by that I don't mean teachers - many of whom would likely agree with us). We want to demonstrate that we understand things, can wield arguments that are compelling, while they want to process and grade candidates in as cost-effective a manner possible. So in a sense you're dealing with conflicting objectives between both parties.

I had significant issues with this too until I started training for endurance and speed. I didn't do the Rock Lee battery method (am very conscious of the weighting of my pens, yes that sounds lame), but I developed a very rigorous training schedule which basically saw me writing an essay under time every day for about a month. I find this worked better because you're focusing on both your stamina/speed AND the acuity of your arguments/evidence under pressure. At the start I had trouble finishing half an essay in 40 minutes; by the end I was clocking 35mins for a full essay regularly.




Problem? #inb4lynching

In all honesty, I'm very glad so many people still believe in writing essays despite the cynicism about the syllabus and pre-prepared responses.

No problem.

 

[jdennis]

I was going to say Get Over It but I entirely agree with you. I guess the thing is that students see exams differently from the education system (and by that I don't mean teachers - many of whom would likely agree with us). We want to demonstrate that we understand things, can wield arguments that are compelling, while they want to process and grade candidates in as cost-effective a manner possible. So in a sense you're dealing with conflicting objectives between both parties.

I had significant issues with this too until I started training for endurance and speed. I didn't do the Rock Lee battery method (am very conscious of the weighting of my pens, yes that sounds lame), but I developed a very rigorous training schedule which basically saw me writing an essay under time every day for about a month. I find this worked better because you're focusing on both your stamina/speed AND the acuity of your arguments/evidence under pressure. At the start I had trouble finishing half an essay in 40 minutes; by the end I was clocking 35mins for a full essay regularly.

Well said. Yeah I never really considered that the objective of the education system wasn't... education. I think that probably explains a lot of things, not only this! I might try your method for my mid course exams next term - it's a bit late for tomorrow's assessment!

 

[obliviousninja]

Theres always one snake that uses like 20 writing books to intimidate everyone else. Yup thats me

 

[Queenroot]

Wait, how is 50 minutes impossible? That's plenty of time

 

[matchalolz]

last year i could only do max 3 full lined pages in 40 minutes whereas some of my friends were managing 4 :/ maybe it was becoz i sat there for 5 mins thinking... idk i guess u should just have all ur ideas really organised and know all the content well. srsly condense ur essay coz sometimes even if u write less u can still get good marks. i wrote 2.5 pages and got full marks once because i didn't waste any of my sentences bullshitting. just make every word count and build up ur hand muscles with batteries

 

[tumtoom]

Wow. English gets so more ... complicated in senior school aye.
Last year I was told the time limit was there to stop students spewing info. on the page. Especially as in English its all about the structure and analytical aspects of a few chosen areas etc. more so than how much you can say about everything... which is what the time restraint helps do. Keeps you focused to do one amazing essay focussing on one topic (or e.g. a few examples from a prescribed text) rather than rewrite the text its supposedly about and not actually do any analysing.

 

[FireRunning]

I think the time constraints and page expectations in HSC English really force students to memorise and regurgitate generic prepared essays. That's why I am of the opinion that the HSC English Exam is really a memory and speed writing test.

 

[Mdyeow]

I think the time constraints and page expectations in HSC English really force students to memorise and regurgitate generic prepared essays. That's why I am of the opinion that the HSC English Exam is really a memory and speed writing test.

#notsureiftrolling

last year i could only do max 3 full lined pages in 40 minutes whereas some of my friends were managing 4 :/ maybe it was becoz i sat there for 5 mins thinking... idk i guess u should just have all ur ideas really organised and know all the content well. srsly condense ur essay coz sometimes even if u write less u can still get good marks. i wrote 2.5 pages and got full marks once because i didn't waste any of my sentences bullshitting. just make every word count and build up ur hand muscles with batteries

A+ advice although not sure y u typ lik dis

Theres always one snake that uses like 20 writing books to intimidate everyone else. Yup thats me

YOUUUUUUUUUU I had a friend who did this, he'd write 3 booklets and I'd write 3 pages.

Sometimes we would be in the same row and I always pitied the guy in between us not knowing who to pace against

 

[jdennis]

If you were to think about it more, it probably is not practical for these assessments/examinations to be done in an extended period of time, since it might lead to students regurgitating information further and being able to mould their memorised essays to the question. Quicker times mean more pressure, and more pressure means you are obliged to come up with your own original thoughts as you do not have the time to do anything otherwise

I'm sorry I just completely disagree with you. In my view students moulding their essays to the question, whether memorised or not, is the entire point of the exam, and to suggest that this should be stamped out just seems crazy. Suggesting that students need to come up with everything they write in the actual exam is akin to suggesting students should not be allowed to prepare material for English exams.

Wait, how is 50 minutes impossible? That's plenty of time

Did you even read the end of my first post?

Please don't say: ... "What are you whinging about that's easy"

 

[Queenroot]

Did you even read the end of my first post?

Yeah of course. 50 minutes is quite normal imo, 40 minutes, not so much, but 50 minutes is not a constraint, it's plenty of time to write 6 pages at least.

 

[jdennis]

Yeah of course. 50 minutes is quite normal imo, 40 minutes, not so much, but 50 minutes is not a constraint, it's plenty of time to write 6 pages at least.

Well, I deeply regret not being as good as you, but at this stage in the year, but I can't write 6 pages in 50 minutes. It really wasn't the point of the post for people to tell me my writing speed isn't good enough - what you have said is exactly what I am arguing against. I don't mean to be offensive but I don't think your comment is very helpful.

The problem is you are thinking in terms of what students want rather than what teachers/markers want. It is clear in answering the question of time restraints that you must consider the perspective of teachers/markers. You asked why time restraints have been created in terms of Advanced/Extension English essays, I gave you the answer. Clearly it is not to encourage memorised essays, because teachers/markers do not want this.

With that said, I am not attempting to propagate the notion that all students can do as what teachers/markers expect them to do, since evidently this is not true. It is simply what teachers/markers hope can be achieved, hence the different bands when it comes to marks. And it is not about whether students should be allowed to prepare material, as regardless of time restraints, students still have choice when it comes to deciding how to prepare. Students can either choose to memorise essays or practice them.

Of course, you may then argue that the education system when it comes to Advanced/Extension English is faulty in that it does not realistically cater for all students. I would agree with you. But there is little we can change.

I think I understand a bit more what you are trying to say, but I still think your argument doesn't really explain the issue correctly. You seem to suggest that time constraints are there to discourage memorised essays, but then you say that students can "choose to memorise essays" in order to prepare. So either the idea behind your reasoning is not working, since students are still memorising essays before exams, or you have contradicted yourself by encouraging and discouraging memorisation in the same post.

Either way, I think a memorised essay still demonstrates the student's knowledge of a text, and if they can relate it to the question then they deserve to get good marks. I don't think that can really be disputed. If you present a good argument with close reference to the text that answers the question, memorised or not, it deserves to be rewarded. In my view, just because some students feel more comfortable preparing this way does not mean they are less worthy of good results than others who are able to think on their feet to a greater extent.

 

[Queenroot]

Well, I deeply regret not being as good as you, but at this stage in the year, but I can't write 6 pages in 50 minutes. It really wasn't the point of the post for people to tell me my writing speed isn't good enough - what you have said is exactly what I am arguing against. I don't mean to be offensive but I don't think your comment is very helpful.

I'm not telling you that you're slow. I'm not telling you to write 6 pages either, it depends on your handwriting and quality > quantity. But I used to complain about the same thing, but as life goes on, time constraints get worse, so it's best to learn now.